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  1. #76
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Not reading the whole thread, but.....

    I dont think sales figures have much to do with it.

    It's hard to judge how viable Tim is right now because he hasn't had anything close to a solo. He's been saddled with a broken, mostly-dead franchise in the Titans with a writer who isn't very popular, and then he got put into a Bat-book where sales are always solid, with a writer DC has a lot of faith in. Tim's name wasn't on the cover in either case. Was the success (or lack thereof) of those books due in any part to Tim? DC might have market research to answer that question, but we don't.

    The other Bat-kids have either recently had solo's, team titles with their names on the cover, or both. That shows their viability far more than what Tim has seen lately.

    I suspect the problem DC has with Tim is the same problem they have with Tim's entire generation. The Young Justice kids are no longer the new up-and-comers, since we have Damien and Jon, but they're not the young adults and OG sidekicks that Dick's generation is. DC hasn't seemed to have an idea for what to do with these kids for a long time.

    However, it does seem clear that DC has finally figured out what they want to do with the YJ generation, and we've been seeing a slow burn buildup since Rebirth started. We've seen Conner hinted at and mentioned and *a* version of him showed up at one point. Tim played a huge role in 'Tec. And Bart just finally found his way home. So we're getting back to these characters, DC is just dragging their feet about it. What ends up happening with them? I have no idea. But I strongly suspect the lack of the YJ kids (or the utter butchering of their characters) has more to do with DC's creativity than it does with sales.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

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  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Not reading the whole thread, but.....

    I dont think sales figures have much to do with it.

    It's hard to judge how viable Tim is right now because he hasn't had anything close to a solo. He's been saddled with a broken, mostly-dead franchise in the Titans with a writer who isn't very popular, and then he got put into a Bat-book where sales are always solid, with a writer DC has a lot of faith in. Tim's name wasn't on the cover in either case. Was the success (or lack thereof) of those books due in any part to Tim? DC might have market research to answer that question, but we don't.

    The other Bat-kids have either recently had solo's, team titles with their names on the cover, or both. That shows their viability far more than what Tim has seen lately.

    I suspect the problem DC has with Tim is the same problem they have with Tim's entire generation. The Young Justice kids are no longer the new up-and-comers, since we have Damien and Jon, but they're not the young adults and OG sidekicks that Dick's generation is. DC hasn't seemed to have an idea for what to do with these kids for a long time.

    However, it does seem clear that DC has finally figured out what they want to do with the YJ generation, and we've been seeing a slow burn buildup since Rebirth started. We've seen Conner hinted at and mentioned and *a* version of him showed up at one point. Tim played a huge role in 'Tec. And Bart just finally found his way home. So we're getting back to these characters, DC is just dragging their feet about it. What ends up happening with them? I have no idea. But I strongly suspect the lack of the YJ kids (or the utter butchering of their characters) has more to do with DC's creativity than it does with sales.
    If connor came back I woundlt be surprised if he end up bonding with jason instead
    like super girl and bizaro has recently

  3. #78

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    Tim needs a new purpose/niche and he needs a book like "grayson" to reinvigorate him/open new doors. He can't go back to being the everyman robin with the potential to be worse/better than bruce. I thought him going to college might have been the best play for him.

    New 52 screwed his generation over because they kept trying to have their cake and eat it without rethinking how legacy characters should operate. Legacy characters work better in a universe where mantles could be passed on from person to person. With everybody being only 5 years active this wasn't achievable. Best option would have been to focus on Dick's generation while leaving the others on the shelf to be reworked for later.
    Last edited by the illustrious mr. kenway; 07-16-2018 at 07:28 AM.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post
    Tim needs a new purpose/niche and he needs a book like "grayson" to reinvigorate him/open new doors. He can't go back to being the everyman robin with the potential to be worse/better than bruce. I thought him going to college might have been the best play for him.

    New 52 screwed his generation over because they kept trying to have their cake and eat it without rethinking how legacy characters should operate. Legacy characters work better in a universe where mantles could be passed on from person to person. With everybody being only 5 years active this wasn't achievable. Best option would have been to focus on Dick's generation while leaving the others on the shelf to be reworked for later.
    But why would DC do that for him, what can he give them that someone else can;t at this point cass and steph are better investments

  5. #80
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Not reading the whole thread, but.....

    I dont think sales figures have much to do with it.

    It's hard to judge how viable Tim is right now because he hasn't had anything close to a solo. He's been saddled with a broken, mostly-dead franchise in the Titans with a writer who isn't very popular, and then he got put into a Bat-book where sales are always solid, with a writer DC has a lot of faith in. Tim's name wasn't on the cover in either case. Was the success (or lack thereof) of those books due in any part to Tim? DC might have market research to answer that question, but we don't.

    The other Bat-kids have either recently had solo's, team titles with their names on the cover, or both. That shows their viability far more than what Tim has seen lately.

    I suspect the problem DC has with Tim is the same problem they have with Tim's entire generation. The Young Justice kids are no longer the new up-and-comers, since we have Damien and Jon, but they're not the young adults and OG sidekicks that Dick's generation is. DC hasn't seemed to have an idea for what to do with these kids for a long time.

    However, it does seem clear that DC has finally figured out what they want to do with the YJ generation, and we've been seeing a slow burn buildup since Rebirth started. We've seen Conner hinted at and mentioned and *a* version of him showed up at one point. Tim played a huge role in 'Tec. And Bart just finally found his way home. So we're getting back to these characters, DC is just dragging their feet about it. What ends up happening with them? I have no idea. But I strongly suspect the lack of the YJ kids (or the utter butchering of their characters) has more to do with DC's creativity than it does with sales.
    Thats not really fair to Teen Titans, or to what DC was actully trying to do at the time. The franchise wasn't dead when the put Tim on it, its not even dead now, as evident by things like TTGo, and Lobdell became not very popular till after the TT run. When they gave Tim and his generation TTs, despite this new time line, they were not putting them in a dead franchise, but trying to launch a line around them. They were the center piece to an entire line for DC.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 07-16-2018 at 07:54 AM.

  6. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    But why would DC do that for him, what can he give them that someone else can;t at this point cass and steph are better investments
    not the point of the thread nor something I can answer.

  7. #82
    Astonishing Member Fergus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    But why would DC do that for him, what can he give them that someone else can;t at this point cass and steph are better investments
    That's the thing with Legacy characters in comics. You can only have so many.

    And you are correct that Tim doesn't bring anything special of unique to the franchise. Yes he modernised the Robin franchise by getting a more up to date look. He was also the Robin that went solo and showed that Robin doesn't need Batman and vice verse but he isn't vital to the franchise or the Batman myth.

    Dick Grayson is the face of Robin. He is the original. There is no Batman and Robin without Dick Grayson so his position is locked in

    Jason is the one that dead That is a part of the Bat myth that is locked in. Dick Grayson as Robin and Robin dying are a pat of PoP Culture that's here to change.

    Damian is the Son. His position is as much a lock as Dick and Jason's but he has much more to offer than Tim. He can offer something that Tim can't.

    Tim was a part of some great stories but Duke is the Everyman now.

  8. #83
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    But why would DC do that for him, what can he give them that someone else can;t at this point cass and steph are better investments
    I love Steph more than Tim, but I don't think there's really any way to know that.
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  9. #84
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    He just has no purpose or story for him right now. So him doing something seperate from the batfamily would be best.

  10. #85
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Thats not really fair to Teen Titans, or to what DC was actully trying to do at the time. The franchise wasn't dead when the put Tim on it, its not even dead now, as evident by things like TTGo, and Lobdell became not very popular till after the TT run. When they gave Tim and his generation TTs, despite this new time line, they were not putting them in a dead franchise, but trying to launch a line around them. They were the center piece to an entire line for DC.
    I suppose that's true. But the franchise had been in a decline since Johns left and the New52 just took a bigger nose dive.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Nightwing View Post
    I think in Tec, Future Bat Tim defeated Jason, Dick and Damian all at the same time because he practiced all their moves in a simulation or some other nonsense. I can't remember exactly.
    This was actually fairly well done. It goes with the themes of Rebirth. Dick, Jason and Damian are all inexperienced, they are weak compared to their pre-flashpoint incarnations. BatTim tells them that he trained himself against their best versions, the experienced ones that could give Batman a run for his money. It shows that future Tim actually admires his brothers to the point that he considers them the very best he could aspire to be.
    From the start Johns said "all the experience these characters are missing, with Rebirth it will all be coming back". It was even echoed in superman rebirth, flash war, etc. Where these characters regain what they have lost.
    On a meta narrative level, it means that theyll "get their feats and skills back".

    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Thats not really fair to Teen Titans, or to what DC was actully trying to do at the time. The franchise wasn't dead when the put Tim on it, its not even dead now, as evident by things like TTGo, and Lobdell became not very popular till after the TT run. When they gave Tim and his generation TTs, despite this new time line, they were not putting them in a dead franchise, but trying to launch a line around them. They were the center piece to an entire line for DC.
    What almost killed the teen titans wasnt the 90s generation, its that they turned the 90s generation into a group of millenial misfits. Angering fans and failing to raise interest for the new take on classic characters. It was all around a mess. Either staggering incompetence or downright malice.

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsense man View Post
    He just has no purpose or story for him right now. So him doing something seperate from the batfamily would be best.
    Never really got this argument. Like, that never stops literally any other character from being writen. Even batman has no purpose or story until someone comes and gives him one.

  12. #87
    Astonishing Member Fergus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Not reading the whole thread, but.....


    It's hard to judge how viable Tim is right now .
    I'm sure DC has a decent enough idea how viable the character is and are basing their decisions on facts and figures we aren't privy to.

    DC invests resources in projects that they believe have the best potential for success and profit. I can't see a business leaving money on the table by benching / not exploiting lucrative characters.

    The way they milk Batman and [recently] Harley Quinn it's a fairly clear DC will gleefully squeeze the last drop out of anything that yields.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    I'm sure DC has a decent enough idea how viable the character is and are basing their decisions on facts and figures we aren't privy to.

    DC invests resources in projects that they believe have the best potential for success and profit. I can't see a business leaving money on the table by benching / not exploiting lucrative characters.

    The way they milk Batman and [recently] Harley Quinn it's a fairly clear DC will gleefully squeeze the last drop out of anything that yields.
    Then they should hire some fresh creators instead of giving the same old people the same old jobs. I've never been to a comics con, but there's got to be a lot of young talent there and a lot of other young talent knocking on the doors all the time.

  14. #89
    Ultimate Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oasis1313 View Post
    Then they should hire some fresh creators instead of giving the same old people the same old jobs. I've never been to a comics con, but there's got to be a lot of young talent there and a lot of other young talent knocking on the doors all the time.
    They are hiring young talent so long as that young talent is an ex student of Scott Synder's comic writing classes or drinks with Scott Synder.

    That's how Batman and JL writing gig's are decided these day's.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    They are hiring young talent so long as that young talent is an ex student of Scott Synder's comic writing classes or drinks with Scott Synder.

    That's how Batman and JL writing gig's are decided these day's.
    It sure seems like it. Always been an Old Boys Network, anyway. Now we're "retelling" old stories, mining the same old plots again, stuff that sucked 30 years ago now back again. I'm pretty discouraged about it all, just want somebody new who'll go wild trying to make these beloved characters shine. The trades are coming out quicker and quicker after arcs are finished; I try to support Nightwing always but the latest Titans stuff is FOUL.

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