Who is the top Telepath? the best telepath there is in the X-books?

[Phoenixx9]

Every Telepathic character at one point has been the most powerful telepath in the series.

Worst comes to worst, its an overall tie between Jean Grey as the Dark Phoenix and Onslaught.

Not even close.

Jean as Phoenix outranks every other TP, including Onslaught. The Phoenix Force in Jean Grey's form ("Phoenix and "Dark Phoenix") outstripped Onslaught easily. The Phoenix is a Cosmic-Class Entity.

I think Moondragon, with the Mind Gem, a cosmic artifact, may be second to Jean with the Phoenix Force, but I do not believe that the MG elevates Heather up to Jean's level as a cosmic character.

[Nobodyworthnoting]

Yet its canon





After dying she was able to come back, resist the Poison takeover of her mind and body. She was also able to use her TP to connect to the hive minds of everyone that had been taken over by the Poisons in Venomized and absorb all that psychic energy


and she was able to defeat Emma whom had her powers enhanced with a cosmic shard by breaking the psychic hold she had on the other mutants

Makes no sense to seperat she and adult Jean as two different characters but even if you do, she wasnt a weak telepath. The fact that she had her powers unlocked much earlier than originaly intended, made them develop far faster and she was doing impressive things with it

Avaeraging out this feat with with her 70's incarnation and feats puts her where she should be. If you really think a skilless jean who's stated to be fodder when it comes to skill compared to Emma is equal to a jean who's comparable to Emma then you're just biased.

[Nobodyworthnoting]

She should theoretically be cosmic entity level, but by feats she's straight trash. Way below skyfathers. Galactus called Rachel with the phoenix force fodder. Heck galactus was munching on the phoenix force like it was nothing. No phoenix host has a decent cosmic entity level feat.

[MechaJeanix]

Avaeraging out this feat with with her 70's incarnation and feats puts her where she should be. If you really think a skilless jean who's stated to be fodder when it comes to skill compared to Emma is equal to a jean who's comparable to Emma then you're just biased.

Didn't we say no fan wars? Also can we not use terms like "PIS" to describe things we personally do not like?
For Teen Jean there was an in-story reason for her power up which the user Havok has already explained sufficiently. There are other stories that now reinforce that younger Jean was powerful (X-men Origins Jean Grey, The Marvel Girl one-shot and then out of continuity sources like the X-men movies and the Wolverine and the X-men cartoon - and my point in bringing those up is that it is now widely accepted that she was always powerful and the mental blocks Xavier used with her kept her from reaching her potential at that age).

[Nobodyworthnoting]

Omg but she was less skilled and as she grew up her power grew as well, to say that a far younger and less skilled telepath is on par with a more skilled telepath is absurd.
Fan wars??

[Havok83]

Avaeraging out this feat with with her 70's incarnation and feats puts her where she should be. If you really think a skilless jean who's stated to be fodder when it comes to skill compared to Emma is equal to a jean who's comparable to Emma then you're just biased.

Why does her 70s incarnation now matter when this list does not count it, hence seperating Teen Jean and her accomplishments as seperate from adult Jean. Ive already shown several examples that highlight her as a powerful telepath. This isnt me being biased. This is taking into account how she was written during the time she was around. Here's another. Taking out Lady Mastermind after she tried to torment Jean with her psychic illusions



Teen Jean was not skillless nor was she portrayed as weak

[Veitha]

Lady Mastermind is kind of a non factor telepathically though.

Jeen defeating her adult self was just poor writing by Bendis. Same as her being able to hurt Galactus by Bunn.

[MechaJeanix]

Lady Mastermind is kind of a non factor telepathically though.

Jeen defeating her adult self was just poor writing by Bendis. Same as her being able to hurt Galactus by Bunn.

I mean it really wasn't because of the new ability she learned (absorbing psychic energy of those around her and boosting her powers and the ability to use tp/tk together). I know some do not like it but that doesn't make it poor writing. Poor writing would be if the writer had her do it but without any explanation (example if it was a one-off and again no in-story explanation). It was in-story that she learned a new aspect of her power and that power allowed her to power up in a big way.

edit: I'm referring to her fighting Galactus.

[Havok83]

Lady Mastermind is kind of a non factor telepathically though.

Jeen defeating her adult self was just poor writing by Bendis. Same as her being able to hurt Galactus by Bunn.

Generally speaking, Id agree but she holds significance as being the first psi that Jean faced upon having her TP unlocked. Regan was defeating her until Jean got the upper hand and this was without any training or real experience with the power. She only grew from there. Plus the list had the two on the same level and Regan most definitely was not on her level

[Veitha]

Generally speaking, Id agree but she holds significance as being the first psi that Jean faced upon having her TP unlocked. Regan was defeating her until Jean got the upper hand and this was without any training or real experience with the power. She only grew from there. Plus the list had the two on the same level and Regan most definitely was not on her level

Yeah, ok. I would have preferred her to go a darker route from this if I have to be honest btw (changing subject here hahaha). Like this scene and her first months in 616 showed that she was willing to use her powers and give no fs, then she started training with Emma and then... She became a generic teen character.

I mean it really wasn't because of the new ability she learned (absorbing psychic energy of those around her and boosting her powers and the ability to use tp/tk together). I know some do not like it but that doesn't make it poor writing. Poor writing would be if the writer had her do it but without any explanation (example if it was a one-off and again no in-story explanation). It was in-story that she learned a new aspect of her power and that power allowed her to power up in a big way.

It's kind of bad writing because in the same series Emma shut down her TK with no issues whatsoever when she got her powers back, and that future version of Jean Grey would probably be on par with Emma as far as skills and be much more powerful than her. And there was no trace of psi-draining powers yet, that came later as a Deus ex machina thing as one would expect from Brian lookatmyhipdialoguesbutnotattherestofthismess Bendis.

[LordAllMIghty]

She should theoretically be cosmic entity level, but by feats she's straight trash. Way below skyfathers. Galactus called Rachel with the phoenix force fodder. Heck galactus was munching on the phoenix force like it was nothing. No phoenix host has a decent cosmic entity level feat.

Excuse me...???

[Nobodyworthnoting]

How is this a good skill feat?? She states that her powers are different and attacks her... Not much eh.

[MechaJeanix]

Yeah, ok. I would have preferred her to go a darker route from this if I have to be honest btw (changing subject here hahaha). Like this scene and her first months in 616 showed that she was willing to use her powers and give no fs, then she started training with Emma and then... She became a generic teen character.



It's kind of bad writing because in the same series Emma shut down her TK with no issues whatsoever when she got her powers back, and that future version of Jean Grey would probably be on par with Emma as far as skills and be much more powerful than her. And there was no trace of psi-draining powers yet, that came later as a Deus ex machina thing as one would expect from Brian lookatmyhipdialoguesbutnotattherestofthismess Bendis.

I edited my post to say I was referring to her battle with Galactus. I need to go back and re-read Jean's fight with her older self. Plus we don't know much about that version so it is hard to say. We do know that her powers were killing her and she had to wear the Xorn suit right? Maybe she wasn't at her best place or since it was an alternate timeline we don't know the extent of her abilities.

Also, in another story Xorna was a construct of kid Xavier and wasn't it left open so we don't know if the first Xorna was real or not (I'd prefer that she was but I kind of remember it was left ambiguous). Feel free to correct me if I'm misremembering things.

[Havok83]

Yeah, ok. I would have preferred her to go a darker route from this if I have to be honest btw (changing subject here hahaha). Like this scene and her first months in 616 showed that she was willing to use her powers and give no fs, then she started training with Emma and then... She became a generic teen character.



It's kind of bad writing because in the same series Emma shut down her TK with no issues whatsoever when she got her powers back, and that future version of Jean Grey would probably be on par with Emma as far as skills and be much more powerful than her. And there was no trace of psi-draining powers yet, that came later as a Deus ex machina thing as one would expect from Brian lookatmyhipdialoguesbutnotattherestofthismess Bendis.

The way I interpreted it was bc she had gotten older. Can a young 18 year old basketball player beat themselves at 40 in a one on one match? Probably even though the 40 year old would have had far more experience. BOTA Jean did not have the mental stamina to go on in a high intense battle for as long as she used to as a younger person. Her powers affected her differently, such that she had to wear a containment helmet and using too much of her power weakened her. A part of her also held back bc if she unleashed her full power, it would have killed her, as we saw it do in the finale to that story

[Askani's Flame]

Attachment 95993
Some images got cropped so if you don't know who's who just ask.

SS- Moondragon(w/ mind gem), Shaman nate, Silver surfer, martian manhunter, despero.

S- Charles, Jean grey, Cass nova, shadow King, savior cable.

A- Emma, Exodus, Dr strange, base moondragon, mantis, Thanos, Maxima.

B- Betsy, Rachel, base nate, quentin, Sentry, Cosmo the spacedog.

C- Gorilla grodd, Base cable, Lady Mastermind, cuckoos, teen jean grey.

D- kid cable, nova (frankye raye).

Fodder but great characters- Danielle moonstar, sage.

One is base nate, the other is shaman.

OK, so this list is bonkers.
1) If you (or the OP) are choosing to not list someone when they are a host to the Phoenix Force, then you cannot list someone when they have merged with multiple reality versions of themselves (Shaman Nate) or host to a cosmic gem (Moondragon). We can't pick and choose.
2) Jean Grey and Quentin Quire are Omega level, so above Charles no matter what.
3) While Jean and Tean are in essence different characters given how they were written to exist, X-Man and Shaman NG are the same character. And again, if we're saying being imbued with a power other than your own is a no-no, then Savior Nate and Shaman Nate can't be on the list. Same with Savior Cable and Base Cable (who is the same as teen Cable as they share the same limitations). Same with Silver Surfer who is embued with the Power Cosmic.

Here would be my revised list (similar to what others have floated) keeping some of the characters mentioned in place as I don't know them well enough:

SS - Jean Grey, Quentin Quire, Martian Manhunter, Despero
S - Oracle, Charles Xavier, the Shadow King, Cassandra Nova
A - Emma Frost, Rachel Summers, Exodus, Moondragon, Mantis, Thanos, Maxima, Tean
B - Betsy Braddock, Nate Grey, Mastermind, The Cuckoos Hivemind, Selene
C - Nathan Dayspring, Silver Surfer, Kwannon, Lady Mastermind, Cosmo, Gorilla Grodd
D - Sentry, Nova, Karma

Also when did Galactus called Phoenix (Rachel) fodder? Anywho, those are my thoughts on this .... list