Children of Magento yes or no ?

[jmc247]

I guess the irony with Magneto is that he´s allowed to form links or even be a kind of parental figure to others like the New mutant,Scott or Kitty or even Lorna, he used to see her more when they were not related than now when they are related, because he must have a bad relationship with his kids in the eyes of some writers it seems, still I would like to see more of him and Lorna having a good relationship. Hope we see more of this in the EMPYRE tie in on Genosha.

The problem for fans who want Wanda to have a positive relationship with him as you seem to is they so set up her identity as being the heroine who overcame the person who convinced her to join the Brotherhood that writers not too long after the retcon comes down are going to default to that.

For Lorna its a separate issue of developing a framework for their relationship that is easily accessible and understandable to the audience. Wanda has that pretty solidified and on some level its important even though it limits storytelling. I think Hickman may be on a positive track there, though time will tell. Bunn sort of wanted to develop her as his generic hero daughter who has trouble connecting to him other then general father/daughter stuff. For me it didn't work too well as it ignored too much of their history. I think them being able to connect on mutant issues like Genosha you talked about, but not on other matters is the sweet spot.

[GenericUsername]

Which is why I said two fathers, not that Magneto is her only "father."



You're ignoring how explosive their relationship has been with each other, that's why I called it complicated. She was cursing out Magneto for being a bad father and human being in House of M. If anything, this humanises them all. There was no fairy tale ending here. He didn't get that with her half sister, Lorna, either.



I disagree. Discounting their moments in House of M isn't enough to say it didn't exist, it was there to build from. What's wrong is that Marvel rarely acts on it, not that they don't share a connection. Characters relationships can change, and what is this "princess type" nonsense? Lorna is closer than she is to Magneto and the plans in X-Factor are to make her a detective in Krakoa. The only thing I can see where this "princess" thing does from is the Wolverine and X-men cartoon - which altered the setting to make them princesses in Genosha.

And I'm saying Magneto was only a sperm donor until he was wrote out. And now he's gone.

Acting like Wanda contributed to how Mags treated her from the start is gross, don't do that.

HoM IS the story where he murdered Pietro. IT is NOT a positive dad moment that you are trying to paint. This is my problem with Mags being her dad. People cannot accept who he is. That he moves from villain to gray area. You want to paint him in a better picture and make him seem like Dad of the year. But we just aren't seeing what you see. It's bs fanfiction.

Wolverine and X-Men is an alt universe. Not Wanda of 616. Wanda wasn't at all like the cartoons. The cartoons have been my theory of why people push for this relationship. Because they paint a rosy picture. There's no Wanda and Pietro chained to a wall. Being used when they can't fight back to rejoin. It just sticks Wanda in an era of the Brotherhood without the abuse part. Don't say someone doesn't know their character and then bring up stuff from a cartoon of a completely different universe to try and explain why. We are talking about the books here.

[GenericUsername]

"oh there is a conection but witout any canon stories to back it up"
So its a popular concept that is relevant for fluf and shallow knowledge of the books because anyone with minimal knowledge knows the twins and magneto had a papper thin conection born from a retcon?
Maximoffrash is 100 % correct, its a concept that has legs because of popular fan headcanon that is so prevalent people assume its canon.


It's explosive because its bad, its a terrible conection that has never created a single decent story in all those decades, there is no point in reversing it EVER

Exactly. It's just so flimsy. It's one thing to say that they hope that could be their relationship. It's a completely different thing to pretend it ever was.

[GenericUsername]

I'm not interested in what other fans think, this is strictly a conversation between two Wanda fans. Whatever other fans do has no influence to how I came to my opinions on Wanda's relationship with Magneto. Whoever those fans are, I'm not one of them and have never articulated my opinions to echo those opinions so I'm not sure where you got that from. All that you're speaking of is meta commentary, which are subjects that don't have anything to do with my opinions in-universe of the characters.



While this isn't wrong, I'm not speaking about it on the meta level when I categorise their relationship as "complicated." The two have a messy relationship which goes from high highs to low lows and no in-between, that's why its complicated. They don't have a standard family relationship - Magneto is incapable of doing that with any of his children. Pietro and Lorna get their own twisted relationships with him.



I'm not only using House of M, there's also Children's Crusade. Avengers Disassembled is very bad writing. House of M wouldn't have happened had Bendis not read Darker than Scarlet, he didn't just make it up whole cloth he was heavily inspired by Byrne's Scarlet Witch who wanted to redo the Phoenix saga with Wanda.



I became a Wanda fan though Busiek's 90's Avengers run, the only reason I bought up the cartoon is to figure out how you got that "princess" description of Wanda, which remains unexplained. Except Wanda's problems aren't strictly with the X-office, a massive part of how badly she's been hurt has been with storylines in Avengers titles. Wanda had a good run in Uncanny Avengers, all it takes is for her to have someone to protect her in the X-titles, like every character. For too many years she's had nobody, post-House of M.

Disassembled and HoM are bad writing. Both! And none of those three make up for years of Mags treating them like crap. Especially the one where he murderers his own child, lol!

Princess thing was in HoM. And then the recent comic that went into their time during that era.

I don't want anyone to protect her in the X-titles. And she doesn't need that. For many years she had no one because she was out of comics completely. She has people. They are all on the Avengers side or magic side. Including her boyfriend. She doesn't have anyone on the X-side.

[GenericUsername]

I cannot think of a single time besides HoM that mags was "there" for her, and even that example is too sordid in terms of writting qualty to be taken seriously

It's complete fanfiction based on desire. The same with she needs to be on the X-side because she has no one on the A-side. It's a real wtf moment. I don't know if they feel like they stick to their guns and pretend this is how it was that people will just accept that, or what.

[Lucyinthesky]

The problem for fans who want Wanda to have a positive relationship with him as you seem to is they so set up her identity as being the heroine who overcame the person who convinced her to join the Brotherhood that writers not too long after the retcon comes down are going to default to that.

I think this was the case with 90`s Wanda and Magneto but during the 80`s and after HoM and Children`s Crusade that were Avengers events this changed and made more nuanced their relationship in the sense that inside story, during one of Wanda`s darkest hours she could count on him to defend her from the Avengers or the X-men even when he had mainly been part of the X-men and they were his home. During Axis he protected her from Red Skull, he seek to protect Dr Doom from her because if she killed him he knew how it would affect her knowing what she did when she was inverted, of course is normal for Wanda to be wary of this, she was also wary during the 80`s and still she invited him to her house for a party and during the birth of Tommy and Billy and she also saved him from Phoenix Scott, imo all this has changed and made more nuanced and complicated their relationship than it was during the 90`s.

For Lorna its a separate issue of developing a framework for their relationship that is easily accessible and understandable to the audience. Wanda has that pretty solidified and on some level its important even though it limits storytelling.I think Hickman may be on a positive track there, though time will tell. Bunn sort of wanted to develop her as his generic hero daughter who has trouble connecting to him other then general father/daughter stuff. For me it didn't work too well as it ignored too much of their history. I think them being able to connect on mutant issues like Genosha you talked about, but not on other matters is the sweet spot.

I agree with you , Genosha was important for Lorna too and it makes sense for them both to mourn it`s destruction hope we see some of this when they get back ther on the EMPYRE tien in. I just used those images from Bunn`s run because I enjoy seeing them having tea together , it was a nice quiet scene between them that added to their relationship imo.

[Ferro]

Exactly. It's just so flimsy. It's one thing to say that they hope that could be their relationship. It's a completely different thing to pretend it ever was.

It's so anoying how popular it is with only a few challenging it, especially on twitter where "omg why isnt wanda in krakoa, magnet fam Come back plss" are so common it drives me insane.
a few issues of x-factor are not enough to make it interesting , ITS NOT

[GenericUsername]

I think this was the case with 90`s Wanda and Magneto but during the 80`s and after HoM and Children`s Crusade that were Avengers events this changed and made more nuanced their relationship in the sense that inside story, during one of Wanda`s darkest hours she could count on him to defend her from the Avengers or the X-men even when he had mainly been part of the X-men and they were his home. During Axis he protected her from Red Skull, he seek to protect Dr Doom from her because if she killed him he knew how it would affect her knowing what she did when she was inverted, of course is normal for Wanda to be wary of this, she was also wary during the 80`s and still she invited him to her house for a party and during the birth of Tommy and Billy and she also saved him from Phoenix Scott, imo all this has changed and made more nuanced and complicated their relationship than it was during the 90`s.









I agree with you , Genosha was important for Lorna too and it makes sense for them both to mourn it`s destruction hope we see some of this when they get back ther on the EMPYRE tien in. I just used those images from Bunn`s run because I enjoy seeing them having tea together , it was a nice quiet scene between them that added to their relationship imo.

These examples of Mags showing a softer side are an exception for him and not a rule. People need to understand that even abusive parents are kind to their kids at times. Before and after the beatings. But people are trying to whitewash what Mags did based on a few comics. When we all know they'll keep him like this for a short while, then have a story where he's back to villainy again. It always happens. So it's very narrow-sighted. He is what he is. He's not completely evil, not completely good. And hasn't been a great dad. That's something even he admits.

[GenericUsername]

It's so anoying how popular it is with only a few challenging it, especially on twitter where "omg why isnt wanda in krakoa, magnet fam Come back plss" are so common it drives me insane.
a few issues of x-factor are not enough to make it interesting , ITS NOT

I feel the same way because I view it from an overall perspective. And even though I love Wanda, I know she's not been there really for mutants. Wasn't a part of the cause. That was more-so Pietro. Her thing was with the Avengers. She was a mutant as a factual thing. And while she did receive some hate for being a mutant, it didn't dominate her existence. She didn't have anyone on the X-side that she was close to, other than when her brother was there. This is just the way it was. Leading all the way up to the retcon of the retcon. I don't feel that liking characters means I have to imagine something that just isn't there.

Do I wish she had done more? Yes, especially after M-day. Did that happen? No. Not in my control either. Same with her relationship to Mags. For years I wanted the family dynamic. It never happened. It wouldn't happen now, even if they retconned it back. Because they handle these two sides almost like they exist in their own universe. There's nothing for Wanda there. No redemption, no stories, no friends, no family. She's better off on the magic and Avengers side of things.

[Lucyinthesky]

These examples of Mags showing a softer side are an exception for him and not a rule. People need to understand that even abusive parents are kind to their kids at times. Before and after the beatings. But people are trying to whitewash what Mags did based on a few comics. When we all know they'll keep him like this for a short while, then have a story where he's back to villainy again. It always happens. So it's very narrow-sighted. He is what he is. He's not completely evil, not completely good. And hasn't been a great dad. That's something even he admits.

he was there for her on the 80`s and yes it ended when marvel wanted to make him a villain again, still, those images I posted were made in events from the avengers office over a space of 10 years in real life so if marvel really wanted to develop their relationship like you said they would have done so since those events but that`s just not the case. I respect yout oppinion but I don`t share it as the relationship has indeed changed over time and that`s a fact.

[GenericUsername]

he was there for her on the 80`s and yes it ended when marvel wanted to make him a villain again, still, those images I posted were made in events from the avengers office over a space of 10 years in real life so if marvel really wanted to develop their relationship like you said they would have done so since those events but that`s just not the case. I respect yout oppinion but I don`t share it as the relationship has indeed changed over time and that`s a fact.

He wasn't there though. He came in, revealed he was their father and spent Thanksgiving there for a minute before a fight broke out between he and Pietro. It was very volatile, lol. And in the 80s was the taking advantage of Wanda after Immortus messed with her life thing. It didn't change. It went back and forth. And very few times in Wanda's story. A very significant amount of her life was spent without him around.

[Lucyinthesky]

Those are comics mind you, I don`t need Peter visiting his aunt on every issue to know he cares about her or Jean talking about her dead family to know she cared about them or Cyclops talking with his father on every issue to know they are family by the same token and considering they are from different offices the mere fact she called him to tell him she was pregnant, that he came to visit her at thanksgiving and that he was there to help them during the birth of the twins, or the fact he had a picture or her and the twins on his office when he was headmaster of the new mutants and even now after HOM he holds onto photos of her and pietro when he was living on Utopia, is just comics way of showing they are close but that each one of them have their own stuff going on in their life and this doesn`t mean he would not go to help her if he knew she needed help and he also respects her being wary of or hating him.

Just as Wanda wasn`t there for her twins when they grew up but still can have a relationship with them, it`s the same case with Magneto and the twins, it`s even easier imo given they have a little more shared stories between them than Wanda and her twins have.

[GenericUsername]

I'm not talking about every comic, but the good outweighing the bad. You can't cherry pick to make an abusive parent non-abusive. It just doesn't work. May =/= Mags. Ever. That's just a weird and very off comparison. She also never chained Pete to a wall, manipulated him or killed him. He didn't desperately seek out help from the F4 to get away from her. She didn't want him to murder the X-Men.

Those twins aren't Wanda's. They were born to other people. They got soul transplants of Wanda's kids. But Wanda also didn't chain them to a wall, manipulate them, kill them or try to make them kill others.

Stop trying to whitewash who Mags has been.

[Lucyinthesky]

Yes, that happened too, that`s why I agree that it makes sense for Wanda to be wary of or hate him, that`s something even the character knows very well and why she feels that way about him but I disagree with you when you say that`s ALL THEIR RELATIONSHIP has been when that`s pretty much false in canon. It`s not whitewashing when I am just showing marvel own work of their relationship, it would be whitewash if I made a fan art of them being a family but I don`t really need to, because their relationship is more complicated than what you want to make of it.

[GenericUsername]

Yes, that happened too, that`s why I agree that it makes sense for Wanda to be wary of or hate him, that`s something even the character knows very well and why she feels that way about him but I disagree with you when you say that`s ALL THEIR RELATIONSHIP has been when that`s pretty much false in canon. It`s not whitewashing when I am just showing marvel own work of their relationship, it would be whitewash if I made a fan art of them being a family but I don`t really need to, because their relationship is more complicated than what you want to make of it.

Mags being sorry or showing he cares in brief, random points doesn't make for a significant father/daughter dynamic. Because it's typical for abusive parents to do that. Sometimes it's to keep their children by their side, so they can control them. Sometimes it's because while they are sorry, they can't control their temper.

That is all their relationship has been. The crazy murderous Mags that abused them that they'd try to get away from, then them want to give him a chance, then he has another heel turn towards villainy.

There hasn't been consistent great moments between them just a back and forth. It's toxic. It's not good. And romanticizing it by cherry picking when he showed he cared does not fix it. Because again, that is a big part of abusive relationships.