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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Stone View Post
    And that's okay. Comics are meant to be read, and I did fine with buying comics that weren't bagged and boarded prior to purchase for a long time before I had to make monthly trips out of town just to get them.

    Actually. Comic book shops depending on pull lists is destroying the ability to get anything spontanously.

  2. #152
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbrklyn View Post
    Actually. Comic book shops depending on pull lists is destroying the ability to get anything spontanously.
    That, too.
    I grew up being a browser from my years of spinner racks.

    When I started going to the comic shop once a month for comics, because it was so far away, I would often get berated for not pre-ordering comics if I missed an issue.
    Then having to order comics three months away was almost like making a commitment that I was going to drive up in three months to get comics.
    Not bad at first, but then after a while you realize that you've committed to driving up there every month for the next three months. And you become closed to the idea of browsing the shelf because if something catches your attention, you've already missed ordering the next two or three issues.

    It also had a side-effect of making the trips feel like a job.
    Instead of 'hey, let's go to the city' it turned into 'I have to go to the city', because I was obligated to get the comics I pre-ordered. Even worse if you lose interest in a comic after an issue or two... and it's the only thing that's there for you to pick up because you've already pre-ordered it.
    Last edited by Lee Stone; 07-18-2018 at 01:45 AM.
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  3. #153
    DC/Collected Editions Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Back in the late '70s when our LCS opened up in walking distance to my house, I would go once a week and get everything I wanted off the spinner racks. I never missed anything, either.
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  4. #154
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    With the second of Marvel's Digital Exclusive, Jessica Jones, announced, I think that's much more concerning than Walmart's exclusive stories. Because Cloak and Dagger and Jessica Jones: Blind Spot are in continuity. I don't think Kelly Thompson and Dennis Hopeless are quite as high profile as Tom King and Bendis, but they're probably pretty close for Marvel. (You could counter with "What about Suicide Squad: Hell To Pay - but I don't think an AU tie-in to a straight-to-digital animated film by the Batman 66 writer is quite the same profile as what Thompson and Hopeless are doing.)
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  5. #155
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    Not to mention, for a while, New Teen Titans, Outsiders and Legion of Super-Heroes switched to Direct-Only, with their newsstand titles becoming 'one year later' reprints. So I'd have to wait a year to read what was happening in their main books.
    Yeah, that is a lousy way to get comics isn't it?


    Comics are meant to be read, and I did fine with buying comics that weren't bagged and boarded prior to purchase for a long time before I had to make monthly trips out of town just to get them.
    I agree that comics are meant to be read. They are also meant to be in good condition when they are bought.


    Actually. Comic book shops depending on pull lists is destroying the ability to get anything spontanously.
    This cuts both ways. The odds of somebody randomly finding/reading an issue of a low-circulation title are low. Most comic shops only order certain titles for subscribers. But, if not for pull-files guaranteeing that readers could consistently pick up low-circulation titles, those titles would likely have even fewer readers (as readers give up on finding them).

    Spinner racks work for casual readers and kids. But, as soon as I became a regular reader, pull-files were the only way to go.


    Not bad at first, but then after a while you realize that you've committed to driving up there every month for the next three months. And you become closed to the idea of browsing the shelf because if something catches your attention, you've already missed ordering the next two or three issues.
    The pull-file system is not perfect. But, if not for pull-files, I would have given up comics years ago.


    I don't think Kelly Thompson and Dennis Hopeless are quite as high profile as Tom King and Bendis, but they're probably pretty close for Marvel. (You could counter with "What about Suicide Squad: Hell To Pay - but I don't think an AU tie-in to a straight-to-digital animated film by the Batman 66 writer is quite the same profile as what Thompson and Hopeless are doing.)
    That is some bollux. Digital is technically more convenient. But, even if I liked how comics looked on my tablet, the change in format is bothersome. So far, with digital content, I have not missed anything by waiting for compilations. But, at some point, Marvel is going to release something by a creator that I care about and not reprint it.
    Last edited by CentralPower; 07-18-2018 at 10:14 AM.
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  6. #156
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    >This cuts both ways. The odds of somebody randomly finding/reading an issue of a low-circulation title are low. Most comic shops only order certain titles for subscribers. But, if not for pull-files guaranteeing that readers could consistently pick up low-circulation titles, those titles would likely have even fewer readers (as readers give up on finding them).

    >Spinner racks work for casual readers and kids. But, as soon as I became a regular reader, pull-files were the only way to go.

    I don't know what these sentences mean. When did we starting talking about low print run titles? You haver zero chance of selling these if they aren't on the racks.


    I need to say something here. Comic Book shops were origianlly created to get back issues and to shop or request rarer books. That is the collector part. Selling new books has frankly become an unhealthy obsession created by flooding the market with Dirrection Issue titles... or at least this is my opinion.

    Businesses depend on the causual shopper. If they live on the dollars of the fewer nerd class, then it never feeds new customers and it loses its marketing viability.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbrklyn View Post

    Businesses depend on the causual shopper. If they live on the dollars of the fewer nerd class, then it never feeds new customers and it loses its marketing viability.
    This is correct. The comics companies need to break out of their rut of selling only to the hardcore fans who visit comics shops.

    The New 52, for whatever was lacking about it, was another attempt to bring in more casual customers who hadn't invested years in getting up to speed about DCU history.

    Unfortunately, DC quickly capitulated to a lot of carping on the message boards, and unwisely reintroduced complexity to the DCU.

  8. #158
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    Default Walmart Killed the LCS Star

    Quote Originally Posted by mrbrklyn View Post
    Actually. Comic book shops depending on pull lists is destroying the ability to get anything spontanously.
    And this comment is based on your extensive sampling of what number of LCS 's and knowledge of their retail practices. Just because many smaller shops have stopped playing the Byrne game and do not overstock anything that their customers HAVE SHOWN NO INTEREST IN and have to watch their bottom line doesn't mean that they can't BACK ORDER IT for you. In fact my store owner goes out of his way to stock a few copies of the weeks indies which often generates interest in those titles. What he doesn't do is overstock DC and Marvels generic sludge. Many times he has been burned attempting to extra order their most recent non event. Fans of those two companies simply aren't playing Marvel and DC 's games anymore. Too much product per week at too high a price. Blame the company's for this.
    Last edited by alton; 07-18-2018 at 09:13 AM.

  9. #159
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    Default Walmart Killed the LCS Star

    Quote Originally Posted by CentralPower View Post
    Walmart and Target regularly skip entire waves of action figures if a previous wave does not sell through. Or, figures show up months after they are supposed to. This is annoying enough for action figure collectors But, aside from build-figure waves, action figures are not necessarily meant to be bought in waves or sequence.

    And, toy collectors tend to use on-line stores as a work-around.




    From what I have heard, there is no guarantee that the Walmart content will be compiled in trades.

    If I wanted library copies, I would not buy comics in the first place




    Not really. Some people are trying to make it about class or snobbery. I am just arguing that box-retail is going to be bad for regular comic readers if box retail starts getting exclusive content or distribution.




    I strongly suspect that this is a regional distinction. Around here, box retail (Walmart, Target, Kmart, whatever} is dirty and disorganized. There are aisles that sell like bathrooms in some stores.

    And, yes, we have all seen comic shops that are....questionable. I avoid those as well.




    DC wants to sell more comics, expanding their market. Objectively, this will sell more comics. DC has every right to sell exclusive content through Walmart. But, this will pretty well screw existing readers like us, who want to get complete runs of creators on certain titles.




    DC will absolutely screw the local comic shops. We seem to agree on this.

    I am arguing that this will screw current/regular readers. Even the dingier comic shops get product on time. And, the newer comics are usually in pretty good shape, if only when they first arrive. Walmart will not make street dates for comics a priority. The comics will be dog-eared and dirty inside of a week, though not the week they were supposed to ship.
    Best analysis here but I am still curious as to how this Walmart deal plays out.The industry needs to find a way to stay alive but I'm not convinced it will be Walmart. I give it a year at most. I'm sticking with my LCS.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by alton View Post
    Best analysis here but I am still curious as to how this Walmart deal plays out.The industry needs to find a way to stay alive but I'm not convinced it will be Walmart. I give it a year at most. I'm sticking with my LCS.
    See, I just don't think sticking with your LCS means eschewing other outlets.

    (Also, the claim that comic shops get product on time is...inconsistent. Thankfully, mine almost always does, but there are plenty of weekly reports of Diamond screwing up orders.)
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  11. #161
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    I don't know what these sentences mean. When did we starting talking about low print run titles? You haver zero chance of selling these if they aren't on the racks.
    Somebody mentioned pull-files making random or spontaneous finds more common.

    Low circulation titles are by definition harder to find randomly, and nearly impossible to find consistently. The last low circulation title that I read was "WarHammer Monthly" (nearly 20 years ago). Back-issues were nearly impossible to find. And, there were gaps in that run that I never managed to fill because so few places sold that series. I found it because a local hobby shop had a pile of random issues (and had since stopped ordering). I only managed to get what I later did consistently because of a pull-file.


    Businesses depend on the causual shopper. If they live on the dollars of the fewer nerd class, then it never feeds new customers and it loses its marketing viability.
    The technical term for this is "monopsony" (fewer customers to consume products). And, I agree that it is unhealthy. And, I have agreed that DC selling through WalMart (or any box retail) will probably help the industry as a whole. But, if Walmart is getting exclusive content, it is going to suck for regular readers. (I was considering jumping in for King's Bat-run. I am not going to do so now, because I am not going to haunt Walmart for comics.)


    Just because many smaller shops have stopped playing the Byrne game and do not overstock anything that their customers HAVE SHOWN NO INTEREST IN and have to watch their bottom line doesn't mean that they can't BACK ORDER IT for you. In fact my store owner goes out of his way to stock a few copies of the weeks indies which often generates interest in those titles.
    Some stores cannot afford to over-order. (Some can. But, some cannot.)

    Back-ordering is iffy. Sometimes, it is not an option. (Hardly the store's fault. But, if it does not work, it does not work.)
    Last edited by CentralPower; 07-18-2018 at 10:15 AM.
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  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by alton View Post
    And this comment is based on your extensive sampling of what number of LCS 's and knowledge of their retail practices.

    Let's see... maybe 800 comic book shops and 40+ years ... maybe more. This is a destructive way of carrying on a discussion, by attacking the editor and his sources in a left handed way. My experience is so deep and extensive, that if I did what you did, there would be nobody to talk to about comics because only a handful of collectors have my degree of substantive background and expereince on the topic.

    There are only a handful of stores in the entire country that can survive on spontaneous sales from the racks... Midtown Comics being one. Not even a store like forbidden planet can keep up with racks and stock for back issues. They aim to sell every book out, and obviously with the direct market, nothing is ever returned. That makes pull lists essential to the profitability for comic stores, which is just a fancy way of saying they depend on a subscription service. Otherwise their inventory growth is overwhelming..
    Last edited by mrbrklyn; 07-18-2018 at 09:42 AM.

  13. #163
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    Default Walmart Killed the LCS Star

    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    See, I just don't think sticking with your LCS means eschewing other outlets.

    (Also, the claim that comic shops get product on time is...inconsistent. Thankfully, mine almost always does, but there are plenty of weekly reports of Diamond screwing up orders.)
    Didn't Wegmans also try this? Not sure if they still do. Good points especially about Diamond screwing up. Ironically my daughter has been doing street team for a young adult writer and books that were supposed to be shipped to both Walmart and Barnes and Nobles were late at both locations because of the shippers delay. Shipper was not Diamond. This affected both initial roll out and first week sales but also apparently the books mention in various publications like N.Y. Times Book Review. See I told you you would have fun on this thread. This is my last comment here. See Ya elsewhere.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by CentralPower View Post
    (I was considering jumping in for Taylor's Bat-run. I am not going to do so now, because I am not going to haunt Walmart for comics.)
    Taylor? Do you mean King? Also, remember that 1) The Wal-Mart titles are not part of any LCS-available continuity (they're in pockets of their own continuity), and 2) Bendis is writing Batman for Walmart, and Superman for the DM, while Tom King is writing Superman for Walmart, and Batman for the DM. So if you want to jump in on Tom King's Batman run, Walmart won't affect it at all.
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  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by alton View Post
    Didn't Wegmans also try this? Not sure if they still do. Good points especially about Diamond screwing up. Ironically my daughter has been doing street team for a young adult writer and books that were supposed to be shipped to both Walmart and Barnes and Nobles were late at both locations because of the shippers delay. Shipper was not Diamond. This attached both initial roll out and first week sales but also apparently the books mention in various publications like N.Y. Times Book Review. See I told you you would have fun on this thread. This is my last comment here. See Ya elsewhere.
    Never heard of Wegmans doing comics, but then I go to Wegmans extremely infrequently. (Much less often than I go to Walmart even before the comics - I bought Justice League Walmart exclusive edition there this year. ).

    There are plenty of publishers and distributors who fail to meet schedule, but for Walmart and other box stores (and even small indies), there's usually more than one. For the LCS, there's only Diamond. So we have a monopoly and a monopsony. Not great.
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