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Thread: Sharon Carter

  1. #16
    Mighty Member responsarbre's Avatar
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    I do love Sharon, and I'm actually really disappointed that they included her in the movies just to give the short end of the stick (especially when they absolutely nailed the casting — Emily VanCamp was a perfect choice for Sharon in so many ways, IMO.) Like capandkirby said, she suffered like the rest of Cap's supporting cast the second that Civil War was chosen as the third Cap movie (or at least, the second when RDJ demanded a bigger role for Tony Stark in the plot as a condition of his signing). Bucky post-Winter Soldier barely got his personality or motivation fleshed out beyond "listless brainwashing victim", Sam was so wasted that a lot of the people watching Infinity War barely remembered him there, and poor Sharon's role felt like an afterthought.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamatty View Post
    Yeah, and what's worse, Sharon herself rarely gets to actually feel about anything that happens to her. She always has to be emotionally strong, never allowed to be vulnerable. Just the standard Strong Female Character. Coates had her show more vulnerability in one scene in the first issue of his Captain America run than any other writer has let her show in decades. She deserves a chance to just, like, cry.
    I would kind of disagree. Though she did come off as really cold and jaded, I feel like her return in Operation: Rebirth was notable for framing her experience in terms of her perspective, her frustration, and her real trauma, instead of being framed as Steve getting his *OneTrueLove* back as some kind of prize. It wasn't vulnerable exactly, but it was a convincing show of her POV and her real feelings at the time. I would actually say that Waid does a good job with Sharon's voice in general.

    As for being given the space to feel vulnerable, I think that Brubaker post-Civil War through Reborn did give Sharon a couple of moments where she was wallowing in her feelings (or maybe he just alluded to it?). Though obviously Brubaker's handling of Sharon has its ups and downs ...

    It is crazy that it took until Coates for Sharon to be given a convincing reaction to everything that's even happened since Remender's run, though. What's the deal with that? I really hope he does her justice.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    I don't really buy that the act of pining adds to a character's intrigue. Some of my all-time favorite Cap storylines happened during a time when Steve was either happily coupled or single but not really over-dramatizing the pining (The Captain/John Walker storyline came after a break-up with Bernie, but I wouldn't call Steve pining, especially as he and Bernie remained friends and he even called her for advice on how to deal with the government when they gave him the ultimatum). Waid's recent short run is a perfect example that Steve can do just fine on his own without relationship drama needed to add to the story. And I wouldn't call Peggy a "great love" (like I said, she flat-out divorced him because becoming an astronaut wasn't ambitious enough on his part for her, because, you know, being an astronaut is such a low-ball profession). That said, I do admit I'm biased against her, I read the House of M tie-in well before CA: The First Avenger came out so it was difficult to warm to her, even in the films.

    Honestly, Steve is a pretty young guy, if you don't count the time in the ice, and the thought of a thirty-something year old otherwise healthy guy wasting the rest of his life pining because he couldn't be with one girl is just silly. Part of the inspiration inherent in Steve is that despite being a Man Out of Time™ - aka the world's most extreme case of culture shock and survivor's guilt - he did adapt and even thrived in his new environment. Steve's books have lucked out because most of his love interests have been great. At least they haven't tried to kill him and steal or sabotage his company secrets the way some of Tony's love interests have. A modernized, 21st century girlfriend like Sharon or Rachel just makes sense, because they are trained combatants who can hold their own and thus fit into Steve's world. I'd much rather see Steve with Sharon or Rachel, no matter who they're related to, than pining. Marvel overdoes the pining with their hero-against-hero drama, it gets old.

    And honestly, unless you're Jessica Jones and Luke Cage, who are still happily married as far as I know (I don't count Sue and Reed because Sue did cheat and they did separate at one point), relationships are really the least of a superhero's concerns. With their life-style if you didn't know how to move on and live your life when someone close to you dies, you'd be incapacitated.

    I guess this is my long way of saying, ugh, pining, no thanks. There is nothing wrong with Sharon. The problem with the films is that Civil War should have never been made to be part of the Cap trilogy, it should have been an Avengers film. I can think of a dozen actual Cap storylines, just off the top of my head, that would have been better representation of not just Steve, but also his supporting cast of characters: Bucky, Sam AND Sharon. Hell, I would have loved to have seen Dennis Dunphy or Jack Monroe, or Rachel, or John Walker, or hell, even William Burnside in the MCU, too. Ah, what might have been.

    Maria Hill was all Bendis. Ugh.
    I was speaking of movies. Comics Peggy was a pale shade of comics Sharon. I was also speaking of Movie Pining Steve (2-5 hours is way easier to take than 40 years).

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    I was speaking of movies. Comics Peggy was a pale shade of comics Sharon. I was also speaking of Movie Pining Steve (2-5 hours is way easier to take than 40 years).
    Even in the movies Steve is far too young of a character to waste his life pining. He's what, early 30's, most? I know a lot of people seem to think that Steve will be killed in the next film (I'm not entirely sure of that, myself, I remember when Downey was renegotiating his contract) and if the speculation is true, and he does die, if that poor boy dies a frickin virgin that's just tragic.

  4. #19
    Spectacular Member Hephoenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    Sharon is the epitome of the woman in the refrigerator trope and its unfortunate because, as you said, she's a highly skilled agent. But I mean, Waid brought her back with the story that she had been left for dead by SHIELD in hostile territory. Brubaker had her brainwashed, abducted, and tortured by Red Skull, stabbed by Skull's daughter, impregnated and then losing the child to said stab wound, and then Remender had her trapped in Dimension Z and aged up, a state which currently still stands. It would be nice to read a plot where the biggest part of her story doesn't involve her complete lack of agency. Coates is off to a good start, sending her on some kind of secret mission, so she might just get a decent arc in the newest Cap run which might endear her more to her detractors.

    Personally I've liked most of Steve's partners, I loved Bernie, Rachel and yes, Sharon as well. All great characters. The Cap book has the distinction of having not only a wonderful lead, but also some of the best supporting characters in Marvel.
    That´s exactly my feeling. Ok, she might not be character to support her own book, but she proved to be highly capable in Secret Avengers. She has everything to beher own character, but she needs to get out of the shadow of Steve. Jessica Jones and Luke Cage are the perfect example how being in a relationship doesn't me

    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Yeah, they transplanted a lot of comic Sharon's mojo into Peggy in CA:TFA. Didn't leave a lot for Sharon to stand out with in the films. Plus three serious problems:
    1. Atwell had chemistry with Evans that Van Camp just couldn't match
    2. Cap comes across more dramatically if he's tragically bereft of his great love in a way that he can't if he moves on with someone else
    3. The whole relationship with his aged gf's younger niece comes off as Deeply Creepy, and has since it was first cooked up in the 1970s.


    But, I digress.

    Sharon indeed never fully got her due in the comics. I don't claim she's a Black Widow peer, but nobody should ever have heard of a "Maria Hill" when Marvel had Sharon on the books. (aside, did Hill come along while Sharon was in one of her dead time-outs?)
    I agree, Peggy had a lot of chemistry with Evans. But I don´t undestand how much keeps popping everywhere (AoS, Ant-man, Avengers Assemble, Agent Carter). And I think Emily Van Camp is perfect cast. The problem was that her relationship with Steve was so rush, the movie was moving foreward to the Civil War part. That made Sharonm a character that had a lot story with Cap, a blink and you miss character. And Evans had more chemistry with Sebastian Stan. Their kiss was unearned and Cap actually found her identity in Peggy's funeral. Bottom line, they
    did not take advantage of her.

  5. #20
    Spectacular Member Hephoenix's Avatar
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    This was the concept art for Civil War.

    4770094-7bkd6q.jpg

    captain-america-civil-war-asset-marvel.jpg

  6. #21
    Spectacular Member Kaled's Avatar
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    When I first started reading Captain America it was in the middle of the Dr. Faustus/Hate storyline and Sharon had joined the enemy and I remember the ending with her activating the fire belt to kill herself. I also remember in an issue or two Cap watching the video tape of the footage and confirming she was dead. I was surprised when Mark Waid brought her back during his run on Captain America but I was disappointed with the explanation of how she survived. That the death was faked so she could go on an undercover mission. I felt it was cheap that her cremated body was faked when she died in front of Cap's eyes. Her only solo book that I know of was the 2 part Agent 13 mini-series and it was ok. I would like to see her de-aged and return to the spy field in another mini-series.

  7. #22
    Aged Howler tliscord's Avatar
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    You pretty much summed up things for me. I agree with many of the comments too about her steely emotions,”the mission is all that counts”, and some pretty obvious fridge moments. I believe Brubaker really enjoyed writing her, devoting 2 issues to her alone, first grieving about Steve’s death and eventually the miscarriage( I believe if not mistaken Steve was the father) and of course her desperate battle alone against Machinesmith. Elsewhere I have another thread that spoke to the tropes. But adding things up Sharon has decidedly pulled Steve’s fat out of the fire more often than not, although no doubt she’s had her moments where writers wrote the most insipid dialogue too. I’m glad she’ll be featured by Coates and Yu in this series, and yes getting her back to old young Sharon again would be nice.

  8. #23
    Aged Howler tliscord's Avatar
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    Attachment 68124

    Loved to see her back with Natasha running more Secret Avengers ... Ellis’ short run was, well too short

  9. #24
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    One of my few disappointments with the Russo Captain America films is how much they really underutilized Sharon.

    I get that Hayley Atwell's Agent Carter is a tough act to follow, but Sharon deserved better then she got, as did her relationship with Steve.
    Agreed 100%.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by tliscord View Post
    You pretty much summed up things for me. I agree with many of the comments too about her steely emotions,”the mission is all that counts”, and some pretty obvious fridge moments. I believe Brubaker really enjoyed writing her, devoting 2 issues to her alone, first grieving about Steve’s death and eventually the miscarriage( I believe if not mistaken Steve was the father) and of course her desperate battle alone against Machinesmith. Elsewhere I have another thread that spoke to the tropes. But adding things up Sharon has decidedly pulled Steve’s fat out of the fire more often than not, although no doubt she’s had her moments where writers wrote the most insipid dialogue too. I’m glad she’ll be featured by Coates and Yu in this series, and yes getting her back to old young Sharon again would be nice.
    Yeah, he was. Red Skull wanted to keep the baby to experiment on it, to see if the serum could be passed through Steve's genetic line. You know one thing I still wonder about though, that was never really cleared up? Faustus took credit for pushing Sharon towards Steve again through his brainwashing, so did Sharon renew her sexual relationship with Steve on her own accord, or was that part of the brainwashing? Obviously they stuck it out as when Steve came back from the whole magic bullet time travel experience they remained a couple on their own freewill, but I never figured out whether that baby was conceived as part of the brainwashing or was conceived legitimately with Sharon and Steve just getting carried away and forgetting the birth control. Steve's had a few long-term girlfriends, it's a bit weird that this was the one time he conceived a kid (alternate universes notwithstanding, I know he got Gail pregnant in the Ultimates universe).

  11. #26
    Aged Howler tliscord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    Yeah, he was. Red Skull wanted to keep the baby to experiment on it, to see if the serum could be passed through Steve's genetic line. You know one thing I still wonder about though, that was never really cleared up? Faustus took credit for pushing Sharon towards Steve again through his brainwashing, so did Sharon renew her sexual relationship with Steve on her own accord, or was that part of the brainwashing? Obviously they stuck it out as when Steve came back from the whole magic bullet time travel experience they remained a couple on their own freewill, but I never figured out whether that baby was conceived as part of the brainwashing or was conceived legitimately with Sharon and Steve just getting carried away and forgetting the birth control. Steve's had a few long-term girlfriends, it's a bit weird that this was the one time he conceived a kid (alternate universes notwithstanding, I know he got Gail pregnant in the Ultimates universe).
    Yes, it’s nagged at me as well. My best guess would be that Faustus gently nudged that part of her that loved Steve despite her unwillingness to nurture those feelings. At least I could imagine Brubaker explaining it this way. She’s a tough woman when her mind is set. I suspect their pregnancy was not in the Skull’s original plan, just her assassination attempt.

    Anyone know if there’s an old Brubaker interview out there addressing this?

  12. #27
    Spectacular Member Hephoenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tliscord View Post
    Yes, it’s nagged at me as well. My best guess would be that Faustus gently nudged that part of her that loved Steve despite her unwillingness to nurture those feelings. At least I could imagine Brubaker explaining it this way. She’s a tough woman when her mind is set. I suspect their pregnancy was not in the Skull’s original plan, just her assassination attempt.

    Anyone know if there’s an old Brubaker interview out there addressing this?
    No that I know. In fact, I did no hear of any Sharon comments in the interviews about the Captain America relauch. She didn´t appeared in any cover either.

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