Who is the top Telepath? the best telepath there is in the X-books?

[Askani's Flame]

5) Again, anybody with a global reach telepathically should be able to sift through all of those minds just like Rachel did. If they have a global reach, that means they can reach minds across the planet. So, that would encompass the entire human population. They would just have to spend the length of time it would take to sift through all of those minds.

Great, show me where another telepath without the boosted aid of Cerebro/a, a machine, or another psi has done this in canon. While I don't disagree that others COULD do this, no one has done this on panel yet other than Rachel to my knowledge.

6) IIRC, she had some of the Phoenix inside of her, and she just added to echo to what she already had.

Again, not true. The sole point of evidence you keep referencing is the Phoenix emblem that appeared over Rachel's eye during this period prior to "RAFOTSE". It was stated in panel that she wasn't the Phoenix nor did she have access to it's powers by here during "End of Greys" and during Weinberg's run. It's even stated in Wikipedia, and I quote, "Rachel's connection to the Phoenix power was lost in the distant future and did not return with her when she traveled back to the early 21st century (present) of Earth-616 (Marvel's mainstream universe).[63]" (source cited 63 is Cable 85-86 when she is rescued by him from Gaunt and says she has no access to the Phoenix Force as it left her in her mini). Jean did not have access to the Phoenix Force during the time when she gained the shadow form and Gold Phoenix tattoo, and when Rachel arrived back in 616 neither did she. Claremont never explained how Rachel gained the same "look" as Jean. As a former host she has a connection, but is not able to draw on it's power unless hosting. Same goes for all of them (Jean, Hope, QQ, Emma, Feron, The Cuckoos, etc). The only time she has had access to the Phoenix Force was from her time travel to 616 to the end of "The Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix"/her mini. Then she only regains access during RAFOTSE when the Echo jumps into her, and again loses access shortly after when the Phoenix pulls itself from her and Korvus's sword for preparation for Hope. That's it. Any and all of the feats during her second Claremont run (creating a black hole, levitating Providence, transforming her genetic code, etc) were her own. No Phoenix. It was essentially mandated that Rachel could only come back without access to the Phoenix as Jean could only be the Phoenix.

7) She was unhinged in time because of what Cable did. I can see why that would allow her to send TP messages through time. She's no longer locked at a particular time spot meaning that opened the possibility for her to do what she did.

Rachel has ALWAYS been able to use telepathy through time and space. In the very first issue she ever appeared in she did so (Uncanny X-Men 141). It was one of the unique traits to her from the other psis at the time. She even sent her own astral form through time after DoFP to see why the future wasn't fixed. Additionally she had a psi-bond with Nathan which allowed her to communicate with him directly through space and time, even though Gaunt was using his shackles to mute her powers. Again, something in her wheelhouse.

I'm not claiming Rachel is more powerful or competent than some of the others on this list, and while she has been done a major disservice in her abilities by various writers (mostly Guggenheim), she has some feats and abilities that can't be waved away.

[ExodusCloak]

You say effortlessly, but that’s not stated either. I could just as easily say Rachel “effortlessly” circumvented Emma’s restraints immediately before and it’d be just as accurate. The reality is they were trading psychic blows pretty evenly until Emma emotionally manipulated Rachel into just stopping. It’s stated Rachel’s power is off the charts, and it’s used as a distinction implying beyond Emma’s own power ceiling, and Emma acknowledges that while also mantaining her own advantages in skill, training and willpower are more vital to psychic battle. And they are. All this seems pretty straight forward and squares well with what we know about the characters.

As for Emma knocking Quire and Rachel over in her moment of distress that doesn’t mean anything. It was a surprise psychic outburst. When Rachel originally came to 616 she went nuts when she found out Jean died and had a psi-tantrum that also floored everyone, randomly throwing psibolts that were a match for Xavier. Top tier telepaths and extreme emotional distress can lead to that sort of thing.

No it's does not. All that infers is Rachel is using her power wrecklessly because she is untrained it infers nothing about Emma. Emma did not even bother attacking she just dodged Rachel. And tripped her up .

Emma does not acknowledge anything. She just states that Rachel is unskilled. Nothing about a power ceiling or anything you're implying.

Additionally, you made no comment on Exodus fight where she had a team of X-Men backing her

[DDM]

No it's does not. All that infers is Rachel is using her power wrecklessly because she is untrained it infers nothing about Emma. Emma did not even bother attacking she just dodged Rachel. And tripped her up .

Emma does not acknowledge anything. She just states that Rachel is unskilled. Nothing about a power ceiling or anything you're implying.

Additionally, you made no comment on Exodus fight where she had a team of X-Men backing her

Emma made the first very direct psychic attack while taunting she’d teach Rachel a lesson. As the fight went on and she recognized something of herself in Rachel she did move more defensive but that’s not at all how she started. Basically her mommy insincts took over, Jean could learn something here.

The implication that Rachel is more powerful is there, just as the implication that Emma is more skilled is there. If you’re going by what’s definitively stated then neither are, it’s never literally said Rachel is unskilled or Emma is more skilled. It’s implied but you can’t have it both ways.

And you’re wrong yet again, I did comment on the Exodus fight. I said it paints Rachel in a worse light, much like Jean and Xavier’s 90s confrontations with him. For better or worse Exodus isn’t really a character who’s been consistently depicted power wise. Emma lucked out and seems like she got one of the weaker variants on record.

[ExodusCloak]

Emma made the first very direct attack while taunting she’d teach Rachel a lesson. As the fight went on and she recognized something of herself in Rachel she did move more defensive but that’s not at all how she started. Basically her mommy insincts took over, Jean could learn something here.

The implication that Rachel is more powerful is there, just as the implication that Emma is more skilled is there. If you’re going by what’s definitively stated then neither are, it’s never literally said Rachel is unskilled or Emma is more skilled. It’s implied but you can’t have it both ways.

And you’re wrong yet again, I did comment on the Exodus fight. I said it paints Rachel in a worse light, much like Jean and Xavier’s 90s confrontations with him. For better or worse Exodus isn’t really a character who’s been consistently depicted power wise.

No Rachel made the first attack when she thought Emma kidnapped the X-Men then Emma swatted her Astral form when she attacked her again.

Rachel being less skilled then Emma and having no finnese is stated. Nothing about a power comparison is stated or implied. How do you know a I stated earlier Emma was using her full power you don't. Neither is stated. What is start is Rachel was using a lot more power then Emma and Emma beat her because she is more skilled as stated by Emma when asked how she beat her

Emma was cited as more powerful then Exodus in front of him by Rogue. And Exodus cited Emma as a peer of him Rachel did not make that list

Emma also states to Rachel that she is not her equal and shows her that in the fight

[Triniking1234]

Grand Design is non-canon and retconning things into one cohesive read

But the guy was quoting published stories, right? I didn't have time to look up the issue he was referencing with that scene tbh.

[DDM]

No Rachel made the first attack when she thought Emma kidnapped the X-Men then Emma swatted her Astral form when she attacked her again.

Rachel being less skilled then Emma and having no finnese is stated. Nothing about a power comparison is stated or implied. How do you know a I stated earlier Emma was using her full power you don't. Neither is stated. What is start is Rachel was using a lot more power then Emma and Emma beat her because she is more skilled as stated by Emma when asked how she beat her

Rachel physically crashed into her while freaking out. Maybe that was an attack but if it was it was clumsy as ****. Which... is constistent with Reload Rachel, lol. Emma made the first psychic attack though and it was before Rachel jumped to an astral form. Emma definitely attacked too, she didn’t move to defensive measures only until halfway through the fight.

And no, Rachel having less skill than Emma is never actually stated. All that’s stated is Emma has skill in abundance. Just as it’s stated Rachel’s power levels are unchartably high. Both imply an advantage for each over the other and that’s consistent with everything we know about each character. It’s so simple and obvious I’m a little unsure why you’re trying so hard to argue otherwise.

Emma does trash talk Rachel over “finesse” during the fight but Rachel’s rejects that notion. The “finesse” comment is more on Rachel’s blind rage too, it’s not referencing the closing comments on Rachel’s power level or Emma’s skill level at the end, which is where the obviously implied advantages for each are talked about.

Rachel’s inverting Emma’s restraints clearly surprised her too, nothing about the actual fight appeared “effortless” on her part. Emma only even “won” though emotional manipulation, which is often her M.O.. Emma basically momed Rachel down.

[ExodusCloak]

Rachel physically crashed into her while freaking out. Maybe that was an attack but if it was it was clumsy as ****. Which... is constistent with Reload Rachel, lol. Emma made the first psychic attack though and it was before Rachel jumped to an astral form. Emma definitely attacked too, she didn’t move to defensive measures only until halfway through the fight.

And no, Rachel having less skill than Emma is never actually stated. All that’s stated is Emma has skill in abundance. Just as it’s stated Rachel’s power levels are unchartably high. Both imply an advantage for each over the other and that’s consistent with everything we know about each character. It’s so simple and obvious I’m a little unsure why you’re trying so hard to argue otherwise.

Emma does trash talk Rachel over “finesse” during the fight but Rachel’s rejects that notion. The “finesse” comment is more on Rachel’s blind rage too, it’s not referencing the closing comments on Rachel’s power level or Emma’s skill level at the end, which is where the obviously implied advantages for each are talked about.

Rachel’s inverting Emma’s restraints clearly surprised her too, nothing about the actual fight appeared “effortless” on her part. Emma only even “won” though emotional manipulation, which is often her M.O.. She basically momed her down.

I'm arguing your assessment is regarding that scan stating Emma being weaker in power is inaccurate. As that's not commented on. Nothing like that is inferred that is your reading.
What is stated is that Rachel is not Emma's equal and that was proven by Emma there.
Rachel crashed into her then tried to attack again. So that's two attack's before Emma responded


Additionally Emma states why Rachel's powers were off the charts because it was being fueled by rage primal emotion. And then went on to state that she had no finnese

Rachel states Emma is doing this for fun and then "let's do this for real" which actually infers Emma was toying with her

[DDM]

I'm arguing your assessment is regarding that scan stating Emma being weaker in power is inaccurate. As that's not commented on.
What is stated is that Rachel is not Emma's equal and that was proven by Emma there.

Equal in what though? Emma isn’t specific there, and frankly it’s in character for her to claim general superiority regardless of how true it is or isn’t. She’s a bitch and that’s why we love her.

Rachel says she doesn’t understand how she didn’t win, saying her power is off the the charts. That implies a direct power comparison and advantage for her. Emma retorts that raw power is never the key, that skill, training and will matter more, also saying she has those qualities in abundance. That implies a direct comparison in those areas too with an advantage for Emma. It’s all right there and it’s consistent with everything established about each; Rachel’s power levels are potentially limitless, she’s an omega mutant like her mom and brother. But she’s also young and wreckless. Emma meanwhile has hard limits (that’s why the Phoenix was burning her out so quickly) but she’s also honed, experienced, careful and clever. Neither is the other’s equal in these categories.

[ExodusCloak]

Equal in what though? Emma isn’t specific there, and frankly it’s in character for her to claim general superiority regardless of how true it is or isn’t. She’s a bitch and that’s why we love her.

Rachel says she doesn’t understand how she didn’t win, saying her power is off the the charts. That implies a direct power comparison and advantage for her. Emma retorts that raw power is never the key, that skill, training and will matter more, also saying she has those qualities in abundance. That implies a direct comparison in those areas too with an advantage for Emma. It’s all right there and it’s consistent with everything established about each; Rachel’s power levels are potentially limitless, she’s an omega mutant like her mom and brother. But she’s also young and wreckless. Emma meanwhile has hard limits (that’s why the Phoenix was burning her out so quickly) but she’s also honed, experienced, careful and clever. Neither is the other’s equal in these categories.

Incorrect on both accounts. Emma states why Rachel was "off the charts" as she was fueled by rage. She even goes on to say she was the same when she was younger. That does not imply a power advantage. She then states she has no finnese.

Secondly the Phoenix was burning her out because "emotionally" she wasn't "strong" and that's why Celeste could host it. Negative emotion and the PF don't go well together stated by Rachel herself.

Emma then proceeded to host half of the Phoenix Force for a very long time in AvX and in Paks incredible Hercules which was still 616 Emma

http://old.brokenfrontier.com/column...lown-reader-qa

: In the last issue of “Warsong,” Emma tells Celeste, “I trained you so stupidly -- tried to make you cold and cynical. Because that’s how I survived. But you’re stronger than that. Stronger than me.” That might mean that Celeste’s psionic potential is actually stronger than Emma’s. Or it might imply that to host the Phoenix requires a willingness to open oneself up or give oneself away in a way that Emma couldn’t. I’ll leave it up for readers to draw their own conclusions.

Emma was actually cited as an Omega level mutant in avengers Academy. And Psylocke has as well. So take from that what you will

[Img]https://encrypted-tbn0.************/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSm9Wdy9R9jGl8K7vUU_ZNyweUOmCA25 JWLFUmpSnFCNkCF4iSz[/img]

[DDM]

Additionally Emma states why Rachel's powers were off the charts because it was being fueled by rage primal emotion. And then went on to state that she had no finnese

Rachel states Emma is doing this for fun and then "let's do this for real" which actually infers Emma was toying with her

Emma never says that regarding Rachel. The off the charts comment isn’t adressed by her saying it was Rachel’s rage, you’re conflating these comments out of order and backwards. All Emma said about the power levels was handwaving it away as if it doesn’t matter, which seems entirely in character for Emma when dealing with one of her disadvantages.

Rachel said Emma was treating it like a game and they should do it for real. Emma’s response is can’t it be both? The implication here is the opposite of what you claim, Emma was going in “for real” from the start by her own comments.

[stormphoenix]

Professor X!!!!

[DDM]

Incorrect on both accounts. Emma states why Rachel was "off the charts" as she was fueled by rage. She even goes on to say she was the same when she was younger. That does not imply a power advantage. She then states she has no finnese.

Secondly the Phoenix was burning her out because "emotionally" she wasn't "strong" and that's why Celeste could host it. Negative emotion and the PF don't go well together stated by Rachel herself.

Emma then proceeded to host half of the Phoenix Force for a very long time in AvX and in Paks incredible Hercules which was still 616 Emma

http://old.brokenfrontier.com/column...lown-reader-qa



Emma was actually cited as an Omega level mutant in avengers Academy. And Psylocke has as well. So take from that what you will

[Img]https://encrypted-tbn0.************/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSm9Wdy9R9jGl8K7vUU_ZNyweUOmCA25 JWLFUmpSnFCNkCF4iSz[/img]

Your Avengers link is broken.

You’re dead wrong on the rage/charts stuff but I already covered that. Weird that you’d double down on something like this though but desperate times call for desperate measures I guess.

Also in your link Pak says it’s open ended. Maybe Celeste’s just stronger power wise or stronger emotionally, it could be either. It’s notable he gives the power answer first though as that’s the more obvious read and consistent with Emma’s history, who’s always been depicted as a step below Jean.

Emma went nuts pretty fast only hosting half the Phoenix, none of the P5 could cope with being avatar long. Meanwhile Rachel did it for years and even willed it dormant at one point.

[ExodusCloak]

Emma never says that regarding Rachel. The off the charts comment isn’t adressed by her saying it was Rachel’s rage, you’re conflating these comments out of order and backwards. All Emma said about the power levels was handwaving it away as if it doesn’t matter, which seems entirely in character for Emma when dealing with one of her disadvantages.

Rachel said Emma was treating it like a game and they should do it for real. Emma’s response is can’t it be both? The implication here is the opposite of what you claim, Emma was going in “for real” from the start by her own comments.

Yeah she does the two sentences are connected. Rachel is using power but no funesse and that's because emotiona can act as fuel for our power. The emotion being Rage. Then Emma states Rachel has no finnese. Once rachel loses she states her power level was off the charts. And Emma explains that will, skill etc trumps power.

Rachel was fueled by Rage hence why her power level was off the charts

[DDM]

Yeah she does the two sentences are connected. Rachel is using power but no funesse and that's because emotiona can act as fuel for our power. The emotion being Rage. Then Emma states Rachel has no finnese. Once rachel loses she states her power level was off the charts. And Emma explains that will, skill etc trumps power.

Rachel was fueled by Rage hence why her power level was off the charts

Wrong. The off the charts comment comes at the end after Emma moms Rachel into giving up, there’s no correlation there. The implication you’re giving here doesn’t even read naturally, you’re grasping at straws.

[ExodusCloak]

Wrong. The off the charts comment comes at the end after Emma moms Rachel into giving up, there’s no correlation there. The implication you’re giving here doesn’t even read naturally, you’re grasping at straws.

There is definitely a correlation. It's in the same issue. It's written by the same writer. You're the one grasping at straws here.

Our emotions can fuel our powers but you have no finnese