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  1. #31
    the devil's reject choptop's Avatar
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    Between this starwars and marvel how long before they start making a return on there investment?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    Outside of possibly Dark Knight I find all comic book superhero films popcorn fare just as I view most Star Wars films for a Star Wars films I found Solo mediocre but outside of Empire I don't hold any Star Wars film in great regard they're just fun entertaining movies I love but not amazing stories.

    Superhero films, Star Wars films, Indiana Jones films, slasher movies, zombie films, James Bond I consider them all fun and entertaining and I love them all and watch them regularly but again I hold very few films on those genres as truly great films.
    Outside of the possibility of the Dark Knight? Please stop. What year did Logan come out again?

    You find all comic films pop corn entertainment, if only that was true. all superhero movies varies usually according to what their studio can allow. Dark knight already had a first film that was like dark knight.(Batman Begins) there were X-men films in the early 2000s that proved superhero movies were far more than pop corn entertainment and could be grounded, serious, very adult orientated, tackle real issues, while still keeping the pg 13 rating and be more drama driven than action packed popcorn flicks like MCU movies. they came back again in the 2010s recently with First Class, DOFP and Logan. setting themselves more apart from the Disney formula MCU popcorn fun movies. There are other superhero films like V for Vendetta , The Mask, Hellboy, and Watchmen or Kick Ass that don't even fit the norm of Marvel or DC mainstream comics films.

    The superhero popcorn flick is strictly a MCU disney thing because that is what is the most commercial for Disney. most of their recent movies are even now just full on comedies. It has nothing to do with the best of X-Men movies like X2 or DOFP or Logan or the best of the Warner Brothers movies like Batman Begins, V for Vendetta or The Dark Knight. They are not the same as WB and Fox can allow more creative thinking or is not too obsessed with things been too kid friendly like MCU Disney is.


    There is noone out-there who mistakes those movies for MCU Disney movies.sorry. Please stop trying to drag all comic films down to MCU superhero pop corn fun level. most of the movies were already out there changing the mindset that comic films were more than just popcorn movies long before MCU movies came around and after the genre was questioned after Batman and Robin in 1997. Funny enough, the genre is been questioned again because of MCU movies.

    Even Sam Raimi's 2004 Spiderman movie managed to achieve a fantastic serious character study of how compelling it is to be Peter Parker and spiderman, something Homecoming severely lacked and was nothing more but popcorn flick entertainment . Spiderman 2004 was a lot deeper than that movie. Reason we call it the best Spiderman movie.
    Last edited by Grindlelord; 07-15-2018 at 12:08 AM.

  3. #33
    Extraordinary Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grindlelord View Post
    Outside of the possibility of the Dark Knight? Please stop. What year did Logan come out again?

    You find all comic films pop corn entertainment, if only that was true. all superhero movies varies usually according to what their studio can allow. Dark knight already had a first film that was like dark knight.(Batman Begins) there were X-men films in the early 2000s that proved superhero movies were far more than pop corn entertainment and could be grounded, serious, very adult orientated, tackle real issues, while still keeping the pg 13 rating and be more drama driven than action packed popcorn flicks like MCU movies. they came back again in the 2010s recently with First Class, DOFP and Logan. setting themselves more apart from the Disney formula MCU popcorn fun movies. There are other superhero films like V for Vendetta , The Mask, Hellboy, and Watchmen or Kick Ass that don't even fit the norm of Marvel or DC mainstream comics films.

    The superhero popcorn flick is strictly a MCU disney thing because that is what is the most commercial for Disney. most of their recent movies are even now just full on comedies. It has nothing to do with the best of X-Men movies like X2 or DOFP or Logan or the best of the Warner Brothers movies like Batman Begins, V for Vendetta or The Dark Knight. They are not the same as WB and Fox can allow more creative thinking or is not too obsessed with things been too kid friendly like MCU Disney is.


    There is noone out-there who mistakes those movies for MCU Disney movies.sorry. Please stop trying to drag all comic films down to MCU superhero pop corn fun level. most of the movies were already out there changing the mindset that comic films were more than just popcorn movies long before MCU movies came around and after the genre was questioned after Batman and Robin in 1997. Funny enough, the genre is been questioned again because of MCU movies.

    Even Sam Raimi's 2004 Spiderman movie managed to achieve a fantastic serious character study of how compelling it is to be Peter Parker and spiderman, something Homecoming severely lacked and was nothing more but popcorn flick entertainment . Spiderman 2004 was a lot deeper than that movie. Reason we call it the best Spiderman movie.
    Logan is a retelling of Shane and Unforgiven with a Superhero twist and while it was the best Superhero film IMO of 2017 not most entertaining I'd like to add it also wasn't as good as two films it was mimicking and thus not a great film to me. Dark Knight is a duplicate in many was of Heat but I think Dark Knight is better and thus a great film I might add while a great film I don't find Dark Knight a particularly good Batman film feeling Mask of the Phantasm is a better Batman story while Dark Knight is a better film. V for Vendetta isn't a superhero story even Moore would tell you that so it's not part of my statement just like History of Violence isn't. I don't think any X-Man film is a truly great film and I love the Raimi films but I don't consider them great films storywise either. The only true Superhero film I consider a great film is Superman 78 and not because of story but because of the amazing achievement it was for that time to convince us a man could fly. Peter Parker is a fun character I love spending time with the character on film it's a simple morality tale and power fantasy it's really not that deep like all Superhero stories they can teach lessons and be entertaining but that's about it.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    Logan is a retelling of Shane and Unforgiven with a Superhero twist and while it was the best Superhero film IMO of 2017 not most entertaining I'd like to add it also wasn't as good as two films it was mimicking and thus not a great film to me. Dark Knight is a duplicate in many was of Heat but I think Dark Knight is better and thus a great film I might add while a great film I don't find Dark Knight a particularly good Batman film feeling Mask of the Phantasm is a better Batman story while Dark Knight is a better film. V for Vendetta isn't a superhero story even Moore would tell you that so it's not part of my statement just like History of Violence isn't. I don't think any X-Man film is a truly great film and I love the Raimi films but I don't consider them great films storywise either. The only true Superhero film I consider a great film is Superman 78 and not because of story but because of the amazing achievement it was for that time to convince us a man could fly. Peter Parker is a fun character I love spending time with the character on film it's a simple morality tale and power fantasy it's really not that deep like all Superhero stories they can teach lessons and be entertaining but that's about it.
    Logan represents every thing wrong and bad with MCU movies that is part of the reason the movie is such a masterpiece, it is pretty expected that some fans of Disney will not call it a great movie for that alone. it does not matter how you feel about logan or the dark knight, both movies were made on purpose to be nothing like MCU movies. they are now the two most respected comic films out here and does it helps their directors dislike MCU movies? which further proof mcu movies are mediocre.

    I just love it when I hear a person say Logan and TDK are not really great films. name an MCU film better than both? the best MCU movie (The winter Solider) is not even better than DOFP or Batman Begins. Further more, it is pretty common that most people that don't like xmen movies or tdk movies like MCU movies. in a way it is hard to like both. I really don't expect anyone that likes X2 or batman begins to like avengers or gotg. just for the fact that some are drama, very serious , directorial driven and more adult appealing, the others are fun disney comedies obviously marketed first and foremost to children with little depth just following a formula where the directors are pretty much extras.

    Peter Parker is also not a fun character. Peter is a grounded human character with lots of flaws, part of the charm of peter is that he was not superman with so much power or rich like batman, he was the common man with real issues and life crises. one reason I loved Spiderman TAS and Spiderman 2004, it captured the complicated life of peter perfectly. the... peter is Fun is a disney thing to make the character appeal to a children audience, it has zero to do with the Spiderverse.
    Last edited by Grindlelord; 07-15-2018 at 06:08 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grindlelord View Post
    Peter is a grounded human character with lots of flaws, part of the charm of peter is that he was not superman with so much power or rich like batman, he was the common man with real issues and life crises. one reason I loved Spiderman TAS and Spiderman 2004, it captured the complicated like of peter perfectly. the... peter is Fun is a disney thing to make the character appeal to a children audience, it has zero to do with the Spiderverse.
    He's a supergenius with crazy powers who has a long string of women with supermodel looks falling over him, he has an impossibly ancient aunt (seriously, she's more like his great grand aunt or something, Marisa Tomei was the first realistic aunt May), his parents were super spies, he works at a major newspaper while still in highschool, and he got that job by fraudulously selling selfies.
    The Silver Surfer is more grounded than this dude.

  6. #36
    Extraordinary Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grindlelord View Post
    Logan represents every thing wrong and bad with MCU movies that is part of the reason the movie is such a masterpiece, it is pretty expected that some fans of Disney will not call it a great movie for that alone. it does not matter how you feel about logan or the dark knight, both movies were made on purpose to be nothing like MCU movies. they are now the two most respected comic films out here and does it helps their directors dislike MCU movies? which further proof mcu movies are mediocre.

    I just love it when I hear a person say Logan and TDK are not really great films. name an MCU film better than both? the best MCU movie (The winter Solider) is not even better than DOFP or Batman Begins. Further more, it is pretty common that most people that don't like xmen movies or tdk movies like MCU movies. in a way it is hard to like both. I really don't expect anyone that likes X2 or batman begins to like avengers or gotg. just for the fact that some are drama, very serious , directorial driven and more adult appealing, the others are fun disney comedies obviously marketed first and foremost to children with little depth just following a formula where the directors are pretty much extras.

    Peter Parker is also not a fun character. Peter is a grounded human character with lots of flaws, part of the charm of peter is that he was not superman with so much power or rich like batman, he was the common man with real issues and life crises. one reason I loved Spiderman TAS and Spiderman 2004, it captured the complicated like of peter perfectly. the... peter is Fun is a disney thing to make the character appeal to a children audience, it has zero to do with the Spiderverse.
    I never said any MCU film was a great film they're just fun entertaining films and I love them for that.

    OK one Spider-Man came out in 02 the sequel came out in 04. Also I loved the 90's series but it was also a toy commercial meant for kids it was on Fox KIDS oh and the Hobgoblin was in it first over Green Goblin because of toys here's John Semper the show runner explaining it http://marvel.toonzone.net/spideytas.../sempergoblin/

    Last Spider-Man has always been a wisecracking fun character yes he has problems but he cracks more jokes in the comics than any MCU character ever has

  7. #37
    Mighty Member RikWriter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grindlelord View Post

    I just love it when I hear a person say Logan and TDK are not really great films. name an MCU film better than both? the best MCU movie (The winter Solider) is not even better than DOFP or Batman Begins.
    In your opinion anyway.

  8. #38
    Extraordinary Member Hiromi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    1313 wasn't Visceral's game. 1313 and First Assault were the games Lucasarts were working on before Disney axed them.

    Being a big fan of action games I thought the Force Unleashed series was pretty decent and that was among the last of their major Star Wars they developed.
    Yeah your right, I got it mixed up with the separate single player game Visceral was working on

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by RikWriter View Post
    In your opinion anyway.
    An opinion I would be able to back up with excellent reasons that qualifies as good film making. story telling, plot and letting a director's talent shine, since every director is unique not to mention challenging the concept of what comic films are and can be. more than fun and cool action scenes, its a shame Disney has never gotten this memo with their MCU Disney Comedy Movies with little plot or depth. They better not buy Fox.

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    Mighty Member RikWriter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grindlelord View Post
    An opinion I would be able to back up with excellent reasons that qualifies as good film making. story telling, plot and letting a director's talent shine, since every director is unique not to mention challenging the concept of what comic films are and can be. more than fun and cool action scenes, its a shame Disney has never gotten this memo with their MCU Disney Comedy Movies with little plot or depth. They better not buy Fox.

    Yeah, you can back it up in your head, not actually in real life to anyone else. Days of Future Past wasn't that great of a movie, and it was honestly only made interesting by Quicksilver's jailbreak scene. It was poorly paced, the fight scenes were not that well choreographed and the acting was mediocre. Batman Begins was a much better movie and DOFP doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath with it or with Winter Soldier.

  11. #41
    non-super & non-hero jump's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grindlelord View Post
    An opinion I would be able to back up with excellent reasons that qualifies as good film making. story telling, plot and letting a director's talent shine, since every director is unique not to mention challenging the concept of what comic films are and can be. more than fun and cool action scenes, its a shame Disney has never gotten this memo with their MCU Disney Comedy Movies with little plot or depth. They better not buy Fox.
    Not that I'm agreeing or disagreeing on how good Days of Future Past was but it's interesting you're talking about the director's talent to shine as the original director dropped out and his ideas were carried out by another.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RikWriter View Post
    Yeah, you can back it up in your head, not actually in real life to anyone else. Days of Future Past wasn't that great of a movie, and it was honestly only made interesting by Quicksilver's jailbreak scene. It was poorly paced, the fight scenes were not that well choreographed and the acting was mediocre. Batman Begins was a much better movie and DOFP doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath with it or with Winter Soldier.
    it is expected a mcu fan will say DOFP is not that great of a movie because it is better than all their MCU movies. poorly paced in the mcu world means a movie that has real drama in it and not jokes after jokes or explosions after explosions or a predictable plot and basic story telling like Winter Solider was.

    the fight scenes are not well choreographed in the mcu world means fight scenes that are gritty, realistic as possible and grounded and raise the stakes not for fun CGI cool reasons or done to make up the fact a movie has no plot. did you ever get the memo of deadpool mocking superhero landings? winter solider had so many.

    funny since in 2014 both films were released 4 weeks apart and DOFP was deemed the superior movie. Winter Solider was outclassed every way, story telling, performances and depth alone. Winter Solider was no match for DOFP . DOFP killed this movie just in acting alone. please don't try to compare the complex character study dynamic of xavier and magneto to bucky and steve.
    or the 3 dimensional complicated character of Mystique to the one dimensional action figure character of Black Widow that had no real arc in the movie. DOFP wass a real drama that just happens to be a comic film.

    It is winter solider that should never be mentioned in the same sentence as DOFP since disney would have found DOFP to compelling, dark and adult themed to make and will rather have dumbed it down to fit winter solider generic spy level movie. If DOFP was ever a spy movie, it will end up more like Skyfall not Winter Solider. I don't need to tell anyone just how much Skyfall is a superior movie to Winter Solider and how disney will never make Skyfall anymore than they would have made DOFP
    Last edited by Grindlelord; 07-15-2018 at 11:31 AM.

  13. #43
    non-super & non-hero jump's Avatar
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    I disagree Winter Soldier was predictable. No one expected Hydra infesting SHIELD and then SHIELD being disassembled, especially when they have a show about SHIELD on the tv at the moment. There's also a few small moments like Peggy Carter forgetting Steve is back and people coming up him to suggest he checks out things he missed etc really made the movie to me, far more than the action or the costumes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grindlelord View Post
    it is expected a mcu fan will say DOFP is not that great of a movie because it is better than all their MCU movies. poorly paced in the mcu world means a movie that has real drama in it and not jokes after jokes or explosions after explosions or a predictable plot and basic story telling like Winter Solider was.

    the fight scenes are not well choreographed in the mcu world means fight scenes that are gritty, realistic as possible and grounded and raise the stakes not for fun CGI cool reasons or done to make up the fact a movie has no plot. did you ever get the memo of deadpool mocking superhero landings? winter solider had so many.

    funny since in 2014 both films were released 4 weeks apart and DOFP was deemed the superior movie. Winter Solider was outclassed every way, story telling, performances and depth alone. Winter Solider was no match for DOFP . DOFP killed this movie just in acting alone. please don't try to compare the complex character study dynamic of xavier and magneto to bucky and steve.
    or the 3 dimensional complicated character of Mystique to the one dimensional action figure character of Black Widow that had no real arc in the movie. DOFP wass a real drama that just happens to be a comic film.

    It is winter solider that should never be mentioned in the same sentence as DOFP since disney would have found DOFP to compelling, dark and adult themed to make and will rather have dumbed it down to fit winter solider generic spy level movie. If DOFP was ever a spy movie, it will end up more like Skyfall not Winter Solider. I don't need to tell anyone just how much Skyfall is a superior movie to Winter Solider and how disney will never make Skyfall anymore than they would have made DOFP
    Your points are invalid because ... The Godfather is better than all of them put together and obviously two completely different things can't both be good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jump View Post
    I disagree Winter Soldier was predictable. No one expected Hydra infesting SHIELD and then SHIELD being disassembled, especially when they have a show about SHIELD on the tv at the moment. There's also a few small moments like Peggy Carter forgetting Steve is back and people coming up him to suggest he checks out things he missed etc really made the movie to me, far more than the action or the costumes.
    Winter solider was predictable, there is one plot point I wish winter solider had from wonder woman. reverse who the real villain is and not make it too noticeable. from the moment Alexander pearce shows up, we knew right away he was the villain. the whole bucky talk in the beginning of the film was awful since the more they talked about him, the more we knew he was the winter solider, these were all dead give aways.

    MCU movies are too basic but its not like disney denies they are not so I cant really fault them on that judging by disney's standards but when I compare it to other comic films with heavier story telling, they are somewhat lacking and by the 3rd arc, its just your MCU explosions and action with winter solider. DOFP and even TDK managed to hold the drama right till end.
    Last edited by Grindlelord; 07-15-2018 at 12:32 PM.

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