Avengers #5 Review/SPOILERS

[Prof. Warren]

This issue (and arc) was horrible... Aaron is literally ignoring all established Marvel canon for his own needs. Celestials are established as beings which can literally destroy galaxies, but apparently they need Loki’s help and an entire army to destroy Earth, and get killed by little space bugs which Black Panther can punch out? Aaron wrote Celestials being unharmed inside the core of the Sun but now they can be pierced by a few megatons which is like a nuke? Iron Man struggles to beat the Hulk no matter what armor he builds, but now he can build one to kill Celestials (keep in mind that the Hulk’s most impressive power showing was destroying a planet, while Celestials casually destroy galaxies)? This all reads like bad fan fiction. The only saving grace of this shitshow is the art. McGuinness kills it like always.

The fact that the Celestials are susceptible to The Horde doesn't seem like that much of a stretch.

Any being can succumb to an infection or virus. Especially one that they haven't had the time to study.

Black Panther and Carol had the time and means to devise a way to fight them.

And whether Tony's Godkiller Armor can do what he built it for remains to be seen.

I don’t understand how Aaron even continues to find work at Marvel at this point.

Because his books consistently sell. If people buy your work, you're going to keep getting jobs.

[Rosebunse]

Aaron has his issues, but his stuff has consistently sold and sold well despite them. He's shown to be extremely versatile and even if this isn't the best Avengers book ever, I can't say that it's bad.

The characters clearly have their issues with each other, but they're willing to work together and be professional about it, which is more than what other writers have done with them recently.

And while I'm frankly confused by what he is doing with Loki, I do find it interesting that we have Thor come out on the same day as this issue and in it we have a very different Loki. Is this bad writing? Or is this a deliberate choice on Aaron's part? Is this a part of his plan?

[blackspidey2099]

The fact that the Celestials are susceptible to The Horde doesn't seem like that much of a stretch.

Any being can succumb to an infection or virus. Especially one that they haven't had the time to study.

Black Panther and Carol had the time and means to devise a way to fight them.

So you think it's good writing for beings who can casually wipe out entire galaxies to not even be able to destroy Earth? Even when no one was attacking them? Also, based on this issue, the Celestials knew about the Horde for billions of years, and they are literally omniscient - much smarter than any Earth genius could ever hope to be. How can Black Panther find a solution in like minutes while Celestials can't cure the Horde in years?

And whether Tony's Godkiller Armor can do what he built it for remains to be seen.

If Iron Man, She-Hulk, Thor, and both Captains don't get instantly defeated next issue, that's just horrible writing. The only one who should be able to put up a fight is Robbie, since he's piloting an actual Celestial.

Because his books consistently sell. If people buy your work, you're going to keep getting jobs.

Don't really know anything about the sales numbers, but this is true. Unfortunately.

[Prof. Warren]

So you think it's good writing for beings who can casually wipe out entire galaxies to not even be able to destroy Earth? Even when no one was attacking them? Also, based on this issue, the Celestials knew about the Horde for billions of years, and they are literally omniscient - much smarter than any Earth genius could ever hope to be. How can Black Panther find a solution in like minutes while Celestials can't cure the Horde in years?

It seems like the Celestials weren't interested in finding a cure. They left the Horde to be isolated on Earth.

There may be more yet to be revealed, though, about their attitude towards the Horde. So far, we're only going by Loki's word.

[Rosebunse]

Loki's best lies are peppered with a bit of truth.

It seems to me that it would be perfectly reasonable for the other Celestials to leave Earth alone for a few million years and then come back after the infection cooled.

[kilderkin]

The fact that the Celestials are susceptible to The Horde doesn't seem like that much of a stretch.

Any being can succumb to an infection or virus. Especially one that they haven't had the time to study.

Black Panther and Carol had the time and means to devise a way to fight them.

And whether Tony's Godkiller Armor can do what he built it for remains to be seen.



Because his books consistently sell. If people buy your work, you're going to keep getting jobs.

I thought the idea that T'challa and Carol could handle the bugs when a Celestial could not, within the time frame shown, very silly in universe logic, but I find that with Aaron a lot

[Rosebunse]

I thought the idea that T'challa and Carol could handle the bugs when a Celestial could not, within the time frame shown, very silly in universe logic, but I find that with Aaron a lot

To be fair, they got hit with just a bit of that energy, while the Celestial has had a sustained infection over a very long period of time.

[kilderkin]

To be fair, they got hit with just a bit of that energy, while the Celestial has had a sustained infection over a very long period of time.

Even if the one celestial being unable to cope worked for me - which I still find ridiculous

the idea the rest coukd not in moments eradicate the problem I find utterly preposterous given their power levels, especially as a combined force

I find it a very thin idea at best on which to frame the story

But I've seen that from ja before imo

[GrandEleven]

I don't get why some of you are down on McGuinness. The dude is a legit star and Marvel is lucky to have him. I have seen what passes for art on some Marvel titles and it is looking pretty dire out there Nothing against Marquez but he is second tier and isn't good enough to keep me reading Aaron's stories.

Quite frankly McGuiness shows a complete lack of understanding of how changing details in various parts of the page impacts the focus of the eyes and depth of the overall image. All of his work is extraordinarily flat, and it's completely up to the colorist to be able to separate heroes form the backgrounds A general lack of understanding of negative space and angles makes all his work feel like an even pencil splotch on the page, where you can discover details as you look but in general everything disappears into everything else with no focus or scope. That last splash page in particular the 4 heroes look like 4 shrinky dinks were laid out on the page and randomly moved around until it felt each could be seen pretty good then traced down and a landscape added around them. If not for the tiny house there's no real sense of size in those images. Why wasn't the viewing angle tilted so the reader felt he was looking up upon giants? Why are lighting effects completely unique between each hero with flaming heads and glowing green auras not washing the page in lights? Why nohulking stance used to denote the weight or scale of their new size and instead we see Thor in a supremely generic pose?

I categorically disagree that its "stellar". Stellar was Dauterman on Mighty Thor. This is plain.

[kilderkin]

Quite frankly McGuiness shows a complete lack of understanding of how changing details in various parts of the page impacts the focus of the eyes and depth of the overall image. All of his work is extraordinarily flat, and it's completely up to the colorist to be able to separate heroes form the backgrounds A general lack of understanding of negative space and angles makes all his work feel like an even pencil splotch on the page, where you can discover details as you look but in general everything disappears into everything else with no focus or scope. That last splash page in particular the 4 heroes look like 4 shrinky dinks were laid out on the page and randomly moved around until it felt each could be seen pretty good then traced down and a landscape added around them. If not for the tiny house there's no real sense of size in those images. Why wasn't the viewing angle tilted so the reader felt he was looking up upon giants? Why are lighting effects completely unique between each hero with flaming heads and glowing green auras not washing the page in lights? Why nohulking stance used to denote the weight or scale of their new size and instead we see Thor in a supremely generic pose?

I categorically disagree that its "stellar". Stellar was Dauterman on Mighty Thor. This is plain.

I find he does big bold images well, but it lacks detail and depth

the faces in particular look very bland to me

I had the same view with his run on the hulk

Not bad, but it feels a bit simple and lacking any real detail, almost like it's a bit rushed

the big scenes can be great but the small moments don't look any different so I get no sense of scale or finesse

Imo

[DjMichael691]

Loki's storytelling couldn't be any less interesting. The bigger this Avengers title gets, the more absurd it is becoming. This is a real pity.

[vitruvian]

Doesn't much feel like it.

The Celestials, in the past, were cosmic giants. They don't feel like that here, nor does this reveal that they infused the planet with their DNA seem all that shocking because 1) It's being told by the God of lies and 2) it's not that different from past canon, because it's been stated in the past that the Celestials created superhumans on earth back in the 80.

Why do we need a 'shocking, ancient reveal!' every damn arc? How about just saving the world?

Not quite sure how the Celestials inside their armor, which have generally been shown to be extradimensional or even somewhat abstract energy/force beings rather than anything biological in the same sense as life on Earth, would be any more palatable to the Horde, unless the Horde is nearly as good at eating 'pure energy' as Galactus - although I guess that much is possible.

More importantly, though, I wouldn't think that a Celestial would have DNA or flesh per se to mix with the early organic soup giving rise to life on this planet. Seems like it would make more sense to say that its weird energies seeped into the planet and its ecosystem and had all sorts of effects. If we hadn't recently seen that Asgardian and Olympian-like deities and gods arise and exist throughout the universe in the Thor books, I would say this could even usefully explain how Gaea and the other Elder Gods arose at the same time.

Anyway, I'm not going to say this is trash just yet, going to continue giving the storyline a chance... but it does still raise a lot of questions about the Celestials' actions in past storylines, especially the actions of the First, Second, Third, and Fourth Hosts not really suggesting any fear of contamination by the Horde on their part - assuming that these events still happened. Hopefully, these questions, as well as whether the Fulcrum is doing anything about the Horde entirely overtaking the Celestials, will be answered at some point in the storyline - if not, I will have to rate the story as disappointing.

[vitruvian]

And the difference here is a matter of intent and purpose. Whereas it's always been the belief that the Celestials deliberately influenced the development of life on this planet as part of a grand design, to find out that it was instead all an accident and the path of evolution on Earth was determined by pure chance and by the gruesome, lingering demise of a Celestial rather than from any deliberate handiwork does puts things in a different light.

Wouldn't it be both accidental and deliberate? After all, I see no statement in the story that all the previously known Hosts of Celestials didn't come to Earth and act exactly as they've been shown to in past stories. Or at least the Second and later Hosts, I guess, after there were Eternals and Deviants present to record their actions such as devastating the Deviant civilization of Lemuria, or Thor to remember precisely what the Fourth Host did.

[vitruvian]

It seems like the Celestials weren't interested in finding a cure. They left the Horde to be isolated on Earth.

There may be more yet to be revealed, though, about their attitude towards the Horde. So far, we're only going by Loki's word.

Well, no, we're not really. The Horde was not introduced in this story, but featured in earlier ones where it was shown that the Celestials and the Horde have been opposing forces for billions of years - so if the Celestials have known for that long that they can be 'infected' by the Horde themselves, they would have to be either interested in finding a cure, or not interested in doing their jobs for the Fulcrum.