Why no Tim Drake? Is it due to sales numbers?

[Ascended]

The Spiel used to sell Tim and make him part of the family is what makes him redundant these days.

You speak of the character depending on Batman or the others to have a function. But most of his good stories where about him as a character dealing with issues unrelated to the family.

I think you're both right.

The whole point of Tim becoming Robin was because other people needed that role filled.

But Tim was, very early on, a bigger character than just that role.

And while the original role that brought Tim to the Robin costume is no longer viable, that doesn't mean Tim himself isn't viable. If we hold Tim to that original role and narrative purpose, and refuse to let him grow or evolve, then we must also complain about Dick growing up, becoming Nightwing, and forging a life for himself away from Bruce.

Tim can still have a purpose and role in the Cave, it just can't be what it was twenty years ago. The only problem right now is that DC hasn't figured out what that role is yet. But that's something that'll come in time.

[oasis1313]

I think you're both right.

The whole point of Tim becoming Robin was because other people needed that role filled.

But Tim was, very early on, a bigger character than just that role.

And while the original role that brought Tim to the Robin costume is no longer viable, that doesn't mean Tim himself isn't viable. If we hold Tim to that original role and narrative purpose, and refuse to let him grow or evolve, then we must also complain about Dick growing up, becoming Nightwing, and forging a life for himself away from Bruce.

Tim can still have a purpose and role in the Cave, it just can't be what it was twenty years ago. The only problem right now is that DC hasn't figured out what that role is yet. But that's something that'll come in time.

What does Tim need with a musty, guano-filled old cave when he builds self-repairing buildings and other engineering marvels? He should have his own Fortress of Timitude.

[Mataza]

What does Tim need with a musty, guano-filled old cave when he builds self-repairing buildings and other engineering marvels? He should have his own Fortress of Timitude.

He did, below the theater, i thought it was a cool idea to a character that was so inspired by Batmans methods.

Self repairing buildings are a thing btw, its old tech by now. Not that i believe even for a second that Tim should be tech oriented. He designed like 2-3 things in his entire run. Rocket rollers, the tech behind the newer domino mask that he used in OYL, and some other silly things. Other than that he just borrowed tech and wrestled with it.

Not this large scale, constantly updating tech driven character. But a practical one that understood the science and just made modifications when needed.

[Ascended]

He did, below the theater, i thought it was a cool idea to a character that was so inspired by Batmans methods.

Self repairing buildings are a thing btw, its old tech by now. Not that i believe even for a second that Tim should be tech oriented. He designed like 2-3 things in his entire run. Rocket rollers, the tech behind the newer domino mask that he used in OYL, and some other silly things. Other than that he just borrowed tech and wrestled with it.

Not this large scale, constantly updating tech driven character. But a practical one that understood the science and just made modifications when needed.

No, Tim shouldn't be the hyper-genius tech guy. He should be tech literate, but he's no Michael Holt.

Personally, I think the most appealing "niche" for Tim is that of the pulp detective. With DC moving Batman further and further away from that kind of sensibility and story, I think Tim is perfectly placed to step in and fill that narrative. He's always been the detective and Everyman of the Batcave, and I think he'd fit nicely in a pulp setting.

Since Babs left the Oracle role Gotham doesn't really have a dedicated tech-guru, but I'd rather see Babs return to that than see Tim re-purposed to fill it. The hyper-genius that Tynion wrote just isn't who Tim is meant to be and I don't think the character would be done any favors by keeping him in this position.

[scary harpy]

Since Babs left the Oracle role Gotham doesn't really have a dedicated tech-guru, but I'd rather see Babs return to that than see Tim re-purposed to fill it. The hyper-genius that Tynion wrote just isn't who Tim is meant to be and I don't think the character would be done any favors by keeping him in this position.

Really. I think Stephanie & Tim should be Oracle.

Together, they could be better than Barbara...and they don't have to be crippled to do it!

[WhipWhirlwind]

No, Tim shouldn't be the hyper-genius tech guy. He should be tech literate, but he's no Michael Holt.

Personally, I think the most appealing "niche" for Tim is that of the pulp detective. With DC moving Batman further and further away from that kind of sensibility and story, I think Tim is perfectly placed to step in and fill that narrative. He's always been the detective and Everyman of the Batcave, and I think he'd fit nicely in a pulp setting.

Since Babs left the Oracle role Gotham doesn't really have a dedicated tech-guru, but I'd rather see Babs return to that than see Tim re-purposed to fill it. The hyper-genius that Tynion wrote just isn't who Tim is meant to be and I don't think the character would be done any favors by keeping him in this position.

Honestly, Oracle should be an AI the same way Jarvis was in the MCU movies. The interesting part of Babs as Oracle was how it tied into her recovery and identity as a person/superhero. The role itself isn't very exciting, for every 1337 hacker feat that is actually interesting there are dozens of "let me google that for you" moments.

I do think he should be 2nd in terms of tech knowledge behind babs, but it should be more self taught shortcuts than full scale solutions.

Less self repairing buildings, more integrating social media posts into the bat computer to supplement official (police/fire/medical) information channels.

[Ascended]

Really. I think Stephanie & Tim should be Oracle.

Together, they could be better than Barbara...and they don't have to be crippled to do it!

It'd be interesting to have a team dedicated to the I.T. elements of crime fighting, certainly. But I'd really rather not see Tim inherit another mantle that isn't actually his own. Let him build his own identity. Hell, he'd be the first ex-Robin to do so!

Mostly though, I want to see Babs take Oracle back. I know some of her fans hated that she wasn't running around rooftops kicking people in the teeth, but I thought she was far more interesting and important as Oracle than she ever was as Batgirl. And the last seven years have only reinforced that opinion. There's lots of people who can run across rooftops and kick people in the teeth (and Babs can still do that! Being Oracle doesnt mean having to be disabled), but Oracle provided a unique service for the heroic community and her efforts made the heroes better and saved more lives (as well as the world itself). She was far more than just Google; she dealt with cyber threats no one else even knew existed and could do things with a computer that no one outside of Victor Stone could even begin to grasp. Babs accomplished far more as Oracle than she did as Batgirl, and I hate that she was demoted from "nerve center of the entire heroic community" to "redundant Gotham vigilante" in the New52. I know people will argue that her sitting in front of a screen isn't as interesting as her kicking people in the teeth, but I disagree. I find the idea of a hacker war with Calculator far more interesting than another fist fight with psychos and mobsters. >shrug<

Honestly, Oracle should be an AI the same way Jarvis was in the MCU movies. The interesting part of Babs as Oracle was how it tied into her recovery and identity as a person/superhero. The role itself isn't very exciting, for every 1337 hacker feat that is actually interesting there are dozens of "let me google that for you" moments.

I do think he should be 2nd in terms of tech knowledge behind babs, but it should be more self taught shortcuts than full scale solutions.

Less self repairing buildings, more integrating social media posts into the bat computer to supplement official (police/fire/medical) information channels.

Oracle as an AI is a fascinating idea and I wouldn't be against trying it out, but isn't that basically just Brother Eye, before the satellite went rogue?

If I had my druthers, I'd have Babs return to Oracle but make it more physically involved. Rather than *just* sitting at her laptop, Babs would be sitting at her laptop as well as sneaking into secure locations to insert computer viruses directly into closed-systems mainframes, going on a space walk to plug into and take control of a foreign war satellite, etc. All the covert spy stuff that Babs had the Birds of Prey do could be folded into an expanded (and mobile) Oracle role for Babs.

But that's just my opinion.

[scary harpy]

It'd be interesting to have a team dedicated to the I.T. elements of crime fighting, certainly. But I'd really rather not see Tim inherit another mantle that isn't actually his own. Let him build his own identity. Hell, he'd be the first ex-Robin to do so!

A team dedicated to the I.T. elements of crime fighting...

I Like It!

Tim, Stephanie, Cassie, Conner, and Bart!

They would have their own niche in the DCU...and the later three need job skills.

[SixSpeedSamurai]

A team dedicated to the I.T. elements of crime fighting...

I Like It!

Tim, Stephanie, Cassie, Conner, and Bart!

They would have their own niche in the DCU...and the later three need job skills.

Millennial Titans?

[WhipWhirlwind]

It'd be interesting to have a team dedicated to the I.T. elements of crime fighting, certainly. But I'd really rather not see Tim inherit another mantle that isn't actually his own. Let him build his own identity. Hell, he'd be the first ex-Robin to do so!

Mostly though, I want to see Babs take Oracle back. I know some of her fans hated that she wasn't running around rooftops kicking people in the teeth, but I thought she was far more interesting and important as Oracle than she ever was as Batgirl. And the last seven years have only reinforced that opinion. There's lots of people who can run across rooftops and kick people in the teeth (and Babs can still do that! Being Oracle doesnt mean having to be disabled), but Oracle provided a unique service for the heroic community and her efforts made the heroes better and saved more lives (as well as the world itself). She was far more than just Google; she dealt with cyber threats no one else even knew existed and could do things with a computer that no one outside of Victor Stone could even begin to grasp. Babs accomplished far more as Oracle than she did as Batgirl, and I hate that she was demoted from "nerve center of the entire heroic community" to "redundant Gotham vigilante" in the New52. I know people will argue that her sitting in front of a screen isn't as interesting as her kicking people in the teeth, but I disagree. I find the idea of a hacker war with Calculator far more interesting than another fist fight with psychos and mobsters. >shrug<



Oracle as an AI is a fascinating idea and I wouldn't be against trying it out, but isn't that basically just Brother Eye, before the satellite went rogue?

If I had my druthers, I'd have Babs return to Oracle but make it more physically involved. Rather than *just* sitting at her laptop, Babs would be sitting at her laptop as well as sneaking into secure locations to insert computer viruses directly into closed-systems mainframes, going on a space walk to plug into and take control of a foreign war satellite, etc. All the covert spy stuff that Babs had the Birds of Prey do could be folded into an expanded (and mobile) Oracle role for Babs.

But that's just my opinion.

So I absolutely love everything about this take, and it leads me to revising my own.

Its not that I have no faith in the Oracle concept beyond just googling stuff, its that I have no faith in DC creatives/editorial to write compelling technological crime/superhero fiction the way you describe it.

EDIT: Also, tip of the hat, I feel like every single "What should be done with character x?" thread ends with me wishing you ran DC Comics.

[scary harpy]

A team dedicated to the I.T. elements of crime fighting...

I Like It!

Tim, Stephanie, Cassie, Conner, and Bart!

They would have their own niche in the DCU...and the later three need job skills.

Millennial Titans?

Young Just-Tech

[Ascended]

So I absolutely love everything about this take, and it leads me to revising my own.

Its not that I have no faith in the Oracle concept beyond just googling stuff, its that I have no faith in DC creatives/editorial to write compelling technological crime/superhero fiction the way you describe it.

Yeah, writers who can properly handle that sort of thing are few and far between at the Big 2. You'd need a cyberpunk writer from the UK or something.

But that's a fairly small hurdle to jump, I'd think. I mean, it's not that good hacker/cyberpunk writers are rare....it's just that the Big 2 don't usually hire them.

EDIT: Also, tip of the hat, I feel like every single "What should be done with character x?" thread ends with me wishing you ran DC Comics.

Aw, thanks man! >bro-fist!<

[oasis1313]

Young Just-Tech

League of Geeks.

[Godlike13]

Alright, that’s a pretty good burn right there.

[sanderling]

League of Geeks.

I'd buy a book with that premise!