Children of Magento yes or no ?

[GenericUsername]

When Wanda lost her powers was that time when toad took his revenger on Magneto didn`t he? that happened before they knew they were related and the situation with inmortous was him taking possesion of Wanda using Magneto to wake her up from her catatonic state after losing her children in Darker than Scarlet isn`t it?. At most he keep her from sexualy abusing and maybe killing wonder-man and other avengers.



Agreed

So was the Brotherhood stuff, and the creepy make Wanda dance stuff that became a meme. But it really doesn't matter. Knowing or not knowing doesn't make it acceptable and still makes it a red flag and character flaw. Him being their father just made it more creepy later.

In the panels of that situation, it was completely to get Wanda and Pietro back in the Brotherhood and not to get her out of a catatonic state. Nor save Wonderman. That incidentally happening doesn't give him the credit, because that was clearly not his intention.

[Lucyinthesky]

So was the Brotherhood stuff, and the creepy make Wanda dance stuff that became a meme. But it really doesn't matter. Knowing or not knowing doesn't make it acceptable and still makes it a red flag and character flaw. Him being their father just made it more creepy later.In the panels of that situation, it was completely to get Wanda and Pietro back in the Brotherhood and not to get her out of a catatonic state. Nor save Wonderman. That incidentally happening doesn't give him the credit, because that was clearly not his intention.

Keep Wanda from doing something she would regret later was certainly his intention it still happened

[GenericUsername]

Keep Wanda from doing something she would regret later was certainly his intention it still happened

And show the panel where he wanted them to serve at his side. Because that was his real intention lol. How else would he woo them?

[Lucyinthesky]

And show the panel where he wanted them to serve at his side. Because that was his real intention lol. How else would he woo them?

I don`t see much wooing going on there, just wanda being unnaturally violent, Pietro joining them to bring her and magneto back to earth Magneto kind of convinced they were going to be a family again, who knows why, and then he went away for not particular reason except that he had to be out of the way to give space to inmortous.

Edit: This was also during the Act of Vengance crossover and even there he didn`t did anything particulary extreme, beyond doing a half-hearted effort to fight Spider-man and taking revenger of red skull. It was the days where marvel wanted to get him be a villain again but he wasn`t formally one until mutant genesis.

[GenericUsername]

I don`t see much wooing going there, just wanda being unnaturally violent, Pietro joining to bring her and magneto back to earth Magneto kind of convinced they were going to be a family again, who knows why, and then he went away for not particular reason except that he had to be out of the way to give space to inmortous.

The whole purpose of it was to get them back at his side. In the Brotherhood. That's how manipulation works. What do you think manipulation is? Loki uses the same tactics. People think oh Loki is good. Then Loki becomes bad again, then everyone is shocked. Quite amusing. Someone manipulative isn't gonna show you their real intentions. They aren't gonna be that successful that way.

[Lucyinthesky]

That`s the thing, Pietro joined them knowing they were out of control and he was trying to stop them, Magneto knew he was doing this but waited to see what was Pietro`s plan, Magneto didn`t have to convince Wanda of anything because at that point she was more violent than him and that worried him, and he himself seemed to believe that was the best moment to work as a family for mutants which makes me think he was off his rocker or badly writen or both.

What Loki does is way different, he talks people into trusting or distrusting him until they do what he wants them to do by planting ideas in their head or manipulating the events, I don`t see Magneto planting ideas on Wanda or manipulating events around them or forcing Pietro to join them, or making them feel like they have a debt with him like he did during the brotherhood days.

[Steel Inquisitor]

I know what's in Children's Crusade. I'm saying it's not enough to undo the years of ok I'm good now, just kidding I'm bad again! Now I just expect it from him. You read to me the part in AXIS and her solo where Wanda is also relieved he's not her dad.

Except you're not acknowledging the full context of what he did it that story. I never said it did, there's more here then simply black and white. Magneto would be a very one note character without any depth to him, depth you're ignoring based on feelings. Lucy has shown Magneto doing nice things to Wanda in this thread but you're ignoring them since they question your narrative. You didn't even respond to my comparison with Luke and Darth Vader. People are far more complicated than you think.

[GenericUsername]

That`s the thing, Pietro joined them knowing they were out of control and he was trying to stop them, Magneto knew he was doing this but waited to see what was Pietro`s plan, Magneto didn`t have to convince Wanda of anything because at that point she was more violent than him and that worried him, and he himself seemed to believe that was the best moment to work as a family for mutants which makes me think he was off his rocker or badly writen or both.

What Loki does is way different, he talks people into trusting or distrusting him until they do what he wants them to do by planting ideas in their head or manipulating the events, I don`t see Magneto planting ideas on Wanda or manipulating events around them or forcing Pietro to join them, or making them feel like they have a debt with him like he did during the brotherhood days.

Wanda was still not even herself at that point and wouldn't be herself after she recovers from all of this. The Immortus stuff and the breakdown from losing Vision and her kids are full in affect. Pietro after a time wanted to re-unite with Mags more than Wanda. To where Wanda went completely in the opposite direction and never wanted to see him again.

Loki is just more suave about stuff. Mags was more hidden during the bronze age. He'd stop doing this after that. He just wasn't there though, because stories surrounding Wanda were more about other things. There's one moment in Busiek's Avengers where Pietro talks to her about forgiving Mags, but she's not having it.

[GenericUsername]

Except you're not acknowledging the full context of what he did it that story. I never said it did, there's more here then simply black and white. Magneto would be a very one note character without any depth to him, depth you're ignoring based on feelings. Lucy has shown Magneto doing nice things to Wanda in this thread but you're ignoring them since they question your narrative. You didn't even respond to my comparison with Luke and Darth Vader. People are far more complicated than you think.

I'm not asking for Mags to be one note. I'm just accepting that he moves back and forth at times. I just don't want his chaotic existence in Wanda's life. Because she has enough of her own.

Also not really seeing why the Darth Vader/Luke thing needed addressed. You made a statement. That relates to what you like about it. It doesn't need my input. Keep your opinion. I have mine.

Also, not ignoring Lucy at all. We were discussing it. Those are panels that only show part of what he was doing. And just like you guys are showing all his "nice things" I'm discussing the messed up things. Because there's a full picture there. Not just the good parts.

[Steel Inquisitor]

I'm not asking for Mags to be one note. I'm just accepting that he moves back and forth at times. I just don't want his chaotic existence in Wanda's life. Because she has enough of her own.

Yes, you are. Whenever we bring up him showing any depth he's shown in canon it gets rejected.

Also not really seeing why the Darth Vader/Luke thing needed addressed. You made a statement. That relates to what you like about it. It doesn't need my input. Keep your opinion. I have mine.

I made an argument, which you're not bothering to engage in. I made my case, but you have no interest in defending yours. I'm regretting engaging with you with this, you want validation not an actual conversation between Wanda fans. Good day.

[GenericUsername]

Yes, you are. Whenever we bring up him showing any depth he's shown in canon it gets rejected.



I made an argument, which you're not bothering to engage in. I made my case, but you have no interest in defending yours. I'm regretting engaging with you with this, you want validation not an actual conversation between Wanda fans. Good day.

I don't reject it at all. I just say it didn't make up for years of abuse and manipulation. Because it didn't. His daughter never forgave him. And she is happy he's not her dad. Which is true.

Lol, I'm sorry you wanted to discuss the Star Wars parallel and I didn't acknowledge it. I didn't think it needed it.

[Lucyinthesky]

Wanda was still not even herself at that point and wouldn't be herself after she recovers from all of this. The Immortus stuff and the breakdown from losing Vision and her kids are full in affect. Pietro after a time wanted to re-unite with Mags more than Wanda. To where Wanda went completely in the opposite direction and never wanted to see him again.

I know and I am not saying Wanda was wrong in feeling that way but Pietro didn`t want to re-join him, he wanted to keep safe the people of Genosha from him and do some good for the human-mutant population that lived on Genosha, Magneto knew this but thought that was better than nothing so they stayed in an uneasy alliance until it came to a head in Dark Seduction. In a way Pietro and Magneto relationship has been more explored than the one he had with Wanda but this doesn`t mean that he doesn`t have one with her and lorna too.

Loki is just more suave about stuff. Mags was more hidden during the bronze age. He'd stop doing this after that. He just wasn't there though, because stories surrounding Wanda were more about other things. There's one moment in Busiek's Avengers where Pietro talks to her about forgiving Mags, but she's not having it.

Pietro didn`t say she had to forgive him, he just wanted her to understand he was not leaving her, he still cared for her and would be there if she needed him but that he didn`t have to be around her and protect her all the time. I wish modern writers remembered more of this Pietro and stopped using him as if he didn`t change from his characterization during the silver age era, Pietro has always respected Wanda`s wishes and pov I don`t see why modern writers think this is not the case.

Also because Pietro saw the human-mutant issue from a closer perspective on X-Factor he could get some of magneto`s pov while not justifying him or telling Wanda she had to forgive him, he never did that imo.

[GenericUsername]

I know and I am not saying Wanda was wrong in feeling that way but Pietro didn`t want to re-join him, he wanted to keep safe the people of Genosha from him and do some good for the human-mutant population that lived on Genosha, Magneto knew this but thought that was better than nothing so they stayed in an uneasy alliance until it came to a head in Dark Seduction. In a way Pietro and Magneto relationship has been more explored than the one he had with Wanda but this doesn`t mean that he doesn`t have one with her and lorna too.



Pietro didn`t say she had to forgive him, he just wanted her to understand he was not leaving her, he still cared for her and would be there if she needed her but that he didn`t have to be around her and protect her all the time. I wish modern writers remembered more of this Pietro and stopped using him as if he didn`t change from his characterization during the silver age era, Pietro has always respected Wanda`s wishes and pov I don`t see him modern writers think this is not the case.

Also because Pietro saw the human-mutant issue from a closer perspective he could get some of magneto`s pov while not justifying him or telling Wanda she had to forgive him, he never did that imo.

Pietro has had more time to explore that side, but he spent way more time on the x-side. I think he suffers more from the not a mutant anymore retcon. Because his best characterizations were under PAD's pen and not with the Avengers. So he's the opposite of Wanda.

No I'm not saying he told her that she had to forgive him. He was trying to convince her. He at that time wanted to mend fences.

I don't really agree that Pietro always respected Wanda's wishes. But that writing was also terrible though. That was his years of hating Vision and being discriminate against him. Which was really dumb in the context of everything in comics. And how sci-fi related things get. It's pretty normal in that world.

[Lucyinthesky]

Pietro has had more time to explore that side, but he spent way more time on the x-side. I think he suffers more from the not a mutant anymore retcon. Because his best characterizations were under PAD's pen and not with the Avengers. So he's the opposite of Wanda.

Agreed even after Onslaught Pietro stayed for a while on the house of Jean and Scott, he was close to the X-men until HoM and the 2000`s. Still even after that he got a place with Lorna on All New X-factor and even Luna interacted with her aunt. This family links are the ones some fans miss and are the reason why I think it would do Pietro well to interact with Magneto or the X-men post Axis retcon, the ankward moments would be more than enough for me

No I'm not saying he told her that she had to forgive him. He was trying to convince her. He at that time wanted to mend fences.

I think the problem was the Pietro recognized Magneto as their father while Wanda said Django was her father, it was a difference in feelings and Pietro knew there was no way to mend fences between Wanda and Magneto at the time. It`s sad how writers have ruined this nuance that existed between Pietro and Magneto but some still is there yet.

I don't really agree that Pietro always respected Wanda's wishes. But that writing was also terrible though. That was his years of hating Vision and being discriminate against him. Which was really dumb in the context of everything in comics. And how sci-fi related things get. It's pretty normal in that world.

Agreed, that chracterizarion pretty much ruined Pietro`s future on the Avengers and even on the movies one of the reason why Whedon chose to kill him off was because he remembered him this way and that if Wanda was going to have a relationship with Vision Pietro had to be taken out of the scene. I hope future Avengers writers take a little from PAD`s take on him to write Pietro in a more fair manner.

[GenericUsername]

Agreed even after Onslaught Pietro stayed for a while on the house of Jean and Scott, he was close to the X-men until HoM and the 2000`s. Still even after that he got a place with Lorna on All New X-factor and even Luna interacted with her aunt. This family links are the ones some fans miss and are the reason why I think it would do Pietro well to interact with Magneto or the X-men post Axis retcon, the ankward moments would be more than enough for me





I think the problem was the Pietro recognized Magneto as their father while Wanda said Django was her father, it was a difference in feelings and Pietro knew there was no way to mend fences between Wanda and Magneto at the time. It`s sad how writers have ruined this nuance that existed between Pietro and Magneto but some still is there yet.



Agreed, that chracterizarion pretty much ruined Pietro`s future on the Avengers and even on the movies one of the reason why Whedon chose to kill him off was because he remembered him this way and that if Wanda was going to have a relationship with Vision Pietro had to be taken out of the scene. I hope future Avengers writers take a little from PAD`s take on him to write Pietro in a more fair manner.

I really wish the movies had instead taken the opportunity to improve on the mistake comics made with Pietro in that situation. Because it really doesn't ever make sense. Pietro having been a mutant and knowing what it's like to be discriminated against, going against a synthezoid. When mutants consist of members that don't look human themselves. It just falls so much apart.