Who is the top Telepath? the best telepath there is in the X-books?

[rutog98]

Yes. He was able to do all those amazing things. With Jean's help. He flat out says it. He doesn't say when she helped, he never says 'she helped at this particular time' he says he felt her fighting Dark Phoenix, helping him. Not offering "some" restraint but fighting her. Don't play. I'm not getting into this with you because I know how you are and how you twist things to take shine from other characters so I'm just going to leave this right where it's at. But I see you.

Now go on ahead and write some long winded reply to try and discredit what the scan shows, I promise you I won't be reading it.

Why don't you read what the issue actually said?

Xavier: "Would...have lost--but I sensed Jean fighting her Phoenix self...helping me..."



So, Jean helped Xavier by fighting her Phoenix self. Nowhere did it state that she was boosting him. You are adding extra panels. Again, the issue defined HOW Jean was helping Xavier in that fight. Also, Claremont referred to it this way as well years ago on the boards when he was talking to some Jean fans.CC said that Dark Phoenix held back because of Jean's humanity which is how Xavier won this fight.

[rutog98]

1) You didn’t answer my question. In which panel is Emma allowing Rachel to recover? Panels in your head don’t count.

Also Emma tried to take Rachel down twice and failed. In fact Rachel inverted both her attacks against her. It’s only when Rachel shot out with psychological warfare that Emma, finally the master of the subject, inverted that attack and made Rachel eeyore out.

2) Yes and this was after Exodus successfully dominated or fought off Quicksilver, Jean, Wanda, Crystal, War Machine, Cyclops, Storm, SERSEI, Gambit, Bishop, Black Knight, Captain America...

3) Emma’s never beaten Exodus though. She stalemated him a best, as she did Rachel in direct combat until resorting to daddy issues.

What in the world are you trying to say in #2?

[butterflykyss]

And as always you just love twisting things lol. Of course they were taken by surprise. If the O5 had gotten from that quote that Xavier was about to mindwipe them, do you really think they would all be just standing there, doing nothing? "Oh, you're gonna mess with my mind? Ok, go ahead". Rosenberg himself said Jean's guard was down.

to be fair I think the author did that to get the rabid fans off his back. xavier's the most powerful telepath on the planet. him being able to mind wipe jean shouldnt be alarming or surprising.

[rutog98]

That doesn’t mean Rachel’s not more powerful than Emma though.


You have that backwards, Emma is struggling here with a localizaed 8 billion, Rachel didn’t have issue doing 7.5 billion on a global scale.

I strongly disagree with your logic in this instance. When Rogue absorbs the personas of others, it creates a kind of psychic static making it harder for telepaths to probe her mind. In Exodus Cloak's scans, she had just absorbed 8 BILLION other psyches into her. That means the psychic static would be ramped up on steriods to the extreme at the time Emma probed it. Not only that, but multiple psyches in her head tend to kind of merge together making it hard to tell them apart. Emma was able to sift through the 8 billion minds meaning she could read them apart from each other. In Rachel's case, the minds were distinctly separate. They would not have been blurring together and creating the kind of psycho static that occurs in Rogue's mind when she takes on other people's psyche. True, in Rachel's case, the minds were spread out, but there were 500,000,000 less minds AND no psycho static.

[rutog98]

And as always you just love twisting things lol. Of course they were taken by surprise. If the O5 had gotten from that quote that Xavier was about to mindwipe them, do you really think they would all be just standing there, doing nothing? "Oh, you're gonna mess with my mind? Ok, go ahead". Rosenberg himself said Jean's guard was down.

Except, what he actually wrote in the issue contradicts what he said on twitter. The sequence of events as written in Kyss's scan does not add up to what he tweeted.

to be fair I think the author did that to get the rabid fans off his back. xavier's the most powerful telepath on the planet. him being able to mind wipe jean shouldnt be alarming or surprising.

This is why I believe there is a discrepancy between his twitter post and what he wrote in actual canon. I think Exodus Cloak mentioned something about him having to respond to fans even 8 hours later after this response, so it seems as if there was a constant stream of people coming at him who didn't like Xavier accomplishing what he did.

[DDM]

There's no evidence in canon to state that Rachel is more powerful then Emma. Canon would allude to the opposite. But an extrapolation of Emma being better then Rachel can be made from the Exodus fight.

No, the 8 billion minds have been suffering eternal damnation for decades. Did you even read the scan? She's not "struggling" they're screaming in anguish when she scans them because they're living dead

Sure there is, Rachel’s telepathy has mass global reach, her astral projection can cross galaxies and her consciousness time itself. Her potential is unlimited, none of this is true for Emma. A contextual fight isn’t a measure of raw power, although that can factor. And like Emma said in combat it’s experience and skill that are more vital. It’s why a Bush League Alpha like her can be so dangerous.

Rachel was scanning the globe, how many do you think are in turmoial, suffering, even dying at any given moment? Emma was just looking through Rogue’s head and at the 8 million xeroxes she made. Hardly the same thing and yeah, she was struggling.

[Havok83]

Sure there is, Rachel’s telepathy has mass global reach, her astral projection can cross galaxies and her consciousness time itself. Her potential is unlimited, none of this is true for Emma. A contextual fight isn’t a measure of raw power, although that can factor. And like Emma said in combat it’s experience and skill that are more vital. It’s why a Bush League Alpha like her can be so dangerous.

Rachel was scanning the globe, how many do you think are in turmoial, suffering, even dying at any given moment? Emma was just looking through Rogue’s head and at the 8 million xeroxes she made. Hardly the same thing and yeah, she was struggling.

Global? But she just gained the ability to use TP long distance like 3 months ago...lol

[Grey]

it appears as if they were close in powers with Dark Phoenix edging Xavier out

In my opinion this is an interpretation. Regardless, if true, this Would suggest it is Xavier vs jean/dark Phoenix in the panels.

But he’s saying jean helped him. Which means t was jean + Xavier vs dark Phoenix.

Which of these two versions is it? Is it Xavier vs jean/dark Phoenix or is it jean and Xavier vs dark Phoenix?

If it’s the first one, then Xavier won becaus jean helped him, not necessarily because he’s better than her. If it’s the second one then this evidence is irrelevant either way because it’s xavier vs the Phoenix, not jean.

Also, just a different question in general - at the time this was written, was Phoenix a possessive cosmic entity or just jean’s “true potential”? I can’t rememebr.

to be fair I think the author did that to get the rabid fans off his back. xavier's the most powerful telepath on the planet. him being able to mind wipe jean shouldnt be alarming or surprising.

So in Rosenberg’s case it was to get fans off his back. But rutog is referencing things clqremont outside of the comic, but that’s ok for the discussion I take it?

Personally I think it’s best to just leave all outside “intentions” of writers out of it. But if we are going to allow it, we should be consistent which means not hand waving what Rosenberg said away.

[DDM]

Global? But she just gained the ability to use TP long distance like 3 months ago...lol

Rachel forgets stuff sometimes. Like when Emma taught her to psychically make herself visually invisible, even though she’s done that repeatedly in the past (lol).

[ExodusCloak]

Sure there is, Rachel’s telepathy has mass global reach, her astral projection can cross galaxies and her consciousness time itself. Her potential is unlimited, none of this is true for Emma. A contextual fight isn’t a measure of raw power, although that can factor. And like Emma said in combat it’s experience and skill that are more vital. It’s why a Bush League Alpha like her can be so dangerous.

Rachel was scanning the globe, how many do you think are in turmoial, suffering, even dying at any given moment? Emma was just looking through Rogue’s head and at the 8 million xeroxes she made. Hardly the same thing and yeah, she was struggling.

Emma's telepathy has mass global reach too. She isolated all the mutants from humans to project Scott's message.

All 8 billion Emma scanned were tortured. It's not the same thing. It really isn't. No they weren't xeroxes read the story. They were the full minds of the hecatomb. Again read the story 8 billion minds that were absorbed fully into rogue due to the virus that upgraded her power. Not glimmers but full minds. Each and everyone tortured for decades and Emma scanned them quicker then Rachel.

[DDM]

I strongly disagree with your logic in this instance. When Rogue absorbs the personas of others, it creates a kind of psychic static making it harder for telepaths to probe her mind. In Exodus Cloak's scans, she had just absorbed 8 BILLION other psyches into her. That means the psychic static would be ramped up on steriods to the extreme at the time Emma probed it. Not only that, but multiple psyches in her head tend to kind of merge together making it hard to tell them apart. Emma was able to sift through the 8 billion minds meaning she could read them apart from each other. In Rachel's case, the minds were distinctly separate. They would not have been blurring together and creating the kind of psycho static that occurs in Rogue's mind when she takes on other people's psyche. True, in Rachel's case, the minds were spread out, but there were 500,000,000 less minds AND no psycho static.

Emma reading Rogue vs Rachel reading Earth. Not exactly a contest there, “static” or no. Technically Rachel would’ve been reading Rogue too, and untold others with psi-resistances.

[ExodusCloak]

Emma reading Rogue vs Rachel reading Earth. Not exactly a contest there, “static” or no. Technically Rachel would’ve been reading Rogue too, and untold others with psi-resistances.

Rachel didn't read everyone on the planet. She didn't read any members of the hellfire club as she could not locate the hideout so that's false.

[ExodusCloak]

And I made a mistake. The eighteen billion minds in the hecatomb were tortured for centuries not decades. Adjectiveless X-Men 198. Rogue absorbed 8 billion of them

[DDM]

Emma's telepathy has mass global reach too. She isolated all the mutants from humans to protect Scott's message.

All 8 billion Emma scanned were tortured. It's not the same thing. It really isn't. No they weren't xeroxes read the story. They were the full minds of the hecatomb. Again read the story 8 billion minds that were absorbed fully into rogue due to the virus that upgraded her power. Not glimmers but full minds. Each and everyone tortured for decades and Emma scanned them quicker then Rachel.

Emma didn’t do that on her own, she needed the Cuckoos to boost her because she doesn’t have mass global reach. Also which is more difficult, speaking to a ton of people simultaneously or listening to a ton of people simultaneously?

Rogue absorbed their psyches, which only still existed because the Hecatomb failed processing them after the first 10 million souls, but Emma wasn’t digging down through billions of thoughts and memories for information like Rachel, she only needed to brush the surface and find Rogue. And she wasn’t even necessairily in contact with them all simultaneously either, we don’t know how many she went through even before finding Rogue relatively quick. When you look for a single grain of sand in a desert, which was the comparison Emma gave, you’re not looking at every piece of sand at once.

[DDM]

Rachel didn't read everyone on the planet. She didn't read any members of the hellfire club as she could not locate the hideout so that's false.

She was digging for any sign of the Inner Circle or their school and accessing billions at a time going by the numbers she gave. She couldn’t find them because they were shielded and none of the HFC’s staff knew where it was.

Also note she was doing all this while telekinetically holding herself 30,000 feet above Manhattan and fending off a nagging Storm. And not breaking a sweat either.