Why no Tim Drake? Is it due to sales numbers?

[sunofdarkchild]

This. Completely agree.

That brat is the reason why Nightwing and Red Hood are struggling and not in Use. I wish they were still Robins maybe then they'll get a title and stories.

Steph too. As soon as Damian became Robin Steph disappeared from all books because she was no longer Robin.

????

Is this sarcastic? Steph was killed off before Damian's creation and brought back around the time Damian became Robin. She then became Batgirl and had her own run which was cut short by the Nu52, when they decided to get rid of her and Cass so Babs could be Batgirl again.

On topic, DC never understood Tim. Going back to the 90s they wanted to kill off his father so that he'd be an orphan like Bruce and Dick to make him into a mini-Bruce. Dixon managed to prevent this while he was still writing him full-time, but after Dixon left editorial finally pulled the plug on what they'd wanted to do for years, and lo and behold they ruined him and got rid of the supporting cast that helped make him relateable in the first place.

[MajorHoy]

What show are people watching that stars Tim or Red Robin, because YJ certainly wasn't that show. But ya, they hate Tim and his generation. Thats why they kicked other generations to the curb with the new 52, but kept Tim and his generation, despite the shorten time line, and tried to launch a line around them.

I don't think "they" really "hated" Tim and his generation.
I think that the problem was more about the de-aging of the main DC characters and then not being able to logically work in all the other generations to a new, shortened timeline. (Look at all the complaints from DC trying to hang onto all the male Robins without having Dick start his career as a pre-teen!)

[adrikito]

Because Damian. It's too bad. Tim should be the main Robin.

Yeah.. With 12 years of existence and exiled from the Batfamily books since the begin of rebirth Tim recent problems are Damian fault not from Duke Thomas who replaced him in Detective Comics..

Seems that you wanted him as Robin FOREVER..

[Mataza]

Neither Duke nor Damian are to blame. Its all on editorial.

[RepHope]

Oh boy, how do I put this. I’m just gonna come out and say it. Right now Tim’s a dead end. The Red Robin persona hasn’t really taken off, he doesn’t fit into things as comfortably anymore, and they don’t seem to really know where to go with him (so they just had him follow in the foot steps of others).

Now if they really tried could they change this, yes, but it doesn’t seem like that’s a priority right now. And what more, there doesn’t look to be anything to change that. If they’re lucky maybe people will get a Young Justice with him. But even with Young Justice, these days the Young Justice more people are probably familiar with is the one they saw on tv. A Young Justice Tim played a minor role in, and Red Robin had no role.

For the record I agree with you. Everything that made Tim special is gone, he's the odd man out of the Robins. Frankly I think they should either A. Give him a new name that doesn't include the word "Robin" and have him as one of the protagonists of a Young Justice ongoing, or B. Have him retire from crime-fighting and have him become a detective at the GCPD. Tim's always been the best detective of the Robins, why not lean into that?

[Frontier]

They should just retire him. 4 Robins in continuity is just too many, and he is by far the one with the least amount of material to work with. We have a current Robin, the original Robin who is a far bigger deal and was the first to graduate to an adult hero and strike out on his own (and who struggles himself, so what chance does Tim have?), and the former Robin who died and came back as an anti-hero/villain. What direction is there to cover with him that isn't being done by one of the others? Red Robin didn't take off because it was a stupid name, and Bruce/Dick/Damian function more interestingly as a unit than Bruce/Dick/Tim ever did.

I wouldn't say he has the least amount of material to work with when he had a solo run that lasted 100+ issues, which is more then some of the other Robins can say.

Tim had his own niche that none of the other Robins really fulfill but it's not one DC has capitalized on for years. Tynion probably came close to capturing it again, but I don't think he succeeded. Of course, it probably also doesn't help that DC hasn't taken the chances with Tim that they have with other characters, but such is the fate of popular 90's Batfamily characters.

I don't know if the name had anything to do with him not taking off, since it was a name that was able to carry a solo book up until Flashpoint.

For the record I agree with you. Everything that made Tim special is gone, he's the odd man out of the Robins. Frankly I think they should either A. Give him a new name that doesn't include the word "Robin" and have him as one of the protagonists of a Young Justice ongoing, or B. Have him retire from crime-fighting and have him become a detective at the GCPD. Tim's always been the best detective of the Robins, why not lean into that?

Considering how lucky we are when a member of the GCPD not named Gordon gets any kind of focus or screentime, I'm not sure that would be a good shift for Tim at this point.

[lefthanded]

Great thoughts by a lot of posters.

Yeah, it seems from a business standpoint there's no reason not to have a Robin solo or a Tim Drake book. I guess it more has to do with editorial and creative directions.

Flashpoint really did muck up with a lot of characters - they wanted the benefit of the history while allowing them to showcase more 'amateur' heroes at the beginning of their career. Definitely hurt the BatFamily, as Batman has accrued a lot of Robin's and sidekicks that doesn't really make sense in a more condensed timeline. That seems to be even compounded by the addition of even more sidekicks - Harper Row, Duke Thomas. Couple that with bringing back Cassandra as Orphan, I don't think even Batman can sustain that many titles without diluting the brand.

I do disagree with how it would be hard to write a comic around Tim. Out of all the Robin's, he has the most Batman characteristics - detective skills, combat, strategy, etc (but definitely not at Bruce's level) - without the baggage of Batman. So, if you can write stories about Batman, you can write about Tim but with a less dark slant (although I disliked Tynion's future BatTim)

[MajorHoy]

. . . Considering how lucky we are when a member of the GCPD not named Gordon gets any kind of focus or screentime, I'm not sure that would be a good shift for Tim at this point.

Is Harvey Bullock showing up much (at all?) under Rebirth?

[RepHope]

I wouldn't say he has the least amount of material to work with when he had a solo run that lasted 100+ issues, which is more then some of the other Robins can say.

Tim had his own niche that none of the other Robins really fulfill but it's not one DC has capitalized on for years. Tynion probably came close to capturing it again, but I don't think he succeeded. Of course, it probably also doesn't help that DC hasn't taken the chances with Tim that they have with other characters, but such is the fate of popular 90's Batfamily characters.

I don't know if the name had anything to do with him not taking off, since it was a name that was able to carry a solo book up until Flashpoint.

Considering how lucky we are when a member of the GCPD not named Gordon gets any kind of focus or screentime, I'm not sure that would be a good shift for Tim at this point.

I was thinking of maybe putting out another Gotham Central ongoing starring Tim. It would certainly be a chance to show off his detective skills. Maybe just have him intern there, so he has a chance to actually show up in Batman now and then?

[Frontier]

Is Harvey Bullock showing up much (at all?) under Rebirth?

He's made a few appearances in 'Tec.

[Mataza]

For the record I agree with you. Everything that made Tim special is gone, he's the odd man out of the Robins.

Thats the whole issue. Everything that made Tim special is gone. He exists in a void where the only thing we know happened is that he was Robin because Batman needed a partner.

Its not just his character growth thats gone, its his attitude towards crimefighting, towards life. Every relationship he ever held be it good or bad, gone. He feels as shallow and empty as harper or duke.

But even then, with a solo and a writer willing to bring it all back you could solve it. The biggest problem is the fact that DC wont let that happen.

[oasis1313]

Damian also doesn't have a personality that makes him easy to get along with. For all his competence, he is still a bratty kid that the other characters didn't like when they first met him. Gary Stu's are loved by everybody and are never wrong. It's why his current interactions with them feel way more earned.

Damian has the worst mother in the world and a dad who's as distant as Pluto (when he's at his best). He's trying to live up to Bruce (and Dick's) expectations of him, he was not raised with any social skills whatsoever, and a LOT of what he says is just a child's bluff and shouldn't be taken seriously (like when he said he knew how to make his heart move in his chest). There's a lot going on with him, and the fact that he has to get rescued (mostly by Dick) so darned OFTEN is the giveaway that Damian isn't as good as he brags that he is. He's just a child, trying to be accepted but not knowing how to get there, and I enjoy watching his progress because he does fall flat on his face then has to get back up.

Tim, on the other hand, is the perfect beloved Gary Stu. DC should give him his own book, written by Tynion and drawn by To, for the sole purpose of indulging their adoration of Tim Drake. They can draw a paycheck and heap upon their darling all the unlimited brain power, meta abilities, harems--whatever--they want, and Tim's fans wouldn't be left out with nothing to buy and no opportunity to see their fav character. As a long-suffering Wingnut, I understand exactly how they feel. I fear the days of Brian Bolland artwork and Bowen sculpted statues may be behind Tim as newer sidekicks are introduced and pushed, but as long as he has such a vocal fan base, Tim will always be back. Besides, he's the only character I know of in comics who has been guaranteed never to get killed off. Those are good odds.

[king81992]

Damian has the worst mother in the world and a dad who's as distant as Pluto (when he's at his best). He's trying to live up to Bruce (and Dick's) expectations of him, he was not raised with any social skills whatsoever, and a LOT of what he says is just a child's bluff and shouldn't be taken seriously (like when he said he knew how to make his heart move in his chest). There's a lot going on with him, and the fact that he has to get rescued (mostly by Dick) so darned OFTEN is the giveaway that Damian isn't as good as he brags that he is. He's just a child, trying to be accepted but not knowing how to get there, and I enjoy watching his progress because he does fall flat on his face then has to get back up.

Tim, on the other hand, is the perfect beloved Gary Stu. DC should give him his own book, written by Tynion and drawn by To, for the sole purpose of indulging their adoration of Tim Drake. They can draw a paycheck and heap upon their darling all the unlimited brain power, meta abilities, harems--whatever--they want, and Tim's fans wouldn't be left out with nothing to buy and no opportunity to see their fav character. As a long-suffering Wingnut, I understand exactly how they feel. I fear the days of Brian Bolland artwork and Bowen sculpted statues may be behind Tim as newer sidekicks are introduced and pushed, but as long as he has such a vocal fan base, Tim will always be back. Besides, he's the only character I know of in comics who has been guaranteed never to get killed off. Those are good odds.

Tim was never really a Gary Stu in my opinion. He was always the straight man to whatever wackiness was going on around him. A lot of people blame Damian's push for Tim getting shafted but that wasn't the main reason. Tim(and the entire YJ generation) got screwed over because writers kept trying to make them into a darker characters. Not every character was meant to be dark.

Best thing for Tim is to just have him do detective stuff or put him in a lighter team book with wackier characters.

[Lady Nightwing]

Tim was never really a Gary Stu in my opinion.

He wasn't originally but Tynion made him into one. He had impossible tech, impossible hacking feats and characters were always espousing about how great and smart he is.

I don't think Duke is the reason for Tim's treatment at DC. Damian might be, not as a replacement but as a more dynamic and marketable alternative.

I think Tim was in decline when Red Robin ended and he went into freefall with the Nu52.

One major flaw with Tim in current comics is his hacker/genius persona. Comics are a visual medium and a guy tapping away at his wrist computer is not as visually appealing as Dicks acrobatics or Damian riding into battle on an enormous red bat monster.

[Rac7d*]

I was thinking of maybe putting out another Gotham Central ongoing starring Tim. It would certainly be a chance to show off his detective skills. Maybe just have him intern there, so he has a chance to actually show up in Batman now and then?

If Gotham PD can do their jobs then we wouldnt need batman so doubt it
Tim not gonna get this
[IMG]https://img1.ak.****************/i/spire1/9a7a5344da62f8ef696654e5ec363b6c1413505831_full.jp g[/IMG]

His trait is team nerd, which is not even unique in DC so his best bet is to Be Mission control along with alfred in the batcave if he wants a consitent role, mabey some kind of charlies angle type series with steph and cass, but him and his generation is lost, I would even argue he hurts Raven and Beastboy, since they have now been tethered to him