Children of Magneto, yes or no ?

[Michael Watkins]

If anything Magneto holds Wanda and Pietro back, how has being related to him actually benefitted these two?

ROFLMAO!! they owe everything to Magneto. they've been milking that connection for decades. always whining about how a man who didn't meet them until they were in their late teens treated them. who saved them from the angry mob? who trained them to survive (see: Avengers Academy)? who retrieved Wanda after she blew up Avengers mansion and betrayed her friends?

And honestly they were never a family to begin with he never raised them and has abused them multiple times Wanda and Pietro deserve more than an abusive father who's connection to them has given them nothing good both in and out of universe.

Pietro deserves? Pietro who was described by his sister as a sociopath? Pietro who had to be telepathically cured of his bigotry towards the Vision? Pietro who was ashamed of having a human daughter? Pietro who exposed his own daughter to terrigen mists; turning her into a drug addict (talk about abusive)? Pietro who used Wanda to create the House of M and sat idly by while all of the worlds "heroes" took it out on his dad?

[Michael Watkins]

They’ve made a huge point to reiterate and emphasize that Wanda was mentally ill and not in her right mind both in the HoM story itself and subsequent stories after. The actual story itself does not support the claim that what she did was a calculated move. It was an emotional lash out at her father without her thinking about the consequences.

no. no they didn't. they showed us that Wanda collaborated with Doom to get her kids back. she tampered with dark magic with both eyes open. and everyone but her paid for it. she did lash out at her father. that doesn't make her insane. it was a calculated move to hurt him. it was literally the cruelest thing that she could do to him. mutantkind's ascendancy and survival is what mattered to him most. so she took it away. and she had the presence of mind to resurrect and depower her brother; who was equally culpable for the events of House of M. her defenders want to pretend that she was standing on a street corner muttering to herself instead of hiding out in comfort. they found her in the planning stages of her wedding to Doctor Doom; under the protection of Latveria. all of this was calculated.

[Michael Watkins]

He is a mutant . He is has an X-gene so he is a mutant.

he stole an x-gene from Jacob Gavin jr (and possibly other mutants). that puts him on the same level as the Reavers who skinned Domino. Apocalypse didn't make him a mutant any more than he did Ahab or Moses Magnum.

[hulkling]

1. Magneto abused them took them when they were barely kids( they were supposed to be 15 or 16 when found them) and used brutal tactics in them like send asassins while they were sleeping to “train them” . It’s a brutal tactic to induce fear and paranoia.

2. The old white man rage of Magneto is not a justification to kill Pietro in cold blood, while Wanda was possess by an energy that represented all life in universe. I think her situation was a bit more messed that his.

3. She literally lose her memories after House of M, Doom was the one who found her.

4. It doesn’t matter if the X-Gene was originally from Sinister or not. He has an X-gene in every cell of his body ergo he is a mutant. Humans share almost all our genes except a little fraction. By that definition them X-23 wouldn’t be a mutant because she just has the X-gene of Logan. Or everyone that has the exact same powers that their parents wouldn’t be mutants because they just have the same X-gene.

[Michael Watkins]

1. Magneto abused them took them when they were barely kids( they were supposed to be 15 or 16 when found them) and used brutal tactics in them like send asassins while they were sleeping to “train them” . It’s a brutal tactic to induce fear and paranoia.

Pietro spoke highly of the method. and he's superhumanly fast. they could have left whenever they pleased. he didn't "take" them. he saved their lives. for contrast, Pietro took Luna and made her a drug addict.

2. The old white man rage of Magneto is not a justification to kill Pietro in cold blood, while Wanda was possess by an energy that represented all life in universe. I think her situation was a bit more messed that his.

i'll ignore the out-of-nowhere racism. and i'll point out that what Magneto did was exactly what the Avengers and X-men were going to do to him because they mistakenly believe that he used Wanda to create a paradise for mutants. and, again, we are talking about Pietro; who murdered one of the Inhumans to steal their terrigen crystals so he could make his daughter a drug addict and callously risk the lives of the depowered mutants he offered the terrigen to. Magneto's rage was entirely justified. what Pietro had done was monstrous. his rage stemmed from the fact that someone had taken away his free will. he's had that nightmarish experience before.

3. She literally lose her memories after House of M, Doom was the one who found her.

she wiped away the memories so she wouldn't have to deal with the consequences of her actions. and i want you to really contemplate the odds of Doom being the one to find her for a second.

[Beaubier]

no. no they didn't. they showed us that Wanda collaborated with Doom to get her kids back. she tampered with dark magic with both eyes open. and everyone but her paid for it. she did lash out at her father. that doesn't make her insane. it was a calculated move to hurt him. it was literally the cruelest thing that she could do to him. mutantkind's ascendancy and survival is what mattered to him most. so she took it away. and she had the presence of mind to resurrect and depower her brother; who was equally culpable for the events of House of M. her defenders want to pretend that she was standing on a street corner muttering to herself instead of hiding out in comfort. they found her in the planning stages of her wedding to Doctor Doom; under the protection of Latveria. all of this was calculated.

Honestly, f you don’t think she was insane during that period, and if you think she willingly went off with Doom without a care in the world, I have to question how much you paid attention to Disassembled, HOM, or Children’s Crusade, or what the own character and other characters have said in print about her state of mind during those events. She went mad With the grief of her children, then she was triggered even further by seeing her father kill her brother. You also left out she had AMNESIA in Latveria. Nowhere in the comics does it say she was sane and making calculated moves. Her using her powers in a fit of insanity to hurt her father and brother the worst way she could was not her in a sane moment.

[Michael Watkins]

Honestly, f you don’t think she was insane during that period, and if you think she willingly went off with Doom without a care in the world, I have to question how much you paid attention to Disassembled, HOM, or Children’s Crusade, or what the own character and other characters have said in print about her state of mind during those events. She went mad With the grief of her children, then she was triggered even further by seeing her father kill her brother. You also left out she had AMNESIA in Latveria. Nowhere in the comics does it say she was sane and making calculated moves. Her using her powers in a fit of insanity to hurt her father and brother the worst way she could was not her in a sane moment.

grief over what children? Master Pandemonium's hands? what broke her amnesia? why hasn't Wanda been institutionalized?

[Skullkid]

Honestly, I'm not too inclined to talk anyone who's going to say Magneto's relationship with the twins has been anything but largely abusive on his part.
Because that's just denial of facts

[Michael Watkins]

yeah, that breaks my heart. i think i'm going to go sulk while eating a sandwich over it.

[Witchfan]

Pietro would find it unacceptable that he was welcome in the mutant community and Wanda is not. He would insist that Wanda be included, or he wouldn't want to be a part of it.

[king of hybrids]

How the hell is Luna a drug addict?

[Zelena]

How the hell is Luna a drug addict?

Was… she needed the Terrigen Mists.

[Beaubier]

grief over what children? Master Pandemonium's hands? what broke her amnesia? why hasn't Wanda been institutionalized?

If these are legit questions, maybe you should reread the comics. It’s all there.

[teapartyofthedead]

From these latest batch of posts, I think we can all agree that there is a great deal of unresolved conflict between Max and the twins, which the fans see and respond to. It makes sense: they met him years after he’d not only given up on humanity and basic happiness, but had become very cruel towards his subordinates (Mastermind deserved it and more, but did Toad at that time deserve to wear a belt that let Magneto punished him whenever he felt like it? Astra claims he was abusive, but it sounds more like she tried to hit him up and got shut down, felt humiliated and left). And while it was clear he favored them and considered them essential to his plans, that didn’t stop him from being manipulative and callous to get them to stay at his side. Holding their rescue above their heads to keep them because they feel they’re obligation to discharge that obligation, is exploitation (just like Charles would do to Scott, and Jack Diamond before him). Yes, sending hitmen to attack them in their sleep (but not telling the twins the attackers were under orders never to actually hurt them) is abusive even if Pietro doesn’t think so. As I recall, he was trying to justify doing much the same to the Avengers Academy kids, and Tigra had to point out that was not okay then and now. The twins are supposed to be the same age as the 05, so I’m guessing they were around 12-14, even if in the original issues they all seem more like 17-19. In any case, they were still children that were being exploited and abused. Would Max have treated them like that if he knew the twins were his children? Well, despite what Ultimates says, I don’t believe so. He might still have been harsh, but not to the point it got to. What then of his reaction to HoM? If it was outrage at being mind controlled, that’s pretty rich of him considering how he made an underage Wanda dance for his entertainment while mind controlling her. If it’s because he didn’t like that this was the one time where he didn’t like it being done in his name, that’s fair. Again, they could have made it so they were just simple people living simple lives, but no they had to be kings and queens of the world. Did it warrant Max murdering Pietro? At that point, the damage was mainly psychological as well as dragging the Avengers and X-Men into their family drama. Murder wasn’t called for. I can only speculate this was anger born of years of hurt and frustration at Pietro arguing and fighting him instead of accepting his offer of ruling the world as father and son. And then turns around and makes House of M. The straw that broke the camel’s back, perhaps.

That being said, it doesn’t change that Wanda is responsible for Avengers Disassembled, and No More Mutants, and shares the blame for House of M with Pietro. Just like being a Holocaust survivor and frequent target for prejudice doesn’t change the faults of his behaviors toward the twins. It explains why, but doesn’t make them blameless. Wanda knowingly used black magic to revive children that she was only guessing were real at the time, because no one knew Wiccan and Speed were real all along after all and just retro incarnated, as so happens often in comics. She willingly went to Doom for help in the matter, and even knowing the possible consequences, still went forward. Under the influence she killed her fellow Avengers, like Vision and Hawkeye. Still under the influence of this Life Force which no one but her and Doom knew about, she agrees with Quicksilver’s plans to keep everyone in their fondest dreams so they can’t kill her, and she creates House of M. Not a reality where everyone gets along and Max and family live in the south of France, but specifically one where mutants have come into their inheritance and Max and Pietro rule while Wanda pretends she’s baseline human and pick up where she left off: playing with her imaginary children in her room, without the world coming into it. That was wish fulfillment on their part, and it’s pretty damming. After it comes crashing down on their heads, she lashes out at mutantdom to get back at Magneto and her brother, thus causing the deaths of thousands, which is an act of genocide. Does being under the influence of black magic, which she took under her own volition, make her in any less culpable?

The closest real world analogy we have is someone binge drinking after the loss of their children, and still drunk, getting into a car and causing a major roadway collision. Under American law, she would still be held accountable, and would be lucky is she got only a charge of manslaughter. At the very least, as a peace keeping officer, she would never again have a place in law enforcement, and would have to look into private security. And of course, this isn’t to scale. It wasn’t a few buses filled with orphans, it was an entire race that was attacked. It’s a heinous crime. It makes sense Wanda fans refuse to acknowledge its legitimacy as canon, or place the blame anywhere else. House of M should serve as a warning in the industry as how poor long-term planning and inter-office rivalries can really fuck stories and characters up for decades. Out of universe, we know that Marvel editorship was looking to get ride of the classic Avengers and trim the X-cast, and poor Wanda was the one they chose to do all that and more. In universe, it looks like Wanda got away with genocide by hiding in Europe and then on the Avengers Mansion, all while mutantdom burned.

Pietro is given less of a hard time because he had follow up, in Son of M and through the recent X-Factor. He fell hard, unable to cope with the loss of everything and everyone he loved. He day drinks in his underwear in a flop house. He tries to kill himself after Spider-Man tells him off for his part in HoM, and is then told the one chance to regain them and restore his race, and thus redeem himself, are denied by his in-laws. Does this excuse his act of kidnapping his underage daughter, subjecting her to an element he was warned could have disastrous side effects on her health? No. Not at all. Not even a little. Crystal did the right thing in annulling their marriage for that. And when Pietro lied about the whole thing by claiming a Skrull did it in front of Luna, who literally knows he’s lying? He deserved to lose her respect, too. Magneto knows, and calls him out on it when he visits Avengers Academy. Hell, one of his students worked it out, and forced him to give her extracurricular lessons.

So why do x-fans want him back partying it up with the other Krakoans while forming mobs to hunt down Wanda? Because he got called out on it by the people he loves. Because he was a villain and the narrative treated him that way for years, before moving him back to anti-hero. Because he confessed to all that and more at a live television conference that his victims showed up at in X-Factor. Because you got to see him fall, get back up, fall again, crawl, before pulling himself up again. Only when he has to own up to his actions and humble himself before a press conference does Luna forgive him, and starts to be seen as a hero again. Somewhat.

Wanda didn’t get that. She was thrown in limbo for about five years, in which no one saw her or her point of view. They did see the fallout and consequences, and see beloved characters suffer for it. You don’t know anymore than that until 2010, nine years ago. Children’s Crusade, and that’s it. She essentially goes from the rubble of Genosha, CC, and then she’s automatically forgiven and back to being an Avenger. Vision being upset with her is shown to be wrong as you see Tony calling him harsh. After she killed him. She didn’t (or wasn’t allowed to) atone by having to face her accusers and victims, or make restitutions. Worse, AvX saw her side against the X-Men. After that, Uncanny Avengers saw her being rude and haughty with Rogue, even stating she didn’t see a reason for mutants to continue as a race, they didn’t have a culture, and that the X-Men have a martyr complex. Then she wasn’t even Magneto’s mutant daughter anymore, and the last bit of goodwill she had just died. All this over a nine year period. Altogether, it’s almost fifteen years now. That’s a long time to go without a proper redemption story.

These three very complicated people with mental health and incredible power tore an entire people asunder, and the history of mutantdom, the world, and comics were changed forever. But it’s left so much unresolved and it shows in the strong emotions it evokes even after nearly two decades. That tells me there is so much that can be done with this family and their dynamic. Fans are intensely interested in this story finally reaching a conclusion and catharsis. I think it would make for fascinating readings, and do them all good, if only to finally move on.

[Handsome men don't lose fights]

he stole an x-gene from Jacob Gavin jr (and possibly other mutants). that puts him on the same level as the Reavers who skinned Domino. Apocalypse didn't make him a mutant any more than he did Ahab or Moses Magnum.

His predecessor did that and created a mutant clone of himself who later became the prime sinister who deseminated mutant DNA throughout his kingdom. Prime Sinisters aren't ubiquitous in their thoughts and personalities. A mutant Sinister very much is a mutant Sinister. And they did that to themselves with no input from Apocalypse.