How much do you blame Gambit for the Mutant Massacre?

[Grindlelord]

The Mutant Massacre was a pivotal moment in the X-Men history, one of our watershed moments. It is important to note that the story was written years before Gambit was ever introduced to the X-Men Books, somewhere around 1995-1997, it was heavily hinted Gambit had this dark history, so dark, Rogue could not even deal with it in her own mind until she was forced too. Readers finally learned in Uncanny X-Men 350 that it was Gambit who lead the Marauders into the Morlocks tunnels where the massacre took place.

How much of this was Gambit's fault? definitely a very complex debate. We all could argue reasons for and against Gambit's part in the massacre from him getting desperate and turning to Sinister for help, later feeling obliged to return the favour or Gambit was not naive enough to think the Marauders were going down just to have small talks with the Morlocks.

Sinister and his Marauders gets full responsibility but is it fair to say Gambit is just as responsible or just partially responsible?

[mikeb]

The Mutant Massacre was a pivotal moment in the X-Men history, one of our watershed moments. It is important to note that the story was written years before Gambit was ever introduced to the X-Men Books, somewhere around 1995-1997, it was heavily hinted Gambit had this dark history, so dark, Rogue could not even deal with it in her own mind until she was forced too. Readers finally learned in Uncanny X-Men 350 that it was Gambit who lead the Marauders into the Morlocks tunnels where the massacre took place.

How much of this was Gambit's fault? definitely a very complex debate. We all could argue reasons for and against Gambit's part in the massacre from him getting desperate and turning to Sinister for help, later feeling obliged to return the favour or Gambit was not naive enough to think the Marauders were going down just to have small talks with the Morlocks.

Sinister and his Marauders gets full responsibility but is it fair to say Gambit is just as responsible or just partially responsible?

I don't blame him for the massacre. Remy's biggest "crime" to me was the cover-up of his part in the massacre conspiracy. In #45 to me, his attitude was covering his butt meant more to him than ending Rogue's emotional and psychological torment over what she had absorbed from him. I also blame him for the "Trial". If he come clean when he had the chance, there would not have been a "Trial". Remy's cover-up collapses and he ends up suffering the repercusions of that collapse.

[Perfection/Emma 2]

Gambit played his role but the blame doesn't all fall on him. Mr. Sinister, Sabertooth, Mystique, and the rest of the Marauders all had a part in the massacre

[mikeb]

Gambit played his role but the blame doesn't all fall on him. Mr. Sinister, Sabertooth, Mystique, and the rest of the Marauders all had a part in the massacre

Mystique? Mystique was leading Freedom Force and working for Val Cooper at the time of MM. The Messiah Complex doesn't happen for more than 20 years after the MM.

[Agatha's Ghost]

Did he believe that a man named Mister Sinister had a laudable end-goal in mind?

[Kaled]

I don't blame him but personally I think it was a stupid idea to retcon himin to the Mutant Massacre

[donpricetag]

Did he believe that a man named Mister Sinister had a laudable end-goal in mind?

No but he was a kid that couldn't control his powers. He accidentally killed his brother in law and the explosions we're becoming more and more dangerous. Being a member of the underworld his connections put him in contact with someone that could help him. But it came with a cost. Seemed simple. Find a list of mercs. He does so. Sinister asks another errand. Take them down into the morlock tunnels. If I'm remembering Creed's rambling correctly from one of the books, Sinister knew Gambit wouldn't have the stomach and if he tried to interfere, Sinister gave orders to kill him. Which almost happened as Gambit did in fact attack the Marauders. Gutted and bleeding to death he was able to grab and save one child that was being hidden by her parents dead bodies.

He's not responsible for the massacre. Sinister would have done with or without his assistance but he was a tool to making it happen sooner rather than later.

[Grindlelord]

Did he believe that a man named Mister Sinister had a laudable end-goal in mind?

In all fairness to Gambit, he grew up in a town with Thieves and Assassins, married an Assassins Daughter and was a thief himself.

[Havok83]

No blame. All he did was assemble the team. Sinister was going to slaughter the Morlocks regardless

[wano]

Not at all, doesn't mean I find anything interesting about gambit tough
Honestly if gambit wasn't around they'd hired someone else, and why the hell would you need gambit to guide you to the morlock tunnels when you've got saber-tooth that's a better tracker. . . It literally makes no sense and it seems like it's added just to give gambit a cool dark mysterious past, can't believe I'm defending gambit, look what you've made me do. . . Hell I'm pretty sure gambit wouldn't hurt a fly, he's more of a meme character than anything and his mutant massacre "gambit" has never amounted to anything or had any lasting impact in his characterization

Did he believe that a man named Mister Sinister had a laudable end-goal in mind?

Maybe he wanted to open a left handed store

[Sundowhn]

Partly to blame. The base of Gambit's story is that the guy makes poor life choices, and this was one of them.

[Captain Nash]

Partly to blame. Definitely not to the extent of how the books played it out to be. Did he know that Sinister was up to no good and that there would be bad thing stemming from leading his group to the specified location? yes, but he also probably realized that if not him Sinister would find someone else to do it. And the reasons he helped were not because of the resulting action but the help that Sinister would give him in return, to block an even larger tragedy. So he knew it was wrong but also knew that not doing so would potentially result in an even worse outcome later. That's where I deviate from the blame placed on him, at least as far as how much the comics went.

Where I do put some blame is that with his connections, he could have alerted someone that might have been able to prevent the massacre. I don't mean human authorities, who if they didn't arrest him for past crimes (thieves guild) would have no chance of going against the Marauders, I mean people who could possibly help to relocate the Morlocks, or even potentially people who could have alerted the X-Men and they could have been present before. Or, hell, even just going to the Morlocks themselves and giving them warning, probably the easiest and straightforward solution. Not to say that doing any of these would definitely prevented the massacre, just saying that he could have tried. Also hiding the fact of his involvement for years from the X-Men. Once the X-Men showed up to help the Morlocks why didn't he help. I know the real life reason is he hadn't been created yet, duh, but I'm talking actual storyline retcontinuity. (Hah, I made up a word lol). Surely at that point in the story would have been an ideal place to lend a hand.

So yeah, I partly blame him, but I think the majority of how I feel about it definitely skews to absolving him of blame, and leaving just a small amount of responsibility there. I kind of feel the books went overboard with laying the blame. But how much of it was really from the fact he covered his involvement up versus he actual involvement? Sometimes the lies hurt worse than the action itself. Marrow and Angel I can understand why they personally were angry at him for his actions, given what they personally lost there, but the rest of them I guess it's more the hiding the fact versus the action. Still what was he going to do? At some random point after he joins and learns about the Massacre, go "Hey, guys just so you know, that massacre that happened a couple of years ago? Yeah, I kind of caused that." Don't think so.

[AdamFTF]

Not at all!

Because I still haven't read the story where this was revealed and really don't know the details!

[donpricetag]

Once the X-Men showed up to help the Morlocks why didn't he help. I know the real life reason is he hadn't been created yet, duh, but I'm talking actual storyline retcontinuity. (Hah, I made up a word lol). Surely at that point in the story would have been an ideal place to lend a hand.

Uhh.. because he was bleeding to death? Before the X-Men came he engaged the Marauders by himself. Sabretooth nearly disemboweled him for it. All he could do was escape with Marrow. He fought and retreated before any of the X-Men had arrived.

Not at all!

Because I still haven't read the story where this was revealed and really don't know the details!

Uncanny X-Men #350 and Gambit Origins... or just scroll up. Most of the information has been posted.

[DearMachine]

Where I do put some blame is that with his connections, he could have alerted someone that might have been able to prevent the massacre. I don't mean human authorities, who if they didn't arrest him for past crimes (thieves guild) would have no chance of going against the Marauders, I mean people who could possibly help to relocate the Morlocks, or even potentially people who could have alerted the X-Men and they could have been present before. Or, hell, even just going to the Morlocks themselves and giving them warning, probably the easiest and straightforward solution. Not to say that doing any of these would definitely prevented the massacre, just saying that he could have tried. Also hiding the fact of his involvement for years from the X-Men. Once the X-Men showed up to help the Morlocks why didn't he help. I know the real life reason is he hadn't been created yet, duh, but I'm talking actual storyline retcontinuity. (Hah, I made up a word lol). Surely at that point in the story would have been an ideal place to lend a hand.

Yeah, Gambit should have suspected that the Marauders had evil intentions and warned people, but it's not that surprising he didn't. He's always had an adversarial relationship with the authorities, and Sinister had framed it as his final job. In other words, he did it, and he got out.

He also genuinely may not have believed that Sinister wanted to massacre people. Sinister's evil, but his major reputation outside of the massacre is not as a mass murderer. He's more likely to clone people than to kill them. Gambit may have thought he had sent the team in to extract genetic material, and had anticipated some resistance from the Morlocks. That would fit Sinister's MO better. It would be a reasonable assumption. Remy seems shocked when Sabertooth randomly kills a Morlock, and he immediately turns on them.

deadmorlock.jpg

He didn't help, because he was seriously wounded after he attacked the Marauders. Sabertooth grabbed him and tried to gut him. I doubt he was capable of helping by the point the X-Men came.

marauders.jpg
sabertooth.jpg

(Thought it would be helpful to include the relevant pages)