View Poll Results: Do you prefer Carol to be Ms. Marvel or Captain Marvel??

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  • Ms. Marvel

    44 41.51%
  • Captain Marvel

    62 58.49%
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  1. #46
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Captain, no question.

    Kamala is Ms. Marvel.
    Follow your inner moonlight, do not hide the madness. -Ginsberg

  2. #47
    Boisterously Confused
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    Quote Originally Posted by ţh жţяą-๏яďɨɲąя Tycon View Post
    Okay,,,,,then aren't both "some" and "most" unquantifiable. Accurate assumption of opinion don't just happen when you assume the least rather than the most.
    Cleverly argued. "Some", however, acknowledges there are knuckle-dragging mouth-breathers who hate seeing a woman take a leading role in anything, and double-hate seeing men supplanted by women. True enough.

    "Most" (which you cannot establish) empowers dissmissing other reasons (nostalgia, liking the nega-bands, Monica's cool, missing Rick Jones, she doesn't say "SHAZAM", whatever) as being a cover for a primatively regressive mindset and/or agenda.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    She has no reason to do that in-story. The name was completely random for her, it doesn't have any meaning like there is for Carol or Mar-Vell's kids. And on irl contexts, Monica being Captain Marvel is only brought up by anti-Carol people to be like "Wow, she stole it from a black woman!!!", when they never cared one bit during the decades Monica didn't had it because of the white guy who actually stole it from her, or even mention his existence.
    Wrong. In-story, Monica (a boat Captain at the time) had the name hung on her by a witness "the Captain is a Marvel" (OHOTMU volume 2). Ludicrous, I grant, but more reasonable than the way most superheroes have been named since roughly 1969.

    Still, as has been pointed out, most of this is moot. Disney has invested in a movie. Carol is The Captain unless and until The MCU does a reboot.

  3. #48
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Wrong. In-story, Monica (a boat Captain at the time) had the name hung on her by a witness "the Captain is a Marvel" (OHOTMU volume 2). Ludicrous, I grant, but more reasonable than the way most superheroes have been named since roughly 1969.
    Sorry but I'm not seeing the part where this contradicts what I said rather than confirms it.

  4. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Wrong. In-story, Monica (a boat Captain at the time) had the name hung on her by a witness "the Captain is a Marvel" (OHOTMU volume 2). Ludicrous, I grant, but more reasonable than the way most superheroes have been named since roughly 1969.

    Still, as has been pointed out, most of this is moot. Disney has invested in a movie. Carol is The Captain unless and until The MCU does a reboot.
    I still get mad at how Monica got the name. It was contrived to the point of defying any possibility of suspending disbelief. I honestly think Monica doesn't deserve the name just for how bad the writing needed to be for her to get it. Stern did amazing stuff with Monica, but the way she got her name was some of the more cringey writing in his entire career. "The captain is a marvel," indeed. No one in the history of the world has ever spoken like that.

    It makes me legitimately angry.

  5. #50
    Bishop was right. Sighphi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    She has no reason to do that in-story. The name was completely random for her, it doesn't have any meaning like there is for Carol or Mar-Vell's kids. And on irl contexts, Monica being Captain Marvel is only brought up by anti-Carol people to be like "Wow, she stole it from a black woman!!!", when they never cared one bit during the decades Monica didn't had it because of the white guy who actually stole it from her, or even mention his existence.
    Captain Marvel's son?

  6. #51
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sighphi View Post
    Captain Marvel's son?
    Yeah. I'm not saying he didn't had the right to do it, but that the people using Monica to hate on Carol for taking the name are hypocrites since they didn't care when someone else did it, that being the one who actually took it from Monica instead of when no one was using it.

  7. #52
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamatty View Post
    I still get mad at how Monica got the name. It was contrived to the point of defying any possibility of suspending disbelief. I honestly think Monica doesn't deserve the name just for how bad the writing needed to be for her to get it. Stern did amazing stuff with Monica, but the way she got her name was some of the more cringey writing in his entire career. "The captain is a marvel," indeed. No one in the history of the world has ever spoken like that.
    I feel like it's about on par with some of the ways I've seen them come up with Wonder Woman's codename in-universe .

    (Probably why she still hasn't been referred to by that codename in any of the movies so far).

  8. #53
    Bishop was right. Sighphi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    Yeah. I'm not saying he didn't had the right to do it, but that the people using Monica to hate on Carol for taking the name are hypocrites since they didn't care when someone else did it, that being the one who actually took it from Monica instead of when no one was using it.
    He wasn't white he was an alien.

    I think the issue with Monica is that Marvel tries to push Carol as some sort of big step when Monica was technically the one.

  9. #54
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sighphi View Post
    He wasn't white he was an alien.

    I think the issue with Monica is that Marvel tries to push Carol as some sort of big step when Monica was technically the one.
    AFAIK he looked white when he wasn't blue. And it was a big step for Carol, which is what matters the most imo.

  10. #55
    ...of the Black Priests Midnight_v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Ms.

    It's still kind of the identity I most associate her with (although I love Kamala) and Captain Marvel is still Billy Batson to me.
    This /10 char I didn't even like the name warbird

    Wait. There's a big difference between genis Vell being Captain Marvel and Carol getting it over giving it back to Monica.

    It's just the hypocrisy of people who don't care about Monica but, probably because they didn't read the Avengers when she was the leader of it. Or maybe because she's black

    Because every single time someone dismisses Monica, while simultaneously exalting Carol as better than sliced bread then....
    The main thing that should jump into people's minds is
    "white feminism."
    So basically no it's not hypocrisy at all, but people don't want to see the problem when it doesn't affect them... they call this... Privilege.
    If I recall correctly
    Last edited by Midnight_v; 07-15-2018 at 05:08 PM.
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  11. #56
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight_v View Post
    This /10 char I didn't even like the name warbird

    Wait. There's a big difference between genis Vell being Captain Marvel and Carol getting it over giving it back to Monica.

    It's just the hypocrisy of people who don't care about Monica but, probably because they didn't read the Avengers when she was the leader of it. Or maybe because she's black

    Because every single time someone dismisses Monica, while simultaneously exalting Carol as better than sliced bread then....
    The main thing that should jump into people's minds is
    "white feminism."
    So basically no it's not hypocrisy at all, but people don't want to see the problem when it doesn't affect them... they call this... Privilege.
    If I recall correctly
    Personally, I love the name Photon for Monica. But I had to quote this for straight truth you just placed forth.
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  12. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight_v View Post
    This /10 char I didn't even like the name warbird

    Wait. There's a big difference between genis Vell being Captain Marvel and Carol getting it over giving it back to Monica.

    It's just the hypocrisy of people who don't care about Monica but, probably because they didn't read the Avengers when she was the leader of it. Or maybe because she's black

    Because every single time someone dismisses Monica, while simultaneously exalting Carol as better than sliced bread then....
    The main thing that should jump into people's minds is
    "white feminism."
    So basically no it's not hypocrisy at all, but people don't want to see the problem when it doesn't affect them... they call this... Privilege.
    If I recall correctly
    I like Monica way more than I like Carol. Monica's amazing. She was very much Stern's pet character, and that can sometimes be obnoxious, but Monica was just too damn good a character. She wasn't a character I grew up with - I'm a '90s kid, and Monica was very much sidelined for that whole decade, aside from a few guest appearances I didn't read at the time anyway - but when I got the chance to read Stern's Avengers run, I definitely fell in love with her.

    I still think the way she got the Captain Marvel name was so forced that it was painful.

    The Captain Marvel name works for Carol. Spectrum actually works well for Monica, as a name that reflects her power set. And, hopefully, this time, Genis-Vell won't come along and steal her name again. (Besides, "Spectrum, if you're nasty." That's too good a line for her not to keep that name.)

    We do need more Monica in our lives, though.

  13. #58
    ...of the Black Priests Midnight_v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    Personally, I love the name Photon for Monica. But I had to quote this for straight truth you just placed forth.
    Thanks. Its tough to say things like that but but I get sick of that particular path when basically black girls have approximately "Storm" (who is NOT even CLOSE
    to alot of peoples experience in the u.s.) Mean while... I was checking out that cloak and dagger show while streaming the last fantastic 4 movie.

    Also there's something else...
    ...the people using Monica to hate on Carol for taking the name are hypocrites since they didn't care when someone else did it
    BULL. JUST. BULL.
    Genis became captain marvel in '95.
    How the hell does anyone who wasn't THERE asking how people felt even feel comfortable saying something like this?
    In 95 the internet and World wide web were basically MYSTERIES and even if you were on talking about comic books via DIAL UP YOU WOULD EASILY
    get shouted down by ACTUAL racists and Bullys, not like the basically tame you tubers today.
    Youre talking about when the Majority of the internet was on AoL and was like 4chan minus the laws about pedo talk.

    If find that type of talk disingenuous and full of ignorance.... because I happen to be alive and in highschool and reading the avengers when Monica, Triathalon, and hell RAGE were avengers.
    So if you weren't there to hear us say....
    "Well damn. I guess Monica is really not coming back."
    Ugh. Please. Shut up.

    Also... photon is a terrible name.

    Totally disposable superhero naming convention, basically 90's talk.

    Even if we put "Dr." or "Captain" in front of it... its not the type of thing that ever gets movie.

    Spectrum. Is just another character. That was recently IN the 616.
    But even then when Called Dr. Spectrum its a MUCH better Name...

    and Auntie Monica is just too Aunt Jemima for me. SMH disgust.
    Last edited by Midnight_v; 07-15-2018 at 05:32 PM.
    My priority is enjoying and supporting stories of timeless heroism and conflict.
    Everything else is irrelevant.

  14. #59
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Carol getting a movie and Kamala proving successful mean that Carol is Captain Marvel long term. Kamala's going to be Ms Marvel for the foreseeable future too. The old Carol Ms Marvel/Warbird costume is seen as a fetish these days. It'll next be seen worn by a captured Jessica Jones. If they ever bring back that costume full time, it should be in a future setting. For example, it was used in Ewing's New Avengers by a member of Dani Cage Cap's future Avengers - Marvel Woman.

  15. #60
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Carol getting a movie and Kamala proving successful mean that Carol is Captain Marvel long term. Kamala's going to be Ms Marvel for the foreseeable future too. The old Carol Ms Marvel/Warbird costume is seen as a fetish these days. It'll next be seen worn by a captured Jessica Jones. If they ever bring back that costume full time, it should be in a future setting. For example, it was used in Ewing's New Avengers by a member of Dani Cage Cap's future Avengers - Marvel Woman.
    I'd actually be kind of curious if there will ever be an adaption that will show the Ms. Marvel -> Captain Marvel transition.

    I think the Earth's Mightiest Heroes cartoon might have pulled it off, and they had the last great adaption of Carol in a cartoon in my opinion.

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