View Poll Results: Do you blame Gambit for the Mutant Massacre?

Voters
83. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    10 12.05%
  • No

    42 50.60%
  • Partly to blame

    31 37.35%
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 59
  1. #31
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    3,468

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by donpricetag View Post
    You say that as if Sinister was world renowned. This is even before the X-Men knew who Sinister was and what he was about. He was scared and desperate and it made him act stupidly. And seeing as he was even then a professional thief... He wasn' completely morally bankrupt but it wasn't his strong suit. As a comic reader, you know all this information. It was given to you without having to work for it in a single book and then elaborated on several times since. At this point your just choosing to feel this way on reflex. It's a fictional character in a story that was retconed 12+ years after the fact.

    Now Fantomex. There's a character to irrationally hate for reasons beyond logic.
    His name is Mister Sinister and he looks like a demonic glam rocker. Gambit definitely knew what he was about and he knew about Sabretooth as well. Gambit acted selfishly out of fear and desperation and got dozens of innocent people killed.
    Last edited by Vegan Daddy; 07-15-2018 at 06:59 AM.

  2. #32
    BANNED PsychoEFrost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    4,771

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by donpricetag View Post
    Don't bring poor Bishop into this. Marvel royally screwed his character up ten ways from Sunday. They made him into a raving, genocidal, mass murdering, psychopath. Without a dedicated arc or mini, which he hasn't gotten, he's basically irredeemable. You can't even say it's all good with the demon bear cop out. He murdered the entire population of Earth in the future. The whole effing planet. Billions people. This guy that loved in the 90s, this selfless hero... complete nutcase.
    There's a case to be made that Lucas Bishop suffered the worst character assassination in X-Men history. More than Magneto. More than Emma Frost. More than Cyclops. More than Madeline Freaking Pryor, who used to be the Marvel poster child for this.

  3. #33
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    95

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agatha's Ghost View Post
    Did he believe that a man named Mister Sinister had a laudable end-goal in mind?
    In all fairness to Gambit, he grew up in a town with Thieves and Assassins, married an Assassins Daughter and was a thief himself.

  4. #34
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    95

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegan Daddy View Post
    Mister Sinister, a psychopath eugenicist, asked me to assemble a team of vicious mercenaries and then lead them to an isolated community of second rate mutants. Gee-whizz, I wonder how this will play out!

    Gambit is either incredibly stupid or a morally bankrupt opportunist. Probably both.

    Edit: He should have been tried and executed by the morlocks. That Antarctica nonsense was a sham.
    Well there is always What If stories. What if 106. He was executed by Marrow in the end for his role in the mutant massacre, Ironically to x-men fans here, in that alternate reality, the X-men did blame him. He was exiled from the team only to be killed by marrow who felt exile was not enough punishment. He died in Rogue's arms.

  5. #35
    Incredible Member DearMachine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    597

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by oasis1313 View Post
    Medical care is expensive. Especially brain surgery.
    An excellent point. If there had been universal health care, Gambit wouldn't have led the Marauders into the tunnel.

  6. #36
    Incredible Member DearMachine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    597

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegan Daddy View Post
    His name is Mister Sinister and he looks like a demonic glam rocker. Gambit definitely knew what he was about, and he knew about Sabretooth as well. Gambit acted selfishly out of fear and desperation and got dozens of innocent people killed.
    If Gambit hadn't gone to Sinister, though, he could potentially have destroyed the whole planet. That's not hyperbole, given what we know of the New Sun.

    I absolutely think that he has some responsibility for leading the Marauders into the tunnels, but I don't think he has the same level of responsibility as Sinister and the Marauders. He didn't plan it; he didn't kill anyone himself (again, he saved someone); and Sinister would have done it anyway. On the scale of terrible things X-Men have done, it's not that high.

  7. #37
    Incredible Member Captain Nash's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    720

    Default

    Partly to blame. Definitely not to the extent of how the books played it out to be. Did he know that Sinister was up to no good and that there would be bad thing stemming from leading his group to the specified location? yes, but he also probably realized that if not him Sinister would find someone else to do it. And the reasons he helped were not because of the resulting action but the help that Sinister would give him in return, to block an even larger tragedy. So he knew it was wrong but also knew that not doing so would potentially result in an even worse outcome later. That's where I deviate from the blame placed on him, at least as far as how much the comics went.

    Where I do put some blame is that with his connections, he could have alerted someone that might have been able to prevent the massacre. I don't mean human authorities, who if they didn't arrest him for past crimes (thieves guild) would have no chance of going against the Marauders, I mean people who could possibly help to relocate the Morlocks, or even potentially people who could have alerted the X-Men and they could have been present before. Or, hell, even just going to the Morlocks themselves and giving them warning, probably the easiest and straightforward solution. Not to say that doing any of these would definitely prevented the massacre, just saying that he could have tried. Also hiding the fact of his involvement for years from the X-Men. Once the X-Men showed up to help the Morlocks why didn't he help. I know the real life reason is he hadn't been created yet, duh, but I'm talking actual storyline retcontinuity. (Hah, I made up a word lol). Surely at that point in the story would have been an ideal place to lend a hand.

    So yeah, I partly blame him, but I think the majority of how I feel about it definitely skews to absolving him of blame, and leaving just a small amount of responsibility there. I kind of feel the books went overboard with laying the blame. But how much of it was really from the fact he covered his involvement up versus he actual involvement? Sometimes the lies hurt worse than the action itself. Marrow and Angel I can understand why they personally were angry at him for his actions, given what they personally lost there, but the rest of them I guess it's more the hiding the fact versus the action. Still what was he going to do? At some random point after he joins and learns about the Massacre, go "Hey, guys just so you know, that massacre that happened a couple of years ago? Yeah, I kind of caused that." Don't think so.
    Last edited by Captain Nash; 07-15-2018 at 07:03 AM.

  8. #38
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    1,821

    Default

    Not at all!

    Because I still haven't read the story where this was revealed and really don't know the details!

  9. #39
    Twitter: @theprattlp donpricetag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Miami... the good one.
    Posts
    4,551

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nash View Post
    Once the X-Men showed up to help the Morlocks why didn't he help. I know the real life reason is he hadn't been created yet, duh, but I'm talking actual storyline retcontinuity. (Hah, I made up a word lol). Surely at that point in the story would have been an ideal place to lend a hand.
    Uhh.. because he was bleeding to death? Before the X-Men came he engaged the Marauders by himself. Sabretooth nearly disemboweled him for it. All he could do was escape with Marrow. He fought and retreated before any of the X-Men had arrived.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamFTF View Post
    Not at all!

    Because I still haven't read the story where this was revealed and really don't know the details!
    Uncanny X-Men #350 and Gambit Origins... or just scroll up. Most of the information has been posted.
    Last edited by donpricetag; 07-15-2018 at 07:35 AM.
    Guild Member
    Realistically speaking about fictional matters. | Nutcases need not respond. | Stay outta my DMs. | Why does the "House of Ideas" keep duplicating characters?! | If an idea or belief cannot stand up to criticism it's probably... bad.

  10. #40
    Incredible Member DearMachine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    597

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nash View Post
    Where I do put some blame is that with his connections, he could have alerted someone that might have been able to prevent the massacre. I don't mean human authorities, who if they didn't arrest him for past crimes (thieves guild) would have no chance of going against the Marauders, I mean people who could possibly help to relocate the Morlocks, or even potentially people who could have alerted the X-Men and they could have been present before. Or, hell, even just going to the Morlocks themselves and giving them warning, probably the easiest and straightforward solution. Not to say that doing any of these would definitely prevented the massacre, just saying that he could have tried. Also hiding the fact of his involvement for years from the X-Men. Once the X-Men showed up to help the Morlocks why didn't he help. I know the real life reason is he hadn't been created yet, duh, but I'm talking actual storyline retcontinuity. (Hah, I made up a word lol). Surely at that point in the story would have been an ideal place to lend a hand.
    Yeah, Gambit should have suspected that the Marauders had evil intentions and warned people, but it's not that surprising he didn't. He's always had an adversarial relationship with the authorities, and Sinister had framed it as his final job. In other words, he did it, and he got out.

    He also genuinely may not have believed that Sinister wanted to massacre people. Sinister's evil, but his major reputation outside of the massacre is not as a mass murderer. He's more likely to clone people than to kill them. Gambit may have thought he had sent the team in to extract genetic material, and had anticipated some resistance from the Morlocks. That would fit Sinister's MO better. It would be a reasonable assumption. Remy seems shocked when Sabertooth randomly kills a Morlock, and he immediately turns on them.

    deadmorlock.jpg

    He didn't help, because he was seriously wounded after he attacked the Marauders. Sabertooth grabbed him and tried to gut him. I doubt he was capable of helping by the point the X-Men came.

    marauders.jpg
    sabertooth.jpg

    (Thought it would be helpful to include the relevant pages)
    Last edited by DearMachine; 07-15-2018 at 07:29 AM.

  11. #41
    Mighty Member Sundowhn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,555

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    There's a case to be made that Lucas Bishop suffered the worst character assassination in X-Men history. More than Magneto. More than Emma Frost. More than Cyclops. More than Madeline Freaking Pryor, who used to be the Marvel poster child for this.
    Agree completely

  12. #42
    Incredible Member Captain Nash's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    720

    Default

    I totally forgot that Gambit was wounded by Sabretooth in the attack. Yeah, that would definitely have prevented him from helping out. it's been a while since I've read #350. Thanks for jogging my memory ya'll!

  13. #43
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    95

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sundowhn View Post
    Agree completely
    I don't want to start with Magneto aka Mr Genocide , writers will still give him a pass and make him part of the team. Lucas just got insane. Magneto is usually in his right mind.

  14. #44
    BANNED PsychoEFrost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    4,771

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Grindlelord View Post
    I don't want to start with Magneto aka Mr Genocide , writers will still give him a pass and make him part of the team. Lucas just got insane. Magneto is usually in his right mind.
    Eh, I agree with Emma's recent assessment of him:

    "That man's moments of clarity are simple breaths between screams."

  15. #45
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    6,649

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by donpricetag View Post
    No but he was a kid that couldn't control his powers. He accidentally killed his brother in law and the explosions we're becoming more and more dangerous. Being a member of the underworld his connections put him in contact with someone that could help him. But it came with a cost. Seemed simple. Find a list of mercs. He does so. Sinister asks another errand. Take them down into the morlock tunnels. If I'm remembering Creed's rambling correctly from one of the books, Sinister knew Gambit wouldn't have the stomach and if he tried to interfere, Sinister gave orders to kill him. Which almost happened as Gambit did in fact attack the Marauders. Gutted and bleeding to death he was able to grab and save one child that was being hidden by her parents dead bodies.

    He's not responsible for the massacre. Sinister would have done with or without his assistance but he was a tool to making it happen sooner rather than later.
    Damn. All that went down?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •