Children of Magento yes or no ?

[Steel Inquisitor]

And I'm saying Magneto was only a sperm donor until he was wrote out. And now he's gone.

Which I'm disagreeing with.

Acting like Wanda contributed to how Mags treated her from the start is gross, don't do that.

What? How did you get to that conclusion from what I said?

HoM IS the story where he murdered Pietro. IT is NOT a positive dad moment that you are trying to paint. This is my problem with Mags being her dad. People cannot accept who he is. That he moves from villain to gray area. You want to paint him in a better picture and make him seem like Dad of the year. But we just aren't seeing what you see. It's bs fanfiction.

Magneto is far from the Dad of the Year, but he did get moments in that with Wanda, and Children's Crusade. He's an evil man, a mass murdering psychopath but you'd be wrong to deny him the moments he's behaved himself in the comics since he's got depth. The only gray area I'm interested in is his relationship with Wanda, which has nothing to do with the other parts of his life. So Magneto didn't protect her from the X-men in Children's Crusade?

Wolverine and X-Men is an alt universe. Not Wanda of 616. Wanda wasn't at all like the cartoons. The cartoons have been my theory of why people push for this relationship. Because they paint a rosy picture. There's no Wanda and Pietro chained to a wall. Being used when they can't fight back to rejoin. It just sticks Wanda in an era of the Brotherhood without the abuse part. Don't say someone doesn't know their character and then bring up stuff from a cartoon of a completely different universe to try and explain why. We are talking about the books here.

The only reason I bought up WatX is to get a handle on the "princess" thing that was randomly bought up and never explained. There was no reason to link WatX to my thought processes since I never bought them up to begin with. WaTx had nothing to do with how I viewed Wanda. You should have explained this earlier and clearer. I could have used this pages ago to understand where you're coming from rather than having to come up with theories of my own to fill in your blanks. Communication is key.

[Lucyinthesky]

Mags being sorry or showing he cares in brief, random points doesn't make for a significant father/daughter dynamic. Because it's typical for abusive parents to do that. Sometimes it's to keep their children by their side, so they can control them. Sometimes it's because while they are sorry, they can't control their temper. That is all their relationship has been. The crazy murderous Mags that abused them that they'd try to get away from, then them want to give him a chance, then he has another heel turn towards villainy.

Magneto doesn`t live with them, I also posted images of Wanda being worried about him not just of Magneto and of him protecting her and not abusing her or even asking amything back for his help, to me this means their relationship is bigger than just mags being murderous and abusing them, it`s not for you, that`s ok, but that`s also just your oppinion, I have seen other fans of Wanda that still like their relationship and without denying their past in the brotherhood also see the potential of their relationship helping the character development of both characters .

There hasn't been consistent great moments between them just a back and forth. It's toxic. It's not good. And romanticizing it by cherry picking when he showed he cared does not fix it. Because again, that is a big part of abusive relationships.

I don`t think the act of healing a relationship and accepting the damage done is toxic or romanticizing, at not point has magneto asked to be forgiven for what he did to them or to force her or pietro to have a relationship with him, he has given them their space but has been there when they have had need of his help, that to me is the opposite of toxic, you don`t share my pov, that`s ok. Lest agree to disagree then and leave it at that.

[GenericUsername]

Which I'm disagreeing with.



What? How did you get to that conclusion from what I said?



Magneto is far from the Dad of the Year, but he did get moments in that with Wanda, and Children's Crusade. He's an evil man, a mass murdering psychopath but you'd be wrong to deny him the moments he's behaved himself in the comics since he's got depth. The only gray area I'm interested in is his relationship with Wanda, which has nothing to do with the other parts of his life. So Magneto didn't protect her from the X-men in Children's Crusade?



The only reason I bought up WatX is to get a handle on the "princess" thing that was randomly bought up and never explained. There was no reason to link WatX to my thought processes since I never bought them up to begin with. WaTx had nothing to do with how I viewed Wanda. You should have explained this earlier and clearer. I could have used this pages ago to understand where you're coming from rather than having to come up with theories of my own to fill in your blanks. Communication is key.

"You're ignoring how explosive their relationship has been with each other"

How was she explosive to him? She gave him multiple chances. Again, HoM and CC don't undo anything. Where was the relationship?

I'm saying his moments he "behaved himself" are always the prequel before he's turned again. And are typical in abusive relationships.

[GenericUsername]

Magneto doesn`t live with them, I also posted images of Wanda being worried about him not just of Magneto and of him protecting her and not abusing her or even asking amything back for his help, to me this means their relationship is bigger than just mags being murderous and abusing them, it`s not for you, that`s ok, but that`s also just your oppinion, I have seen other fans of Wanda that still like their relationship and without denying their past in the brotherhood also see the potential of their relationship helping the character development of both characters .



I don`t think the act of healing a relationship and accepting the damage done is toxic or romanticizing, at not point has magneto asked to be forgiven for what he did to them or to force her or pietro to have a relationship with him, he has given them their space but has been there when they have had need of his help, that to me is the opposite of toxic, you don`t share my pov, that`s ok. Lest agree to disagree then and leave it at that.

Why would he need to live with them?

There are also fans ok with her being incestuous with Pietro in Ultimates. And ship, make fan art etc of that. That's not gonna convince me to feel like Wanda would be better with Mags as her dad. No one has been able to tell me once how this would be better for her.

He didn't heal the relationship lol. He's acting good until the next time he's a villain. It's how things are with him. We will definitely have to agree to disagree if you think a chance should be given to him to heal a relationship when it's taken decades. Especially since like I said, that's typical for abusers. I am definitely never gonna be in that corner.

[Lucyinthesky]

Why would he need to live with them?

The examples you posted about an abusive relationship were about one manipulating the other under the facade of caring, those happen usually when they have long terms of interaction or when they live in the same place which is not the case of Magneto, Pietro and Wanda.

There are also fans ok with her being incestuous with Pietro in Ultimates. And ship, make fan art etc of that. That's not gonna convince me to feel like Wanda would be better with Mags as her dad. No one has been able to tell me once how this would be better for her.

Oh please, I am not talking about the Ultimate universe, no character was really him/her on that universe seriously the fans I talked about are fans of 616 comic Wanda who know her comic story inside and out some of them don`t even like MCU Wanda because she`s too different to comic Wanda and has not been defined that well either.

He didn't heal the relationship lol. He's acting good until the next time he's a villain. It's how things are with him. We will definitely have to agree to disagree if you think a chance should be given to him to heal a relationship when it's taken decades. Especially since like I said, that's typical for abusers. I am definitely never gonna be in that corner.

I am not saying a chance should be given to him, I am simply saying they do have a relationship that`s not toxic or abusive and that marvel has chosen to show it on their canon interactions and could be developed to be more than what has been and that I liked what little we could see of their relationship, that`s all really. I know it depends mostly on marvel future plans for them on their own or appart, with or without the retcon.

[GenericUsername]

The examples you posted about an abusive relationship were about one manipulating the other under the facade of caring, those happen usually when they have long terms of interaction or when they live in the same place which is not the case of Magneto, Pietro and Wanda.



Oh please, I am not talking about the Ultimate universe, no character was really him/her on that universe seriously the fans I talked about are fans of 616 comic Wanda who know her comic story inside and out some of them don`t even like MCU Wanda because she`s too different to comic Wanda and has not been defined that well either.



I am not saying a chance should be given to him, I am simply saying they do have a relationship that`s not toxic or abusive and that marvel has chosen to show it on their canon interactions and could be developed to be more than what has been and that I liked what little we could see of their relationship, that`s all really. I know it depends mostly on marvel future plans for them on their own or appart, with or without the retcon.

The abusive moments happened during Brotherhood years, when they were in one area together. The manipulation when he came around pretending to be good, but really wanted to try and force them back into the Brotherhood.

I'm using Ultimates as an example of what lots of fans like online. So just because they like stuff, doesn't mean I'm gonna go for it. They are ok with a lot of messed up stuff. So they'd likely like abuse and manipulation too. And those include comics readers. Not just MCU people.

No they don't have a relationship that's not toxic, because those moments where he's ok are brief and are usually very one sided or when Pietro or Wanda aren't even around.

[Lucyinthesky]

The abusive moments happened during Brotherhood years, when they were in one area together. The manipulation when he came around pretending to be good, but really wanted to try and force them back into the Brotherhood.

That was back during the silver age when he was quite literally crazy and didn`t have an idea they were related, he never approached them PRENTENDING to be good, he just tried to be close to them in any way he was allowed to be like the thanks giving party or the births of the twins If what you said was really his intention he would have used agaist Wanda his defense of her from the Avengers after Avengers Dissasembled but that`s really not the case.

I'm using Ultimates as an example of what lots of fans like online. So just because they like stuff, doesn't mean I'm gonna go for it. They are ok with a lot of messed up stuff. So they'd likely like abuse and manipulation too. And those include comics readers. Not just MCU people.

My point stands that the Wanda fans I talked about were neither ultimate or MCU fans so don`t see why you bring ultimate comics at all.

No they don't have a relationship that's not toxic, because those moments where he's ok are brief and are usually very one sided or when Pietro or Wanda aren't even around.

I think the fact they are not around reinforces my point that it`s not a toxic relationship, because he`s not using his feelings to manipulate anyone there, he`s just thinking about his children and grandchildren. Also nobody forced Wanda to rescue Magneto from Phoenix scott those are just two of examples I posted. According to you he hsould be around Wanda and Pietro making them feel sorry for him and or forcing them to have a relationship with him so he can abuse them but that`s just false and has been false for years.

[GenericUsername]

Some of it was silver age. Some of it was bronze age. Then nothing happened for the longest time until AD at the end and HoM. He did pretend to be good. That was literally how he tried to get them back on the Brotherhood after they were with the Avengers. After Wanda was shot and the bullet grazed her head, and she lost her powers. That was all his plan to get them by his side.

I'm saying fans are into a lot of gross things, so it doesn't matter to me. It's not gonna convince me to like the relationship.

No he's sorry. Which parents that abuse are usually sorry after. It's not unusual. It's not cut and dry, black and white.

"According to you he hsould be around Wanda and Pietro making them feel sorry for him and or forcing them to have a relationship with him so he can abuse them but that`s just false and has been false for years."

I never said this. I'm saying I'm glad it's retconned because it was a toxic relationship. Period.

[Lucyinthesky]

Some of it was silver age. Some of it was bronze age. Then nothing happened for the longest time until AD at the end and HoM. He did pretend to be good. That was literally how he tried to get them back on the Brotherhood after they were with the Avengers. After Wanda was shot and the bullet grazed her head, and she lost her powers. That was all his plan to get them by his side.

Yes all that was done during the silver age before anyone of them knew they were family and certainly before Wanda tried to make an effort of contanting him at all, which was a miracle on itself, for the birth of the twins and magneto certainly didn`t assist so he could make them brotherhood members.

I'm saying fans are into a lot of gross things, so it doesn't matter to me. It's not gonna convince me to like the relationship.

ok, that`s fair

No he's sorry. Which parents that abuse are usually sorry after. It's not unusual. It's not cut and dry, black and white. "According to you he hsould be around Wanda and Pietro making them feel sorry for him and or forcing them to have a relationship with him so he can abuse them but that`s just false and has been false for years." I never said this. I'm saying I'm glad it's retconned because it was a toxic relationship. Period.

Well I don`t think it was toxic, I think it was complicated not toxic and I can be ok either way, with them being related or not related at all.

[GenericUsername]

Yes all that was done during the silver age before anyone of them knew they were family and certainly before Wanda tried to make an effort of contanting him at all, which was a miracle on itself, for the birth of the twins and magneto certainly didn`t assist so he could make them brotherhood members.

I don't know what this says, but all of it wasn't silver age. The abuse was silver age. He never abused them after. But he did manipulated them at times after they left for the Avengers and then came the killing of Pietro in HoM. I don't include stuff from Rex or whatever because I'm not sure that's even canon (I'm pretty sure it is not).

[Lucyinthesky]

I don't know what this says, but all of it wasn't silver age. The abuse was silver age. He never abused them after. But he did manipulated them at times after they left for the Avengers and then came the killing of Pietro in HoM. I don't include stuff from Rex or whatever because I'm not sure that's even canon (I'm pretty sure it is not).

I don`t think he manipulated them after being with the avengers, mostly they had limited interactions or not at all until Pietro, Wanda and Lorna fought him on Genosha but he chose to develop his plan of a mutant homeland over a relationship with them, he was quite clear about it imo, so I don`t see manipulation, more like comic book drama.

In Hom Magneto in a moment of pure rage killed Pietro because he tought about making the HOM world and then Wanda decided to erase the mutant gen from the earth and it`s not an example of how those characters interact under normal circunstances.

Under normal circunstances they are more like this:

[Steel Inquisitor]

"You're ignoring how explosive their relationship has been with each other"

How was she explosive to him? She gave him multiple chances. Again, HoM and CC don't undo anything. Where was the relationship?

I'm saying his moments he "behaved himself" are always the prequel before he's turned again. And are typical in abusive relationships.

I didn't say it was healthy, this is why categorised it under "complicated." She bit his head off after he murdered Quicksilver in HoM, I never stated their relationship was only good moments. Think of Darth Vader's relationship with Luke, they've been abusive with each other and the father is an incredibly evil man but eventually the two did share tender moments and care about each other. Magneto is like this with all his children. Which I'm not disagreeing with, what I am saying is that we should acknowledge the full context not ignore whenever the evil father does something reasonable instead of being a two dimensional caricature. Magneto has depth, it's why he's become too popular as a character.

You need to reread House of M and Children's Crusade, you're refusing to acknowledge that every scene isn't Magneto being a Bad Guy to Wanda. Don't let your feelings cloud you judgement over the facts in those stories.

[GenericUsername]

I don`t think he manipulated them after being with the avengers, mostly they had limited interactions or not at all until Pietro, Wanda and Lorna fought him on Genosha but he chose to develop his plan of a mutant homeland over a relationship with them, he was quite clear about it imo, so I don`t see manipulation, more like comic book drama.

In Hom Magneto in a moment of pure rage killed Pietro because he tought about making the HOM world and then Wanda decided to erase the mutant gen from the earth and it`s not an example of how those characters interact under normal circunstances.

Under normal circunstances they are more like this:

When Wanda lost her powers, and he used that opportunity to try and get her and Pietro by his side was after she was with the Avengers. When Wanda was manipulated by Immortus and then Mags used that opportunity to get her by his side again, that was after they were with the Avengers>

There wasn't any excuse for him killing his own son. Be pissed off at him sure, but killing him is not ok.

[GenericUsername]

I didn't say it was healthy, this is why categorised it under "complicated." She bit his head off after he murdered Quicksilver in HoM, I never stated their relationship was only good moments. Think of Darth Vader's relationship with Luke, they've been abusive with each other and the father is an incredibly evil man but eventually the two did share tender moments and care about each other. Magneto is like this with all his children. Which I'm not disagreeing with, what I am saying is that we should acknowledge the full context not ignore whenever the evil father does something reasonable instead of being a two dimensional caricature. Magneto has depth, it's why he's become too popular as a character.

You need to reread House of M and Children's Crusade, you're refusing to acknowledge that every scene isn't Magneto being a Bad Guy to Wanda. Don't let your feelings cloud you judgement over the facts in those stories.

I know what's in Children's Crusade. I'm saying it's not enough to undo the years of ok I'm good now, just kidding I'm bad again! Now I just expect it from him. You read to me the part in AXIS and her solo where Wanda is also relieved he's not her dad.

[Lucyinthesky]

When Wanda lost her powers, and he used that opportunity to try and get her and Pietro by his side was after she was with the Avengers. When Wanda was manipulated by Immortus and then Mags used that opportunity to get her by his side again, that was after they were with the Avengers

When Wanda lost her powers was that time when toad took his revenge on Magneto during the silver age didn`t he? that happened before they knew they were related and the situation with inmortous was him taking possesion of Wanda using Magneto to wake her up from her catatonic state after losing her children in Darker than Scarlet isn`t it?. At most he keep her from sexualy abusing and maybe killing wonder-man and other avengers.

There wasn't any excuse for him killing his own son. Be pissed off at him sure, but killing him is not ok.

Agreed that`s mostly why I don`t consider abuse that time Pietro punched magneto bloody during Son of M right after HoM or when he tried to stab and kill Magneto with a wooden stake on Children`s Crusade, they have quite a violent relationship but as I posted above they also have some quiet times when they can talk things in a civilized manner.