MCU Thunderbolts

[The Cool Thatguy]

The thing is, Walker only failed as Captain America, he didn't get to where he was by not being able to lead people. He failed at the one job he wasn't suited for.

Yelena on the other hand was raised by the Red Room and spent the majority of her time as a brainwashed superspy/assassin and has the least leadership experience but this is the one that can be trusted? The one who is going to keep Zemo, Blonsky and Walker in line?

I hope she has the trigger to the explosive neck collars near, and even then I still don't think it's going to be enough.

He failed, first time out, in a field the Thunderbolts will be expected to perform.

Yelena has a successful career as a merc, and was part of the team who brought down the Red Room. Thus far, she's got a better track record than Walker

[Omega Alpha]

That could work, as long as they avoided that problem of the X-Men movies with Mystique, where the charisma of the one actor is supposed to carry the movie. Not that an MCU movie would be likely to make such a mistake, just saying.

Haven't read the whole thread, but wouldn't Barton make the most sense for leader? Hawkeye led the comics Thunderbolts in some early incarnations, didn't he? Or even if not -- with the Avengers gone, he has both is own personal redemption for all the people he assassinated, and the implied danger of a team of unstable superhumans being sent in the place of the Avengers. Would make sense that he'd be guilted into leading/training a Thunderbolts team.


Edit: Ah, I see, Yelena actually will be leading the team. Yeah, if the confirmed members so far are her, Blonsky, Walker or Zemo as field leader? She probably would be the one you could rely on best to both corral the various personalities/actions of their teammates, and bother with actually trying to stick with the plans/goals you sent them there for.

Or just again, can definitely see how that could work. I don't think any of the others seems like a better choice, honestly.

The person building this Thunderbolts team already sent Yelena to kill Hawkeye for...reasons?

[The Cool Thatguy]

The person building this Thunderbolts team already sent Yelena to kill Hawkeye for...reasons?

Probably to keep a monopoly on people who can be on a world saving team.

Other than Rhodey, he's the only other person the government would trust to build a super team around. He's trained, experienced and a known asset and is more comfortable doing dirty work than say, Sam or Rhodes.

Take him out, and she has a perfect replacement in the form of Yelena

[Tofali]

They all are unqualified as leaders because Val will be the one giving them their missions I'm guessing and they'll just be executing those orders.

[HollowSage]

They all are unqualified as leaders because Val will be the one giving them their missions I'm guessing and they'll just be executing those orders.

Val probably won’t be out in the field and plans can change as soon as contact is made with an enemy force so the team will still need a leader calling the shots on the ground.

[Frontier]

I like Yelena as leader simply because Pugh's version of the character is probably one of the best characters to come out in the MCU in a long time. She's amazing and they should play to that like they did with RDJ and Iron Man

I feel like her youth and personality might seem kind of out of place in this kind of group, but I could be wrong.

He failed, first time out, in a field the Thunderbolts will be expected to perform.

Yelena has a successful career as a merc, and was part of the team who brought down the Red Room. Thus far, she's got a better track record than Walker

Granted, Natasha lead that mission, but it seems like she was leading the reformed Widows into freeing other Widows.

The person building this Thunderbolts team already sent Yelena to kill Hawkeye for...reasons?

Didn't it seem like Kingpin paid her to do it?

[Omega Alpha]

I feel like her youth and personality might seem kind of out of place in this kind of group, but I could be wrong.

That actually makes her a perfect fit narrative wise, but not for the leadership role

I
Didn't it seem like Kingpin paid her to do it?

I don't remember that (it's been a while since I've seen it), and also Kingpin didn't knew Clint was Ronin.

[j9ac9k]

Didn't it seem like Kingpin paid her to do it?

Kate's mom and Val sent Yalena. I read that the Hawkeye writers didn't even know about the BW after-credits scene so I bet we won't know for sure until they bother explaining it, but I can imagine Kate's mom might know Val, and seeing the connection thought she could pretend to be doing Yalena a favor by letting her "avenge" her sister or something.

[Omega Alpha]

Kate's mom and Val sent Yalena. I read that the Hawkeye writers didn't even know about the BW after-credits scene so I bet we won't know for sure until they bother explaining it, but I can imagine Kate's mom might know Val, and seeing the connection thought she could pretend to be doing Yalena a favor by letting her "avenge" her sister or something.

That doesn't make too much sense to be honest- first, because I strongly doubt Val genuinely believed Clint murdered Natasha. Second, because the favor would likely end with either her asset, Yelena, dead, or Clint dead and a lot of angry superheroes in a team literally named after revenge. The entire reason the Red Room left Natasha alone was for fear of Thor or Hulk retaliating.

Val's plan makes the less sense the more I think about it, to be honest.

[j9ac9k]

Val's plan makes the less sense the more I think about it, to be honest.

Yeah, between the BW endscene and the Hawkeye show, I don't think they really had a plan, which is why I'm hoping for a better explanation the next time we see them.

Walker would be the most likely candidate for leadership if not for the fact that he failed so spectacularly when given the chance. Blonsky and especially Zemo can’t be trusted.

Let's not forget Zemo's met Walker. If you want to factor in "willingness to be lead by," Zemo saw Walker stomp into a situation rashly, had to be talked down by his friend, saw him lose his patience and jeopardize the mission, saw him get whupped by the Dora Milaje after not being able to handle it diplomatically, then let's not forget: Zemo hates the idea of super soldiers and that anyone who wants to be one is a "supremacist." Zemo detroyed those vials the second he saw them, Walker took one for himself. I think Zemo would have a hard time following Walker in any capacity.

[Frontier]

Let's not forget Zemo's met Walker. If you want to factor in "willingness to be lead by," Zemo saw Walker stomp into a situation rashly, had to be talked down by his friend, saw him lose his patience and jeopardize the mission, saw him get whupped by the Dora Milaje after not being able to handle it diplomatically, then let's not forget: Zemo hates the idea of super soldiers and that anyone who wants to be one is a "supremacist." Zemo detroyed those vials the second he saw them, Walker took one for himself. I think Zemo would have a hard time following Walker in any capacity.

Zemo would probably want Walker dead once he finds out Walker took the Super Soldier serum.

[j9ac9k]

Zemo would probably want Walker dead once he finds out Walker took the Super Soldier serum.

We all suspect Zemo would have his own agenda - and that might be it. It'd be in keeping with his character, but tbh, not too complicated for a Marvel movie and with it being a team movie as well, they probably wouldn't want to overly-complicate the plot with too many characters having their own complicated plots. Simply waiting to see when/if Zemo will kill Walker isn't a bad B or C plot to me. (partly because I honestly would enjoy seeing Zemo kill Walker, but that's just me )

[phonogram12]

We all suspect Zemo would have his own agenda - and that might be it. It'd be in keeping with his character, but tbh, not too complicated for a Marvel movie and with it being a team movie as well, they probably wouldn't want to overly-complicate the plot with too many characters having their own complicated plots. Simply waiting to see when/if Zemo will kill Walker isn't a bad B or C plot to me. (partly because I honestly would enjoy seeing Zemo kill Walker, but that's just me )

Walker did begin to win me over by the end of F&TWS, but it's hard to forget the entitlement that guy had. Despite the privilege he was born into, Zemo's only real fault is his white hot hatred of superhumans.

And at least he's fun lol

[Frontier]

Walker did begin to win me over by the end of F&TWS, but it's hard to forget the entitlement that guy had. Despite the privilege he was born into, Zemo's only real fault is his white hot hatred of superhumans.

And at least he's fun lol

I think Walker had a sense of entitlement but I feel like his sense of duty, however warped, was stronger.

Zemo is basically "Zemo, The Super-powered Butcher." Or at least he wants to be.

[phonogram12]

I think Walker had a sense of entitlement but I feel like his sense of duty, however warped, was stronger.

I think it was up until he started feeling inadequate and insecure about his role when no one was taking him seriously as he felt people should be taking him just because the government gave him Steve's old name. I also don't think anyone really expected him to be as physically capable as Steve was except for him. He didn't understand his limits (not to mention the capabilities of Wakandan warriors) and when that came to bite him in the ass, he made the disastrous decision to take the SSS.

Zemo is basically "Zemo, The Super-powered Butcher." Or at least he wants to be.

And I think that's his appeal. He may be sneaky and manipulative, but he doesn't pretend to be anything that he isn't. He knows his limits (admitting in CW that he knew there was no way he could take the Avengers head on) and does his best to work around them. In a way, that makes him an even better archenemy for Walker than Rogers.