Superman#1 Discussion and Spoilers

[manofsteel1979]

So, for what it's worth, regarding the "Jon vs school" thing (and I'm surprised that it's actually a "thing" tbh, given that it seems the actual issue is not school but that Jon has a crush, but whatever), I'm wondering if anyone remembers issues 1 and 2 from Superman: Lois and Clark?








I mean......

That's literally Jon saying "real world stuff is way more interesting. I can work on math any old time." He used to get into trouble relatively often. So much so that he'd get made fun of for it. He's characterized as inherently being more interested in "real world stuff" rather than school. Doesn't mean he hates school (Bendis' Jon even makes a point to ask Jor-El to bring him back before school starts in issue 5 of MOS)

And funny enough, Lois is less of s scolding mother, and more of an understanding and accommodating one. She even asks the principle if she ever conceded letting the kids watch the news in class.

That's from Dan Jurgens himself, folks. So, I'm not seeing the issue.

I think at this point for some its less about what is being written and how , but who is writing it.

I came across this video on youtube and I'm really wondering if this guy actually read the same issue I did, but apparently he did and, well...



I mean...he's entitled to his opinion, but...wow.

Warning...don't make a drinking game out of this guy saying "cuck"...because you will die of alcohol poisoning.


Edit: i just looked over other videos from this guy...and it explains quite a lot. He almost literally likes nothing from what I've surmised and he has a pretty obvious agenda that colors pretty much everything.

[Miles To Go]

Edit: i just looked over other videos from this guy...and it explains quite a lot. He almost literally likes nothing from what I've surmised and he has a pretty obvious agenda that colors pretty much everything.

I used to watch his videos all the time, until he started insisting Renew Your Vows was the story about a divorce.

I prefer Yellow Flash's review.

[Rod G]

Well . . . that escalated quickly.

[Lvenger]

So, for what it's worth, regarding the "Jon vs school" thing (and I'm surprised that it's actually a "thing" tbh, given that it seems the actual issue is not school but that Jon has a crush, but whatever), I'm wondering if anyone remembers issues 1 and 2 from Superman: Lois and Clark?








I mean......

That's literally Jon saying "real world stuff is way more interesting. I can work on math any old time." He used to get into trouble relatively often. So much so that he'd get made fun of for it. He's characterized as inherently being more interested in "real world stuff" rather than school. Doesn't mean he hates school (Bendis' Jon even makes a point to ask Jor-El to bring him back before school starts in issue 5 of MOS)

And funny enough, Lois is less of s scolding mother, and more of an understanding and accommodating one. She even asks the principle if she ever conceded letting the kids watch the news in class.

That's from Dan Jurgens himself, folks. So, I'm not seeing the issue.

Guess I'll field the counter arguments given that I'm the one who raised the school point. I see your Dan Jurgens and raise you Tomasi and Gleason's take on Jon, who have arguably done more to define Jon than Jurgens. In Superman #7, Jon works on his science project in the Fortress of Solitude which is using the highly advanced technology of Krypton for a mere school project. In Super Sons #1, Jon is shocked that Damian impersonated his substitute teacher and berates him for teaching the kids what he thought was made up stuff. Jon helped pick up litter in the corridor in Superman #10. Then there's the stuff at the West-Reeve school where Jon is enthusiastic about going there and criticises Damian for thinking himself better than the other kids there. And Jurgens also had Jon read up on news articles after school which is indicative of extra curricular interests. My point is Bendis' handle on Jon in that flashback was wildly out of sync with how Jurgens and Tomasi have written him. That's why there are justifiable issues with Bendis' writing of Jon.

[Dispenser Of Truth]

My point is Bendis' handle on Jon in that flashback was wildly out of sync with how Jurgens and Tomasi have written him. That's why there are justifiable issues with Bendis' writing of Jon.

You just conceded Jurgens, now you're citing him again? And that a kid likes school some days, or certain aspects of it, doesn't mean he's 100% on it all the time always - he hardly seemed to be seriously suggesting not going to it so much as complaining about it in general, much like every other 10 year old that has ever lived, given Clark's lack of concern.

And yeah manofsteel, D&C is easily the most toxic presence at the fringes of the industry right now, so it's not surprising he found the creepiest way possible to attack this issue given his past 'work'.

[manofsteel1979]

You just conceded Jurgens, now you're citing him again? And that a kid likes school some days, or certain aspects of it, doesn't mean he's 100% on it all the time always - he hardly seemed to be seriously suggesting not going to it so much as complaining about it in general, much like every other 10 year old that has ever lived, given Clark's lack of concern.

And yeah manofsteel, D&C is easily the most toxic presence at the fringes of the industry right now, so it's not surprising he found the creepiest way possible to attack this issue given his past 'work'.

I wasn't even aware of him until i saw this video.

I should have been clued in to this guys number the moment I heard him say " cuck."

[bigstupidjellyfish]

The flashback probably happened at the start of the week and Jon had a case of the Mondays. That happens to everyone, Jon is not exempt.

[rpmaluki]

If Bendis really wrote Jon to hate school why make a point of wanting to return from his galaxy trip before school starts? That, and I've never known children to like everything about school, all of the time. They have on and off days just like adults doing a career they love. And it's possible Jon was deflecting, perhaps he is crushing on a girl or something equally embarrassing to a 10 year old and latched on the easiest excuse to get him out of something he'd rather keep from his dad's sharp eye. From what I gather, every complaint levelled at Bendis regarding Jon should apply to Tomasi/Gleason and Jurgens since they all wrote something similarly to what Bendis has thus far.

[Lvenger]

You just conceded Jurgens, now you're citing him again? And that a kid likes school some days, or certain aspects of it, doesn't mean he's 100% on it all the time always - he hardly seemed to be seriously suggesting not going to it so much as complaining about it in general, much like every other 10 year old that has ever lived, given Clark's lack of concern.

Um I used an example of Jon acting interested in school under the Rebirth writers to contrast Bendis' flashback scene. I don't see the issue. My real problem is that this doesn't sound like Jon at all. Bendis' voice for Jon makes him sound like a generic caricature of a kid rather than the one Jurgens and Tomasi developed. That's my bigger beef than Jon's lack of interest in school to be clear.

[Sacred Knight]

I think Bendis makes him sound like a kid with some semblance of a three-dimensional personality.

[Lvenger]

Much in the same way Tomasi's run often times felt like a spiritual successor to the Jeph Loeb/ Joe Kelly era and Jurgens was a spiritual successor to his own 90s era. Bendis probably was a regular Superman reader in the Bronze Age and that is where he seems to gravitate towards as his personal starting point.

Off topic; When you put their run like that it's no wonder I loved it so much. The Loeb/Kelly era is one of my favourite periods of Superman and there are similarities with the themes and focuses of Tomasi and Gleason's Superman run. Not sure if they said that period is what officially inspired them but given the use of Manchester Black and their portrayal of relationships I can understand that position a lot more.

[manofsteel1979]

Off topic; When you put their run like that it's no wonder I loved it so much. The Loeb/Kelly era is one of my favourite periods of Superman and there are similarities with the themes and focuses of Tomasi and Gleason's Superman run. Not sure if they said that period is what officially inspired them but given the use of Manchester Black and their portrayal of relationships I can understand that position a lot more.

They never implicitly said their run was inspired by Loeb and Kelly, but like you I couldn't help but get that vibe.

[Superlad93]

My point is Bendis' handle on Jon in that flashback was wildly out of sync with how Jurgens and Tomasi have written him. That's why there are justifiable issues with Bendis' writing of Jon.

I mean, is there any particular reason why it has to be either or? I brought up the scenes from Lois and Clark to show that Jon 100% has those exact words in him. To illustrate that Jon saying he'd sometimes rather learn via "real word" mean is not something out of the way in his lexicon. He's straight up said it before. That's the point. It hasn't even been a full year since he said it since he was 10 then, and he's 10 now.

And again, I wanna super stress that the scene literally ends with Clark getting to the heart of the matter being Jon making excuses because he likely has a crush at school and likely did something embarrassing or something to that effect. Jon even says "I know" when Clark flatly tells him that he's going to school meaning he wasn't even close to thinking this was feasible, and, again, alluding to the idea that the actual deal had to do with crush of some sort.

So, with the knowledge that he has in fact had this sort of talk under his creator before, and the since the scene has a very clear comedic, I don't see the issue. I don't see way it has to be either or. And I do see this as some legitimate imaginary nitpicking.

But, you know, it is what it is. Everyone gets to make their minds up themselves.

[Robanker]

Better late than never! I finally picked this up and it was a very solid start to the run. I get the feeling that's not actually J'onn and instead a white Martian who is impersonating both J'onn and Kal (starting the fires). His voice is just so wrong for J'onn that I can't buy it's him. Reis murdered this book in the best kind of way, no less. Excited to see what happens next!

[Flash Gordon]

I think at this point for some its less about what is being written and how , but who is writing it.

I came across this video on youtube and I'm really wondering if this guy actually read the same issue I did, but apparently he did and, well...



I mean...he's entitled to his opinion, but...wow.

Warning...don't make a drinking game out of this guy saying "cuck"...because you will die of alcohol poisoning.


Edit: i just looked over other videos from this guy...and it explains quite a lot. He almost literally likes nothing from what I've surmised and he has a pretty obvious agenda that colors pretty much everything.

That's gotta be the creepiest review.

He's for sure playing to an audience with the whole "cuck" thing, it's absurdist.