Does Marvel count overseas sales?

[Spidercide]

I live in the UK and have a few titles that I really want to survive or who have new status quos I really want to support.

I've pre-ordered two copies of some of those and even asked for the variants (I hate the variant cover culture, but this is how serious I am about supporting these titles/status quos) and even done the same at another store.

I am aware that pre-ordering is a MASSIVE aspect of how good sales are on any given title but since I live outside the USA I need to know if I am just wasting my money or if I really am supporting the books with my wallet?

[Prof. Warren]

I live in the UK and have a few titles that I really want to survive or who have new status quos I really want to support.

I've pre-ordered two copies of some of those and even asked for the variants (I hate the variant cover culture, but this is how serious I am about supporting these titles/status quos) and even done the same at another store.

I am aware that pre-ordering is a MASSIVE aspect of how good sales are on any given title but since I live outside the USA I need to know if I am just wasting my money or if I really am supporting the books with my wallet?

Of course they count overseas sales.

They count all sales, period.

There's no such thing as a company that doesn't pay attention to every dime that comes to them.

Whether you buy your comics in the US, the UK, Canada, or anyplace else on the planet, it matters.

[Spidercide]

Of course they count overseas sales.

They count all sales, period.

There's no such thing as a company that doesn't pay attention to every dime that comes to them.

Whether you buy your comics in the US, the UK, Canada, or anyplace else on the planet, it matters.

Well...that's not strictly speaking true.

Brevoort stated digital sales don't really matter and nor do trade sales.

SpaceTwinks in two essays he did made it clear that the only sales that actually matter to Marvel are pre-orders of hard copy single issues from at least 3 months in advance.

Even if you walk into a store on the day of release and pick up an issue you are just helping that store clear out their stock as opposed to really registering a sale on Marvel's end of things.

Furthermore Japanese companies actually prioritize sales for anime and manga within Japan. Like if an anime's ratings are bad in Japan it will get cancelled regardless of how well it does in other countries or across the globe over all.

Also...yeah there is absolutely such a thing as compaies that don't pay attention to every dime they get. Incompetence doesn't disappear just because you are in a company.

[Cloudman]

I don't believe international sales are included in the Diamond Comic Distributor figures, which are the ones you will often see posted in the sales discussion threads here. Marvel themselves, however, will of course take note of all of their sales regardless of country in one way or another.

Honestly, comic books in the UK is such a tiny industry that Marvel probably don't care much about how many copies get sold here. I wouldn't waste your money on books solely for the purpose of 'supporting' them, unless you are actually going to read and enjoy the books, or get some sentimental value out of the variants. By all means buy books that you're interested in, but you're better off not thinking of it as 'supporting' the books. You're not supporting the books any more than you're supporting your favoured toothpaste brand, pizza company or car manufacturer. Marvel aren't in this for charity.

[Spidercide]

I don't believe international sales are included in the Diamond Comic Distributor figures, which are the ones you will often see posted in the sales discussion threads here. Marvel themselves, however, will of course take note of all of their sales regardless of country.

Honestly, comic books in the UK is such a tiny industry that Marvel probably don't care much about how many copies get sold here. I wouldn't waste your money on books solely for the purpose of 'supporting' them, unless you are actually going to read and enjoy the books, or get some sentimental value out of the variants. By all means buy books that you're interested in, but you're better off not thinking of it as 'supporting' the books. You're not supporting the books any more than you're supporting your favoured toothpaste brand, pizza company or car manufacturer. Marvel aren't in this for charity.

Of course they aren't in it for charity.

But I'm asking if in buying a book I'm giving them a sale that they will count towards the over all sales of a series to determine whether or not to continue or cancel it.

[Cloudman]

Of course they aren't in it for charity.

But I'm asking if in buying a book I'm giving them a sale that they will count towards the over all sales of a series to determine whether or not to continue or cancel it.

The answer's yes, then.

[Prof. Warren]

Well...that's not strictly speaking true.

Brevoort stated digital sales don't really matter and nor do trade sales.

SpaceTwinks in two essays he did made it clear that the only sales that actually matter to Marvel are pre-orders of hard copy single issues from at least 3 months in advance.

Even if you walk into a store on the day of release and pick up an issue you are just helping that store clear out their stock as opposed to really registering a sale on Marvel's end of things.

Furthermore Japanese companies actually prioritize sales for anime and manga within Japan. Like if an anime's ratings are bad in Japan it will get cancelled regardless of how well it does in other countries or across the globe over all.

Also...yeah there is absolutely such a thing as compaies that don't pay attention to every dime they get. Incompetence doesn't disappear just because you are in a company.

"Do sales count?"

Yes.

"But wait, what about...."

No, they all count.

"But some companies..."

THEY ALL COUNT.

"But Brevoort said..."

Look, just buy the fuc*ing comic if you want to buy it.

[responsarbre]

Well...that's not strictly speaking true.

Brevoort stated digital sales don't really matter and nor do trade sales.

SpaceTwinks in two essays he did made it clear that the only sales that actually matter to Marvel are pre-orders of hard copy single issues from at least 3 months in advance.

I think you're sort of misinterpreting the idea of those ST essays. It's not that other forms of sales are completely ignored by Marvel (a company that cares about penny-pinching and the bottom line as much as they do definitely look at every single dollar that comes their way), but they tend not to figure into most of their important decision-making like whether or not to cancel a book because they do that way ahead of time. I guess the idea is that they usually just estimate trade and digital sales based off of the Diamond orders. That's how you get in situations where Iron Patriot was cancelled into a miniseries before the first issue even came out.

I think it's plainly false to assume that they completely don't count any sales besides Diamond pre-orders because of all the series they keep alive despite low sales on the Diamond chart: Ms. Marvel has dipped below cancellation numbers on the Diamond chart, but it's in Marvel's interest to keep producing Ms. Marvel TPBs since they sell big numbers (and it's easy to imagine it has sizable digital sales as well), Squirrel-Girl and Moon Girl reportedly sell great through the children's markets in collected editions (hence the production of a SG graphic novel alongside the main series), and most recently, it seems that Wasp and Iceman got revived on the strength of secondary sales.

In any case, considering your original question, there's more than enough reason to think your sales are counted by Marvel with the rest of their preorders. There's no reason for Diamond to exclude international numbers in their reports to publishers, and Marvel is definitely well aware of how much is ordered overseas because they have to print enough to export after they get the orders. Kieron Gillen even made a helpful instructional video showing his fans how to preorder comics at his local (British) comic shop. If preordering in the U.K. didnt amount to anything, why would he do that?

[skyvolt2000]

I live in the UK and have a few titles that I really want to survive or who have new status quos I really want to support.

I've pre-ordered two copies of some of those and even asked for the variants (I hate the variant cover culture, but this is how serious I am about supporting these titles/status quos) and even done the same at another store.

I am aware that pre-ordering is a MASSIVE aspect of how good sales are on any given title but since I live outside the USA I need to know if I am just wasting my money or if I really am supporting the books with my wallet?

Vertigo's Hellblazer lasted 300 issues and last thanks to trade sales mainly in the UK.

But whatever sales data Marvel can get-those sales count.

Don't let ANY Marvel employee tell they don't.

You could not justify axing Ms Marvel's book-when she KILLS in trade sales & digital. Same with Moon Girl & Squirrel Girl. Heck you can toss in Miles.

Those Black Panther spinoffs? Before that film they were killing DC Rebirth on Amazon. The Film made those beatings WORST. So of course you got a Shuri & Wakanda Forever books.

It's why Iceman came back and I am shocked America hasn't gotten a new shot yet.

Tom can make up whatever lie he wants but DISNEY is still writing the checks.

[Spidercide]

The answer's yes, then.

At which point getting multiple issues is helpful as it increases sales for the series and contributes towards it's hopeful continuation.

"Do sales count?"

Yes.

"But wait, what about...."

No, they all count.

"But some companies..."

THEY ALL COUNT.

"But Brevoort said..."

Look, just buy the fuc*ing comic if you want to buy it.

You are being belligerent.

You did indeed answer yes but the entire reason I was asking was because the presumptions upon which you conditioned your answer were in fact not iron clad certainties.

E.g. you said that all sales count.

We know for a fact that no they do not, trade and digital sales are rarely if ever taken into account when determining the survival of a series. Pre-orders of physical copies of single issues from 3+ months in advance does.

Again that is a pretty well known fact within the industry and THE reason that so many titles are dead on arrival and get cancelled before issue #1 even comes out.

You said there is no such thing as a company that doesn't copiously track every penny they earn.

Again this is objectively not true for the plane of reality we both happen to inhabit.

My question was thus contingent upon the context specific to me. If they would count ME as an overseas customer pre-ordering the physical copies of the single issues 3+ months in advance.

But congratulations you've been a jerk about it.

I think you're sort of misinterpreting the idea of those ST essays. It's not that other forms of sales are completely ignored by Marvel (a company that cares about penny-pinching and the bottom line as much as they do definitely look at every single dollar that comes their way), but they tend not to figure into most of their important decision-making like whether or not to cancel a book because they do that way ahead of time. I guess the idea is that they usually just estimate trade and digital sales based off of the Diamond orders. That's how you get in situations where Iron Patriot was cancelled into a miniseries before the first issue even came out.

I think it's plainly false to assume that they completely don't count any sales besides Diamond pre-orders because of all the series they keep alive despite low sales on the Diamond chart: Ms. Marvel has dipped below cancellation numbers on the Diamond chart, but it's in Marvel's interest to keep producing Ms. Marvel TPBs since they sell big numbers (and it's easy to imagine it has sizable digital sales as well), Squirrel-Girl and Moon Girl reportedly sell great through the children's markets in collected editions (hence the production of a SG graphic novel alongside the main series), and most recently, it seems that Wasp and Iceman got revived on the strength of secondary sales.

In any case, considering your original question, there's more than enough reason to think your sales are counted by Marvel with the rest of their preorders. There's no reason for Diamond to exclude international numbers in their reports to publishers, and Marvel is definitely well aware of how much is ordered overseas because they have to print enough to export after they get the orders. Kieron Gillen even made a helpful instructional video showing his fans how to preorder comics at his local (British) comic shop. If preordering in the U.K. didnt amount to anything, why would he do that?

ST more or less spelled out that only single issue pre-orders count. I mean you yourself basically said that other forms of sales tend not to factor into whether something continues or cancels. At which point...isn't that essentially the same thing?

[DT Winslow]

But all sales do count. They may not count equally, but they count. Yes, Diamond US will be given the most consideration as it’s the largest distribution area but digital, trades and Diamond UK (is that still a thing?) all count toward the overall survival of a series. Brevoort has never said they don’t count at all. He knows they count. All sales count and are tracked. They are not, however, all given the same weight. That’s how sales and sales channels work. Plenty of series are alive thanks mainly to Scholastic book fair sales and digital that would otherwise die in the direct market.

Warren’s main point is still solid, tho. Buy what you like and don’t worry about the rest. All that matters is that you are enjoying it. Enjoy it for however long it lasts. If it gets cancelled, it gets cancelled. That’s the game.

And seriously, Al, stop using ‘objectively’ in your arguments. It only makes them sound more neck beard-y.

[Spidercide]

But all sales do count. They may not count equally, but they count. Yes, Diamond US will be given the most consideration as it’s the largest distribution area but digital, trades and Diamond UK (is that still a thing?) all count toward the overall survival of a series. Brevoort has never said they don’t count at all. He knows they count. All sales count and are tracked. They are not, however, all given the same weight. That’s how sales and sales channels work. Plenty of series are alive thanks mainly to Scholastic book fair sales and digital that would otherwise die in the direct market.

Warren’s main point is still solid, tho. Buy what you like and don’t worry about the rest. All that matters is that you are enjoying it. Enjoy it for however long it lasts. If it gets cancelled, it gets cancelled. That’s the game.

And seriously, Al, stop using ‘objectively’ in your arguments. It only makes them sound more neck beard-y.

a) Don’t tell me what to do
b) The word objectively is objectively a term that has a meaning that has been used for goddam centuries. Not only have i never in my entire life encountered the idea that it’s somehow associated with ‘neckbeards’ but even if it is so what? That’s nothing more than a shallow modern cultural association no more valid than people throwing around ‘schizophrenia’ when they mean Dissociative Personality Disorder. The word is the word and using the damn word in conjunction with it’s meaning should never at any point be frowned upon merely due to it’s perceived association with something (allegedly) negative
c) Neckbeard is a derisive body shaming term used to ridicule someone based upon their appearance with a presumption that negative personality traits are somehow linked to them. It is like this warped rendition of claiming a traditionally beautiful woman must be shallow and stupid. It’s problematic unto itself so yeah why don’t YOU stop using it.
d) Warren’s point though it entirely NOT valid if you bothered to actually read my OP and our corresponding exchange.


Buy what you like and don’t worry about the rest is all well and good but I WANT certain series to continue and if buying multiple copies will contribute to that then I will, but if it won’t I will save my hard earned cash which is what the thread is actually about. I want to know if my buying practices help or not and if not I can save my money and use it for something else.


As I’ve discovered YES it will help, buying multiple copies will boost the numbers and in a small way contribute to the survival of comic book series I enjoy.



The ‘that’s the game the chips will fall as they will fall’ attitude is not really a logical one in this market where you have a direct impact towards helping to get the outcome you want.



Like seriously the old Spider-Girl fans would shake their heads at that mentality since it WAS them campaigning and buying multiple copies that saved that series from cancellation MULTIPLE times.



Of course I can buy what I want, in fact I could easily read it digitially and either pay less or else just wait six months and read it on Marvel Unlimited. Hell I could borrow a friend’s copy or friend’s account to do that and save all my money.


I don’t just want to read and enjoy the series as it happens I want it to CONTINUE so I can CONTINUE to enjoy it.



Hence I asked if me as an overseas customer pre-ordering hard copy single issues gets counted the way it does in the US where that is the sole/primary barometer for a series’ success.



More helpful repliers above have confirmed for me that yet it does.

[DT Winslow]

You’ve said nothing of value here and only yelled at those trying to help, as you always do, insisting your opinion is better than everyone elses, making long, often incomprehensible and belligerent posts. You have a chip on your shoulder that no one but you can remove. I’m glad you want to support what you love but you could learn to do so without yelling at people, insisting their opinions are not as ‘objectively’ valid as yours.

You’re on my ignore list now, tho I doubt you care.

[Spidercide]

You’ve said nothing of value here and only yelled at those trying to help, as you always do, insisting your opinion is better than everyone elses, making long, often incomprehensible and belligerent posts. You have a chip on your shoulder that no one but you can remove. I’m glad you want to support what you love but you could learn to do so without yelling at people, insisting their opinions are not as ‘objectively’ valid as yours.

You’re on my ignore list now, tho I doubt you care.

I asked a question for my personal use. I wasn’t trying to enrich anybody’s mind.



I’ve yelled at no one except you in my last reply but that was more to add emphasis to the words I was speaking without having to bold them since I am typing on Word and not in the CBR forum itself.


Warren’s initial information was unhelpful and I corrected him about some presumptions he floated (e.g. there is no such thing as a company that doesn’t keep track of every penny, something provably untrue I literally know people who do that). Then you came in and said he was right to tell me to just buy what i wanted to enjoy it in spite of...literally the point of the thread as indicated by the OP where I asked about whether my buying extra copies would contribute to the overall sales.



I’ve not insisted my opinion is superior. I stated a fact. He and you both said just buy what you want to enjoy it whereas I was asking if my sales would count towards the survival of the book. You took the view that it wouldn’t, but not because I live overseas but because everyone should just do that in spite of you know...it being provably untrue that for USA dwelling customers buying extra copies DOES help a series out.



As it turns out I did get my answer because unlike you some people in this thread were actually helpful and paid attention to what I was asking.



Have I maybe been insulting? Yes...just now in the above sentence. Have I been challenging? Depends what you mean by challenging. I questioned Warren’s first comment and responsarbre but I certainly meant no ill will in doing that. When I said “T more or less spelled out that only single issue pre-orders count. I mean you yourself basically said that other forms of sales tend not to factor into whether something continues or cancels. At which point...isn't that essentially the same thing?” That wasn’t me trying to debunk them. It was me offering a counterpoint, I was more than open to hearing them reply as they did clarify for me that other forms of sales count but not as much. Hell YOU even did that before you started to insult and tried to police me


Was I confrontation towards you and Warren’s second comment. Yes I absolutely was. But you know....you both actively insulted me out of nowhere so you know I’m kind of entitled to be confrontational.


Notice how I never swore at you or Warren as the latter did, nor called anyone any insulting names like a neckbeard as YOU did.



Frankly when you called me that I was well within my rights to tell you to go <swear words deleted>...but I didn’t.


My posts are long because I try to address everything.


I never insist my opinion is better. If you liked an issue and I hated it fine. That’s your opinion. What I argue fiercely over is not matters of opinion but of objectively what stuff is.



Oh yeah I get belligerent at times. Which is kind of hard not to do when dealing with people like you or Warren, one need look no further than your responses on this very thread. If I have a chip on my shoulder then buddy folks like you put it there.



So why don’t you crawl off and try not insulting other people with OBJECTIVLY crude phrases like ‘neckbeard’.



There. NOW you can really say I yelled!