Should Superman be an agent of change or a maintainer of the status quo?

[Lightning Rider]

The world could do with a lot more centrism these days...

No thanks, a centrist lack of principles is what has allowed hard-won gains to be lost amidst a constant drift to the right for both parties.

[HeroVladimir93]

Have you honestly read a comic where those things youdescribed have happened? A Marvel character stopped fighting a villain to attend any sort of BLM organization, really?

The closest I can even imagine would be... the unpublished Superman/Black Lightning comic.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/08...vor-von-eeden/

No, but Marvel is a very sociopolitical brand and it's not hard to imagine a situation like that would happen. Superman, in my opinion, works best as a character who works to protect and serve humanity as a single, unified race, believing everyone can be a better person. Truth, justice, benevolence and kindness are ideals that transcend politics and Superman could be a good representative of those ideals in an era where everything and everyone is under political scrutiny.

[Carabas]

Superman, in my opinion, works best as a character who works to protect and serve humanity as a single, unified race, believing everyone can be a better person.

And how is that not a very political vision of the character?

[bat39]

No thanks, a centrist lack of principles is what has allowed hard-won gains to be lost amidst a constant drift to the right for both parties.

You are of course entitled to your opinion, as are we all.

That said, when it comes to a character like Superman, who is not only an intensely valuable commercial property, but a pop-cultural icon than appeals to millions, if not billions, of people, a centrist approach might be the best way to go.

[bat39]

And how is that not a very political vision of the character?

What would you consider it then? A left-wing vision of the character? A right-wing vision? Liberal? Conservative? Something else?

[Lvenger]

I'd honestly rather the writers focus on telling good Superman stories than concern themselves with this question.

[bat39]

I'd honestly rather the writers focus on telling good Superman stories than concern themselves with this question.

Exactly!

10char

[Lightning Rider]

You are of course entitled to your opinion, as are we all.

That said, when it comes to a character like Superman, who is not only an intensely valuable commercial property, but a pop-cultural icon than appeals to millions, if not billions, of people, a centrist approach might be the best way to go.

I don't think he should be explicitly political all the time, but Superman should be bold in the face of injustice, and sometimes a bold moral stance is what's necessary in controversial sociological scenarios. It's the only way we've won rights and established new norms of decency. If anything his popularity should make him challenge what fans think about heroism and social justice, not shy away from it.

In general I think Superman should be empowering humans to work through these issues themselves as long as blood isn't being spilled. Standing in the square for the protests is such a perfect example. He's not endorsing the message or stifling it or threatening the powers at be, he's allowing people to be politically active and protecting them from the dangers of a power imbalance.

[Ascended]

he's allowing people to be politically active and protecting them from the dangers of a power imbalance.

Which would be taken as a political message in today's over-charged, overly-sensitive world.

That's the thing. The smart business is to have Clark as apolitical as possible in order to not alienate any particular political party. But that's actually impossible now. There was a panel (I didnt read the book but I hear stories) where Clark saved some immigrants from gun fire. Maybe they were just immigrants, maybe they were illegal, I don't know, but Clark saved some lives. And the right went nuts, making all manner of foolish claims.

And if the same story was told, but Clark saved the lives of a known racist, the left would react the same way. And we're not even talking hitler here, we're talking some good ol' boy who keeps his crap racist opinions to himself and votes red.

So, if you cannot make a statement as simple as "saving lives is good" then f*ck it, might as well go all in. I'd love to see a writer really dive into Clark's politics and the impact Superman has on the political landscape. It'd have to be the right talent of course, because otherwise you'd get their own opinions forced through Clark's mouth, but if everything is going to be taken as a political statement then you might as well make it work for you.

As an aside, it's been a really long damn week and I'm sick. I might not actually agree with myself once I'm of clearer mind. But right now? I'm fed up with both sides and I'd love to see Clark stomp on some political issues.

And yes, you can totally write a character with different political views than your own. I think Clark likely has several political opinions I myself disagree with, but I could still write the character as expressing those ideas without changing who he is (in my perception) so he's just a mouthpiece for my own thoughts.

[Flashback]

Which would be taken as a political message in today's over-charged, overly-sensitive world.

That's the thing. The smart business is to have Clark as apolitical as possible in order to not alienate any particular political party. But that's actually impossible now. There was a panel (I didnt read the book but I hear stories) where Clark saved some immigrants from gun fire. Maybe they were just immigrants, maybe they were illegal, I don't know, but Clark saved some lives. And the right went nuts, making all manner of foolish claims.

And if the same story was told, but Clark saved the lives of a known racist, the left would react the same way. And we're not even talking hitler here, we're talking some good ol' boy who keeps his crap racist opinions to himself and votes red.

So, if you cannot make a statement as simple as "saving lives is good" then f*ck it, might as well go all in. I'd love to see a writer really dive into Clark's politics and the impact Superman has on the political landscape. It'd have to be the right talent of course, because otherwise you'd get their own opinions forced through Clark's mouth, but if everything is going to be taken as a political statement then you might as well make it work for you.

As an aside, it's been a really long damn week and I'm sick. I might not actually agree with myself once I'm of clearer mind. But right now? I'm fed up with both sides and I'd love to see Clark stomp on some political issues.

And yes, you can totally a character with different political views than your own. I think Clark likely has several political opinions I myself disagree with, but I could still write the character as expressing those ideas without changing who he is (in my perception) so he's just a mouthpiece for my own thoughts.

Wait...what?

how does that work.

[Ascended]

Wait...what?

how does that work.

I mean like a person who is racist but doesn't march in the streets or burn crosses in people's yards or something. Like, this person was maybe one of those fools who thought Obama was from Iraq and thinks immigrants are the reason he can't get a job, but isn't a member of a white supremacy group or whatever.

Yeah, sorry about that. Obviously not thinking it through and expressing it properly. lol.

[Jim Kelly]

Well, I understand that Americans are the main audience, so with their highly polarized attitudes, seeing everything as liberal or conservative and nothing else, they'll try to impose that logic on every story.

However, that's not a universal reality. People outside of the United States don't think that way, although they may be politicized in other ways. But when you got a character like Superman, who comes from another planet--there's the opportunity to present an outside perspective on the ridiculous politics that consume our citizens.

Unfortunately, writers will use Krypton as an allegory to promote a particular American political agenda. And then it doesn't feel like a real alien planet.

There are events in our galaxy that have nothing to do with American partisan politics. Or do the Libertarians have something to say about the Fermi Paradox?

[kjn]

That's the thing. The smart business is to have Clark as apolitical as possible in order to not alienate any particular political party. But that's actually impossible now. There was a panel (I didnt read the book but I hear stories) where Clark saved some immigrants from gun fire. Maybe they were just immigrants, maybe they were illegal, I don't know, but Clark saved some lives. And the right went nuts, making all manner of foolish claims.

And if the same story was told, but Clark saved the lives of a known racist, the left would react the same way. And we're not even talking hitler here, we're talking some good ol' boy who keeps his crap racist opinions to himself and votes red.

Sorry, but I'm going to call bullcrap on that one.

First, by looking at actual political violence in the world. Racists, misogynists, and similar people are far more prone to do violence or go out to shoot people than progressives are, or women are, or most minorities are.

Second, you are comparing a factual situation to a hypothetical. Speaking as a flaming leftist by American standards, I don't want anyone to be shot.

[mrbrklyn]

No thanks, a centrist lack of principles is what has allowed hard-won gains to be lost amidst a constant drift to the right for both parties.

this belongs in a different section?

[Ascended]

Sorry, but I'm going to call bullcrap on that one.

No worries, call me out anytime if you think I'm in the wrong. Sometimes I just might very well be. Especially when I've been sick, over-tired, and am not fully cognizant of what I'm writing. lol

First, by looking at actual political violence in the world. Racists, misogynists, and similar people are far more prone to do violence or go out to shoot people than progressives are, or women are, or most minorities are.

I'm not sure what any of that has to do with Clark saving lives, honestly.

Clark's gonna save someone from a bullet. That person doesn't have to meet his political or ethical standards, Clark's gonna save the life because he thinks all life has value and is worth saving.

Second, you are comparing a factual situation to a hypothetical. Speaking as a flaming leftist by American standards, I don't want anyone to be shot.

No, I'm comparing a fictional story where Clark saved some immigrants (and morons threw a fit over it) to a hypothetical fictional story where Clark saves some good ol' boy who thought Obama was Iraqi.

I mean, come on, Clark has saved the lives of super villains. Actual, costumed, super-powered villains who were responsible for murders, theft, mass destruction, and worse. If he saves those guys, he's going to save everyone, regardless of whether the person in question is a piece of sh*t or not.