Harley Quinn Birds of Prey movie?

[kjn]

It could have been more of a team movie (not even the Avengers or X-Men are created equal, though) and my reason for watching were the Birds and Black Mask. The villains were fun. Planning to rewatch it soon.

I'd say that Birds of Prey was more of a team movie than the first X-Men or Guardians of the Galaxy, at least in the sense of giving the non-lead team members a chance to shine. Black Canary got a real character arc.

I do think it should have been titled "Harley Quinn: #MeToo". Because that would tell much more on what the movie was, and would have been a giant **** you to all the misogynist haters on Youtube.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Okay, sure, but there does come a point though where you have to judge a film for what it presents and not what you think it should be. I don't think its fair criticism to say the entire cast, plot, etc of the film should be different and then you'll like it.

Agree to disagree. I think using minority characters to prop up the whitest girl ever is a valid complaint

And I'm a WASP, because ya ask

[basbash99]

My complaint is that the minority characters were used to prop up the Whitest Girl ever, who's super power is poor choice in men. And BoP were also in the title, just sayin'.

Oh, no doubt the film would have been better with more time devoted to the BoP characters... I liked the movie despite Harley, not because of her. But given that it was a Harley movie and the BoP were incorporated into the film at Robbie's urging, i was never under the impression that the BoP characters would get equal time in the movie.

As to whether each BoP could've headlined their own movie, i could easily buy Mary Elizabeth Winstead headlining a Huntress movie (especially since its so Bat-related), Jurnee has the acting chops, action moves, and looks to pull it off (especially after seeing more of her on Lovecraft Country), so maybe a Canary movie would've flown. The other two would need to be recast and reimagined and frankly i'm not sure the Question really would do well as a movie, probably better suited to a consipracy-oriented tv series or mini-series. Being bat-adjacent, yeah a Cassandra Cain movie would probably work although not sure how different it would be from a huntress movie, i guess huntress is a more like punisher type so there is that.

[ed2962]

What part of the story would have had a bad ass Cass whupping ass?

It could have happened at several points.

This sorta goes back though to something that came up in the "Why Female Action Movies Fail" Thread...that often these movies will be re-written for females to make them more "likeable as women" or something. Giving Harley a matronly/big sister role to a younger person fulfills that function. However, comic accurate Cain wouldn't need protecting so perhaps they re-wrote her as a teenaged pick pocket. Of course, I wasn't the the producer's room when the scripts came in but I can easily see this happening.

[Pinsir]

Agree to disagree. I think using minority characters to prop up the whitest girl ever is a valid complaint

And I'm a WASP, because ya ask

So...you would rather the film not have any minority characters then? Make it taboo to have a white protagonist have a brown supporting cast?

[The Cool Thatguy]

So...you would rather the film not have any minority characters then? Make it taboo to have a white protagonist have a brown supporting cast?

I'd rather not have minority characters minimized for the sake of a white protagonist who's main power is bad choices in men. Harley's cartoon gets by just fine without doing that.

[Wandering_Wand]

I'd rather not have minority characters minimized for the sake of a white protagonist who's main power is bad choices in men. Harley's cartoon gets by just fine without doing that.

Sheesh, my turn to have the soapbox now...

Harley Quinn, right now and when the movie was being made, was/is arguably more popular than the entire Birds of Prey. It was very likely a simple decision to have the most popular character (Harley) upfront. Secondly, this movie was Margot Robbie’s, who, ya know, plays the titular character. She wrote it, produced it, and picked the director (also a non-White).

I’ve tended to look at the movie as healthy in the sense that it did get P.O.C upfront and in the lead. Instead, people like you still find circles to weave and undermine it to “it was a brown supporting cast; NOT GOOD ENOUGH!”

Personally, I did want more BOP and less Harley and thought the movie suffered for going with the opposite.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Sheesh, my turn to have the soapbox now...

Harley Quinn, right now and when the movie was being made, was/is arguably more popular than the entire Birds of Prey. It was very likely a simple decision to have the most popular character (Harley) upfront. Secondly, this movie was Margot Robbie’s, who, ya know, plays the titular character. She wrote it, produced it, and picked the director (also a non-White).

I’ve tended to look at the movie as healthy in the sense that it did get P.O.C upfront and in the lead. Instead, people like you still find circles to weave and undermine it to “it was a brown supporting cast; NOT GOOD ENOUGH!”

Personally, I did want more BOP and less Harley and thought the movie suffered for going with the opposite.

First, I don't really see 'Because Harley is more popular, she gets to step over everyone' as that valid an argument. Guardians, Ant-Man, plenty of properties have made it big without big name recognition. By misusing the characters, it helps ensure that they never become popular. This was Cass' first debut outside of comics, think anyone will remember her?

Second, I wish people would stop saying this was Margot Robbie's movie, like that was a good thing. Plenty of stars involve themselves in the plotting of a movie for the sake of their own career. Will Smith rewrites his dialogue all the time, Vin Diesel, jason statham and the Rock all have it written in their contract that they can only be punched so many times, etc.

You say that Margot Robbie contributed to the story and plotting every step of the way. I say that the plotting made the supporting cast props for Harley. I don't see how those two statements conflict, frankly.

Also...

"I’ve tended to look at the movie as healthy in the sense that it did get P.O.C upfront and in the lead. Instead, people like you still find circles to weave and undermine it to “it was a brown supporting cast; NOT GOOD ENOUGH!”

Well, yeah. They should have contributed and interacted more. They should be characters

[Captain Smith]

Started to watch it and it was flat out stupid from the beginning.

Technical complaint, Harley says she got a PhD and became a psychiatrist. Psychiatrists are MDs.

[Pinsir]

I'd rather not have minority characters minimized for the sake of a white protagonist who's main power is bad choices in men. Harley's cartoon gets by just fine without doing that.

So you would rather have less minority characters in the DCEU and in media broadly.

[The Cool Thatguy]

So you would rather have less minority characters in the DCEU and in media broadly.

I don't feel that it's an either/or situation, frankly.

And when they're not given a decent chance to shine? We get less.

Harley is already confirmed to be back in the next Suicide Squad, and I believe another solo movie.

And the BoP?

Crickets.

Harley's movie did good overall, but did not match expectations. Who's neck do you think they hung that around?

[Gaelforce]

Sheesh, my turn to have the soapbox now...

Harley Quinn, right now and when the movie was being made, was/is arguably more popular than the entire Birds of Prey. It was very likely a simple decision to have the most popular character (Harley) upfront. Secondly, this movie was Margot Robbie’s, who, ya know, plays the titular character. She wrote it, produced it, and picked the director (also a non-White).

I’ve tended to look at the movie as healthy in the sense that it did get P.O.C upfront and in the lead. Instead, people like you still find circles to weave and undermine it to “it was a brown supporting cast; NOT GOOD ENOUGH!”

Personally, I did want more BOP and less Harley and thought the movie suffered for going with the opposite.

1. Robbie doesn't have a writing credit on BOP.
2. Robbie, as one of 10 producers, had a hand in the director, but she wasn't solely responsible for choosing her.
3. Iron Man had no name recognition and was hardly the most popular character out there (his comic was not in the top 50), so banking on that isn't any guarantee.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Mary Elisabeth Winstead needs a Huntress spin-off ASAP.

[Captain Smith]

The hand held crossbow is a trivial weapon unless the darts are drugged or poisoned. A full bow or crossbow like Ollie's bow is an awesome weapon, this is a toy. Terrible movie.

[Noodle]

The hand held crossbow is a trivial weapon unless the darts are drugged or poisoned. A full bow or crossbow like Ollie's bow is an awesome weapon, this is a toy. Terrible movie.

Having a character be comic accurate by using the weapon they are most associated with makes it a terrible movie?