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  1. #1
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    Default Should Superman be an agent of change or a maintainer of the status quo?

    Should Superman be an agent of change or a maintainer of the status quo? Superman saving the Earth from Brainiac would get support from everyone, but should Superman get involved in local or political issues?

  2. #2
    Incredible Member RepHope's Avatar
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    Double post

  3. #3
    Incredible Member RepHope's Avatar
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    This is something Bendis is actually making a part of his run, so Iíll be interested to see what stance he takes. As a Big Two hero in a shared universe thereís not much he can do to change thing on Earth-0.

  4. #4

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    I’ve always felt there was more he could do just in general. Thankfully, Bendis seems to feel the same. The name “The Unity Saga” seems to be Bendis and DC pointing at the creation of the United Planets being a plot point in this run, in my opinion. And that would be a pretty huge status quo change.

  5. #5
    Incredible Member SuperCrab's Avatar
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    Its a balance. Superman as benevolent alien overlord I think would feel oppressive and cause humanity to miss out on defining its own social evolution in its own way. And that's assuming he could remain a benevolent alien overlord- you know what they say about power corruptimg and absolute power corrupting absolutely. Most depictions of Krypton show a pretty dysfunctiinal society anyway, so Superman doesn't necessarily automatically know the perfect formula anyway, even if we were to disregard our own right to determine our path as a species and were willing to take a proven formula if offered- there is no proven formula.

    That said, I think there is definitely room for a muckraking Clark Kent who investigates systematic inequality and is an editorial voice for the voiceless. That's not someone using his powers to forceably change our direction- that's a man with a typewriter, a computer, and/or a cellphone with an opinion. His alienness doesn't grant him an edge there, he's doing what any human being could do, but perhaps is more committed to it than nost.

    One thing that would have been interesting if Truth had played out longer and we saw a Clark Kent who the world knew was or had been Superman writing a column somewhere again eventually, would have been the use of his background in his writing. Afterall, Superman is the world's most famous refugee, and might have something to say about the way refugees are being treated today. He also barely escaped a planet where science that showed that the planet was collapsing was widely ignored, despite the warnings of the scientific community. Sounds a little lile global climate change, doesn't it? Yes, my Superman is a Democrat, although nit necessarily too radical a Democrat.

    I liked the Superman who stood with protesters during Truth. He tried to work things out and appealed to his friends on the force who he said he knew were good people, but in the end chained himself in between them and the protesters when the police came at them with clubs.

    I don't like the idea of Superman as one man regime change or dictating policy in any formal way though. The powers should be used to protect the planet from the things we can't stop on our own like alien invasions, as well as to protect people from violent criminals. His opinion might be sought and given, but I actually don't see the idea of him really running the world directly or semi-directly as good for him or the world. He's not infallible, and if he makes mistakes they could be big ones. In the end, we have to take responsibility for ourselves, make our own mistakes and have our own successes, and learn from them. I'll make an exception if there's a full scale nuclear war or something, Superman should definitely step in and deflect those missiles into the sun. I'm not sure its his place to, say, unilaterally rid the world of all its unfired nukes, though. That second thing is something he could write about in the paper.
    Last edited by SuperCrab; 07-11-2018 at 10:01 PM.

  6. #6
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    I think the question is whether Superman is actually any better than the average Joe at any of this. Sure he can make a big speech and push for some political agenda, but at the end of the day is there any reason to think that Superman has a better idea of what needs to get done than the mayor and city council of Metropolis?

    Does stopping a dozen drunk driving accidents give him any more insight into how to prevent people from drinking and driving? I doubt there is a person reading this that thinks letting people drive drunk (for example) is a good idea, but we might not all agree on whether a solution involves banning alcohol entirely, trying to control people's actions after they drink, harsher penalties, or some other scheme. And if we came up with an agreed solution would we all agree to pay the financial costs for implementing it. Now that you might have an idea that you think works and that you personally agree to fund- do you want to toss it aside because Superman has a different idea and he is well, Superman?

  7. #7
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    Well "Man of Tomorrow" and all that, I suppose. But there'd have to be a balance. I wouldn't want Clark to impose his will, and I'm super sure he wouldn't want to. He'd have to find something comfortable for him and the people of Earth. It doesn't all have to be Red Son or Injustice. Those are extremes. There's a long stretch to work in before you hit either.

    I mean, Reed Richards, Tony Stark, and T'challa are building Future Foundations, Iron Man think tanks, and space outpost all the time to help their world (or at leas the human race), so I don't see why Superman can't be a bit more proactive in his own way that he feels comfortable with.
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  8. #8
    Chosen One Carabas's Avatar
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    Agent of change, which he sadly can't be because he's part of the DCU.
    "One may be intelligent, and a Nazi. Then one is not decent. One may be decent and a Nazi. Then one is not intelligent. And one may be intelligent and decent. Then one is not a Nazi"
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  9. #9
    Astonishing Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Superman should work to change people through his actions as an example and inspire hope and change other wise it's a slippery slope of a God like being forcing his will on humanity and things like Checkmate, Project Cadmus, and billionaire Bats with Kryptonite become way more rational notions.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Well "Man of Tomorrow" and all that, I suppose. But there'd have to be a balance. I wouldn't want Clark to impose his will, and I'm super sure he wouldn't want to. He'd have to find something comfortable for him and the people of Earth. It doesn't all have to be Red Son or Injustice. Those are extremes. There's a long stretch to work in before you hit either.

    I mean, Reed Richards, Tony Stark, and T'challa are building Future Foundations, Iron Man think tanks, and space outpost all the time to help their world (or at leas the human race), so I don't see why Superman can't be a bit more proactive in his own way that he feels comfortable with.
    But we want to avoid getting into a false choice, where either Superman becomes a dictator or all he does is maintain the status quo, if Superman is supposed to be beloved by the public, that is a power in of itself. Superman is supposed to be the ultimate immigrant, so I do think he could speak out on immigration issues. Golden Age Superman got involved in social issues.
    Last edited by The Overlord; 07-12-2018 at 06:18 AM.

  11. #11
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    Superman was created to be an agent of change, and wasn't too shy about it. That said, he got so muscled up in the arms race with Captain Marvel, having him aggressively play that role now would make for a relatively short mini-series, and then pretty much end the DCU's story.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperCrab View Post
    Its a balance. Superman as benevolent alien overlord I think would feel oppressive and cause humanity to miss out on defining its own social evolution in its own way. And that's assuming he could remain a benevolent alien overlord- you know what they say about power corruptimg and absolute power corrupting absolutely. Most depictions of Krypton show a pretty dysfunctiinal society anyway, so Superman doesn't necessarily automatically know the perfect formula anyway, even if we were to disregard our own right to determine our path as a species and were willing to take a proven formula if offered- there is no proven formula.

    That said, I think there is definitely room for a muckraking Clark Kent who investigates systematic inequality and is an editorial voice for the voiceless. That's not someone using his powers to forceably change our direction- that's a man with a typewriter, a computer, and/or a cellphone with an opinion. His alienness doesn't grant him an edge there, he's doing what any human being could do, but perhaps is more committed to it than most.


    One thing that would have been interesting if Truth had played out longer and we saw a Clark Kent who the world knew was or had been Superman writing a column somewhere again eventually, would have been the use of his background in his writing. Afterall, Superman is the world's most famous refugee, and might have something to say about the way refugees are being treated today. He also barely escaped a planet where science that showed that the planet was collapsing was widely ignored, despite the warnings of the scientific community. Sounds a little lile global climate change, doesn't it? Yes, my Superman is a Democrat, although nit necessarily too radical a Democrat.

    I liked the Superman who stood with protesters during Truth. He tried to work things out and appealed to his friends on the force who he said he knew were good people, but in the end chained himself in between them and the protesters when the police came at them with clubs.

    I don't like the idea of Superman as one man regime change or dictating policy in any formal way though. The powers should be used to protect the planet from the things we can't stop on our own like alien invasions, as well as to protect people from violent criminals. His opinion might be sought and given, but I actually don't see the idea of him really running the world directly or semi-directly as good for him or the world. He's not infallible, and if he makes mistakes they could be big ones. In the end, we have to take responsibility for ourselves, make our own mistakes and have our own successes, and learn from them. I'll make an exception if there's a full scale nuclear war or something, Superman should definitely step in and deflect those missiles into the sun. I'm not sure its his place to, say, unilaterally rid the world of all its unfired nukes, though. That second thing is something he could write about in the paper.
    This.

    I too believe that Superman would be more restrained and be more of a symbol of hope and an inspiration to people to be their better selves, rather than some benevolent God imposing change. But I do believe that Clark Kent can take on a more activist role if necessary. That doesn't have to be a partisan one - mind you. I personally don't see Clark being an advocate of either the right or the left. But I do see him being someone who fights for the rights of individuals, who fights systemic corruption, who brings to light the plight of the underprivileged and vulnerable.

  13. #13
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    It depends what state the world is in. It made sense for Superman to be fighting against his own government as America was struggling to get out of a Depression where millions of people were suffering due to the follies of those at the top. But it would have been churlish for Superman to buck against the system when his country was readying for war against one of the evilest regimes the world has ever known.

    I think that Superman is someone who knows enough to know he doesn't know everything. I support the idea that Superman should be a super-genius and he has been all over the universe. He knows more philosophy than anyone--but he doesn't have the answers. He's seen how people who think they have the answers manage to screw it up for everyone. So he's not going to tell other people how to live their lives and he's not going to clean up everyone else's mess. But he's enough of a humanist that he's not going to stand by and let everything go to hell when he knows he can stop it.

    But Superman has to walk a fine line between helping others and making himself a god. It's these big philosophical problems that are his greatest weakness.
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  14. #14
    Mighty Member Adekis's Avatar
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    It's important to me that Superman be an agent of change, but equally important that he's an agent of change in the "everyone's doing what they can, I can just do more than most," sense. He's obviously not out to take over the world, but the world that derives from him, the Legion's galaxy, is still basically a world created in Superman's image, and he knows where history is going and he wants it to get there.
    "You know the deal, Metropolis. Treat people right or expect a visit from me."

  15. #15
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    a physical marvel

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    Superman is destined to reshape the destiny of a world
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