New Age of Heroes, Marvel proxies, & The Avengers.....

[DrNewGod]

DC just tried that with "Vigilante" and there didn't seem to be much interest. (Marvel has tried that kind of social relevance as well a few times, to quick cancellations) If anything, Black Lightning is the hero to tackle those issues, since it's addressed in his tv show.

That is such an irony, since the character's original run was so light on dealing with the issues of African-Americans in The US. Still, the BL show has been awesome. Ep 1 made it very clear where they're coming from.

[Ascended]

So, the talk about established characters got me thinking and I have a little example showing how you can take a established IP and turn them into a Marvel analogue for New Age (much like they did with Mr. Terrific).

Turning Blue Beetle into the New Age version of Nova.

Some big threat shows up in Reach space. Something like a full blown Starro invasion or something; a threat that will, if it breaks beyond the Reach, threaten the entire universe. So Jaime, assorted heroes, and space/cosmic empires/characters reluctantly side with the Reach in their attempt to push the enemy horde back. Former foes join forces in the face of a greater danger, and all that. During the big space war, a virus spreads through all Reach technology; destroying and/or killing anything connected to a Reach mainframe. Jaime, because his scarab is disconnected from the Reach and independent, is the only survivor of the Reach empire.

Shades of Annihilation, right?

After the war is finished (with Jaime having a big "rips the villain's spine out of his throat" moment) Jaime finds that the former Reach systems are now full of confused citizens, in a broken down, half destroyed region of space, with no government and no idea of what to do next. Unprotected and lacking the know-how to rebuild their civilizations after centuries under Reach control, these planets need a protector. And Jaime (who may or may not find a power upgrade in the aftermath of the Reach's destruction) takes it upon himself to defend these systems while they rebuild their worlds and cultures.

So that gives us a Annihilation analogue story and establishes a status quo for Jaime that combines the DnA and Sam Alexander eras of Nova. Jaime's a teenaged space hero who will undoubtably still spend plenty of time with his family (ala Sam) but will be the lone sheriff in a huge region of lawless space, operating as the sole survivor of a once-influential stellar empire (ala Richard under DnA's pens).

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I thought Connor Hawke might be a good Iron fist analogue as his solo run dealt with kung-fu mysticism. He was better at martial arts than Ollie or Roy and he hung out with the spirit of Bruce lee once. His last miniseries ended with getting superpowers from dragons blood (or almost).

So i thought about having him be a member of the fist clan.

[Lee Stone]

I wouldn't mind seeing more of the Heroes of Angor (especially Silver Sorceress and Bluejay).

[DrNewGod]

It strikes me as odd that Marvel's DC adaptations (Squadron Supreme, Sentry, etc.) have prospered more than DC's Marvel adaptations (Heroes of Angor, etc.)

[Lee Stone]

It strikes me as odd that Marvel's DC adaptations (Squadron Supreme, Sentry, etc.) have prospered more than DC's Marvel adaptations (Heroes of Angor, etc.)

Even the Imperial Guard gets used pretty regularly, and has fans of their own.

[Ascended]

It strikes me as odd that Marvel's DC adaptations (Squadron Supreme, Sentry, etc.) have prospered more than DC's Marvel adaptations (Heroes of Angor, etc.)

I've noticed that too, over the years.

DC's always been a little more black and white than Marvel, and that's poor soil to grow a viable anti-hero (like Logan) or monster (like Hulk) in. And the bigger-than-life nature of the DCU doesn't leave a lot of room to build and invest in a Everyman like Peter Parker (though DC does have some great ones like Roy Harper, Jaime Reyes, and Kyle Rayner).

At the same time, Marvel struggles with certain DC analogues. They've got a billion Superman riffs but none of them have ever done terribly well. I suppose you could argue that Captain Marvel is the biggest Superman analogue Marvel has, and Carol still struggles. Characters like Sentry and Blue Marvel spend more time in limbo than they do in print.

I don't think there's as many differences between the companies as people think. They are, really, virtually identical, with a few exceptions. But the big names at DC tend to be different archetypes than the big names at Marvel (still plenty of overlap even then), so the illusion that these two fictional universes are radically different persist. But yeah, there's some things that one does better than the other and for my money, that's where the really interesting analogues come from.

So, looking at the various Avengers proxies DC has had over the years, three major ones come to mind. First the heroes of Angor, then Morrison's Seven Soldiers (which started as a Avengers riff even if it ended very differently) and the Freedom Fighters (which DC tried to MCU-iffy in the New52). Of those three major options, I think Morrison was by far the most successful, Angor didn't rip things off enough, and the Freedom Fighters never got off the ground enough to really tell, but as individuals none of them seemed as interesting as the 2000's era version of the team that Palometti and Gray wrote.

[krazijoe]

Wasn't Vibe their attempt at a street level hero?

[Korath]

Thinking bout it...beyonf the minorities-focused characters and the cosmic empires... is there things that DC hasn't that Marvel has ? I've a hard time finding them if that's the case !

[DrNewGod]

Thinking bout it...beyonf the minorities-focused characters and the cosmic empires... is there things that DC hasn't that Marvel has ? I've a hard time finding them if that's the case !

The X-Men have been mentioned, and although some of their space (training young superheroes, outcasts) has been touched upon, their true core has not. Of course, it's another minorities-focused case, but the Meta-Humans were never subjected to the scale of individual and systemic racism that's been Marvel's Mutants bread and butter. Ultimately, as others have mentioned, DC has been more reluctant to take on those kinds of issues in the past.

One space they might be able to do that is to create essentially a DCU Hogwarts, as a metaphor for religious and cultural intolerance. Perhaps headed up by a board (that also functions as part-time, special topics faculty) consisting of Zatanna, Raven, and a few others in that class (leave heavy weights like The Phantom Stranger and Dr. Fate out of it), the school is a safe place to study for those who cannot resist the call to follow their talents, without fear of persecution by those who cannot distinguish between "different" and "unholy."

[Korath]

So, with the october solicits, it's clear that both Doctor Doom and the Abomination will have their counterparts at DC. It's blatantly clear for Doom even, I mean I thought that the cover for this issue of Terrifics was a FF one for a second !

[Ascended]

So, with the october solicits, it's clear that both Doctor Doom and the Abomination will have their counterparts at DC. It's blatantly clear for Doom even, I mean I thought that the cover for this issue of Terrifics was a FF one for a second !

I know! It's everything I could hope for and more!!

[Ascended]

The X-Men have been mentioned, and although some of their space (training young superheroes, outcasts) has been touched upon, their true core has not. Of course, it's another minorities-focused case, but the Meta-Humans were never subjected to the scale of individual and systemic racism that's been Marvel's Mutants bread and butter. Ultimately, as others have mentioned, DC has been more reluctant to take on those kinds of issues in the past.

One space they might be able to do that is to create essentially a DCU Hogwarts, as a metaphor for religious and cultural intolerance. Perhaps headed up by a board (that also functions as part-time, special topics faculty) consisting of Zatanna, Raven, and a few others in that class (leave heavy weights like The Phantom Stranger and Dr. Fate out of it), the school is a safe place to study for those who cannot resist the call to follow their talents, without fear of persecution by those who cannot distinguish between "different" and "unholy."

The Doom Patrol has often been cited as DC's version of the X-Men, but I agree; DC has never tackled the topics of racism and intolerance to the extent that Marvel has with the mutants.

I suspect that DC might be trying to dip a toe into this with the new Titans, where Dick and his team are hunting down new metas who can't control their powers. But we've seen DC try this before and it usually doesn't stick.

I figure the best we can get is some stuff on the fringe, same as we've had before. The DCU pre-dates concerns about representation and equality by several decades, and those topics aren't as cooked in as they are with Marvel. They get addressed, but they're not as big a part of the core tapestry.

[DrNewGod]

The Doom Patrol has often been cited as DC's version of the X-Men, but I agree; DC has never tackled the topics of racism and intolerance to the extent that Marvel has with the mutants.

IMO, the comparison has always been flawed. I see why it happens (both led by mysterious smart dudes in wheel chairs, both loaded up with mistrusted freaks with one power a piece). Especially since they released more or less simultaneously, I've wondered if both The X-Men and The Doom Patrol were attempts at a grittier (for The Silver Age) form of The Fantastic Four, who were The Big Deal in superhero comics at the time.