James Gunn dropped from GOTG 3

[numberthirty]

"Disney/Marvel have other movies coming out so they obviously don't care that they potentially blew up what was sure to be one of their sure fire hits" continues to be an incredibly stupid take.

"Sure" is not a certainty.

Possible? Yep.

Sure? Not so much.

[Kevinroc]

"Sure" is not a certainty.

Possible? Yep.

Sure? Not so much.

The fact that this is what your argument has been reduced to says it all.

[numberthirty]

"We fired the director of one of our biggest projects, a man who contributed to the build up of some of our biggest movies, and now we've placed what was supposed to be the cornerstone of the cosmic side of our movies on indefinite hiatus" hardly seems like something I would classify as not even a "stumble."

If you can tell me how firing the guy sends the entirety of the Disney/Marvel shared universe into a black hole that no profitable film can make it out of?

We've go something to talk about.

Otherwise, I have almost no doubt in my mind that they will get along just fine.

[numberthirty]

The fact that this is what your argument has been reduced to says it all.

Just taking a moment to point out that a lost of the "Massive Mistake" scenario you are laying out hinges on certainties that are anything but.

[Kevinroc]

If you can tell me how firing the guy sends the entirety of the Disney/Marvel shared universe into a black hole that no profitable film can make it out of?

We've go something to talk about.

Otherwise, I have almost no doubt in my mind that they will get along just fine.

Just taking a moment to point out that a lost of the "Massive Mistake" scenario you are laying out hinges on certainties that are anything but.

You literally made these two posts minutes apart from each other.

[numberthirty]

You literally made these two posts minutes apart from each other.

If you want to place a bet on DC/Marvel falling to pieces now that Gunn is gone, I'll give you three boxes of jellybeans to one odds.

[Kevinroc]

If you want to place a bet on DC/Marvel falling to pieces now that Gunn is gone, I'll give you three boxes of jellybeans to one odds.

I never said Disney/Marvel were going to go under because they fired Gunn. You don't even understand my point at all. My point was Disney has screwed Guardians 3 over. And from the looks of things, Disney actually has screwed Guardians 3 over.

[numberthirty]

I never said Disney/Marvel were going to go under because they fired Gunn. You don't even understand my point at all. My point was Disney has screwed Guardians 3 over. And from the looks of things, Disney actually has screwed Guardians 3 over.

No, I get what you point is.

One guy's take...

A few month out from : Infinity War, I feel like how well the "Guardians" characters came off underscored how well they were not developed in the second "Guardians" film.

While I know that some folks feel differently, the progression from the first to second "Guardians" films wasn't really doing a great job of moving those characters forward(Yondu, and maybe Rocket, being the exceptions).

Factoring in the latest "Avengers" film, I just don't see it as some massive raw deal. The characters were just so much better in that film that it got me to thinking about where they were planning on going.

Never mind that I wasn't at all sold on the entire "Cosmic" aspect of things being in Gunn's hands. I don't really know if I feel like it should(assuming it is still going forward) be in any one set of "Bigger Picture" hands.

[Kevinroc]

No, I get what you point is.

One guy's take...

A few month out from : Infinity War, I feel like how well the "Guardians" characters came off underscored how well they were not developed in the second "Guardians" film.

While I know that some folks feel differently, the progression from the first to second "Guardians" films wasn't really doing a great job of moving those characters forward(Yondu, and maybe Rocket, being the exceptions).

Factoring in the latest "Avengers" film, I just don't see it as some massive raw deal. The characters were just so much better in that film that it got me to thinking about where they were planning on going.

Never mind that I wasn't at all sold on the entire "Cosmic" aspect of things being in Gunn's hands. I don't really know if I feel like it should(assuming it is still going forward) be in any one set of "Bigger Picture" hands.

I would recommend Lindsay Ellis' video essay on Guardians 2.



But even if you don't want to watch her video, and even if you don't like Guardians 2, that's fine. That's your opinion and you don't have to like whatever you don't like for whatever reason you have. I personally really liked Guardians 2. Probably liked it more than the first one.

I was looking forward to Guardians 3. And whatever was coming after Guardians 3.

The circumstances behind Gunn's firing matter. They're a big reason why I am so passionate about this issue. And I'm sure Black Panther 2 will be amazing. And I'm sure people will be excited about Eternals or the MCU X-Men and Fantastic Four. But I was looking forward to Guardians 3 most of all. And now I'm just not. But given everything that's happened, maybe that's for the best.

[numberthirty]

You know, I've actually seen that video.

As for the second "Guardians" film, I'd agree that it was a better film than the first one. That said, it wasn't a particularly high hurdle to clear.

That said, it was sort of a shocker to me how much they moved Rocket forward towards being a fully former character in under three minutes here versus two "Guardians" films...



What Rocket isn't saying in that scene is almost equal to the entirety of the two "Guardians" films. Never mind that words on paper and animation actually wind up being every bit as compelling as Hemsworth's work in that scene.

For me, it was right about then that I started to feel like building everything on the "Cosmic" end from there on out the way Gunn probably would have might not have resulted in the characters being as deep as the really deserved to be.

As for Gunn's firing, agree to disagree. When I look at what he chose to and not to pull down off of social media, I don't get the idea that the guy actually felt the need to seriously address things until he had no other choice but to do so.

[Kevinroc]

You know, I've actually seen that video.

As for the second "Guardians" film, I'd agree that it was a better film than the first one. That said, it wasn't a particularly high hurdle to clear.

That said, it was sort of a shocker to me how much they moved Rocket forward towards being a fully former character in under three minutes here versus two "Guardians" films...



What Rocket isn't saying in that scene is almost equal to the entirety of the two "Guardians" films. Never mind that words on paper and animation actually wind up being every bit as compelling as Hemsworth's work in that scene.

For me, it was right about then that I started to feel like building everything on the "Cosmic" end from there on out the way Gunn probably would have might not have resulted in the characters being as deep as the really deserved to be.

As for Gunn's firing, agree to disagree. When I look at what he chose to and not to pull down off of social media, I don't get the idea that the guy actually felt the need to seriously address things until he had no other choice but to do so.

It's funny that you mention Infinity War. Because Gunn worked on all the Guardians scenes in Infinity War (such as the selection of "Rubberband Man" during their first scene). He (and Pratt) even got the directors and screenwriters to change the scene when Thanos takes Gamora on Knowhere. Quill was originally not going to pull the trigger, but Gunn and Pratt convinced them to change the scene so that Quill does pull the trigger. There's a reason Gunn got an Executive Producer credit on that film.

https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/infini...s-big-decision

We knew Guardians of the Galaxy director James Gunn worked on Infinity War as an advisor to the GotG sections, finding music that would be appropriate and tweaking dialogue to fit the tone. But he also changed and signed off on — along with star Chris Pratt — a major decision by the gang’s leader. Here’s where things get spoilery.

Gamora knows the location of the one Infinity Stone that Thanos can’t find. She destroyed the map to the Soul Stone, but she could still lead Thanos there under the right amount of duress. She knows this and makes Star-Lord promise to kill her if Thanos ever gets ahold of her. Star-Lord says sure, but in the original script, when the time comes for him to pull the trigger, he can’t do it. That doesn’t sound like Star-Lord, or at least, it didn’t to Gunn and Pratt, according to Buzzfeed.

So they changed the script. Pratt pulls the trigger but only bubbles come out, thanks to Thanos' reality-warping abilities. “The more I think about it, the better it is that it got changed,” said screenwriter Stephen McFeely. It sets up yet another example of Thanos’ reality-bending powers and confirms that Star-Lord was willing to fulfill his promise and make the hard call.

So it feels weird to see you praising Infinity War and the scenes involving the Guardians while also dismissing Gunn at the same time.

[numberthirty]

Sure.

He worked on the film as an advisor.

If he was as involved in the scene I mentioned as the one in your quote, I haven't seen anyone actually say so. Have you seen anything you can link to?

As for the scene you mentioned, I'm not such a big fan of it. It's not terrible. Just not anything I was all that impressed with.

Back to the scene I mentioned...

Minus any indication that it was reworked to the degree that the scene you mentioned was, I don't really see it as being a "Gunn" scene top to bottom the way the "Guardians films are.

[GozertheGozarian]

They're trolls, cut them loose.

[Kevinroc]

Sure.

He worked on the film as an advisor.

If he was as involved in the scene I mentioned as the one in your quote, I haven't seen anyone actually say so. Have you seen anything you can link to?

As for the scene you mentioned, I'm not such a big fan of it. It's not terrible. Just not anything I was all that impressed with.

Back to the scene I mentioned...

Minus any indication that it was reworked to the degree that the scene you mentioned was, I don't really see it as being a "Gunn" scene top to bottom the way the "Guardians films are.

He worked on ALL Guardians sections of the film. That's what it says right in the article I linked to. Up to the point that he (and Pratt) actually got a scene changed.

You can't try to rewrite Gunn's involvement because it doesn't fit your narrative. If it involved the Guardians in Infinity War, it involved Gunn.

[numberthirty]

He worked on ALL Guardians sections of the film. That's what it says right in the article I linked to. Up to the point that he (and Pratt) actually got a scene changed.

You can't try to rewrite Gunn's involvement because it doesn't fit your narrative. If it involved the Guardians in Infinity War, it involved Gunn.

The article goes out of it's way to point out the one time that changes were actually made(outside of a song selection).

That is probably indicates just how much work he did. If there was more to it than that one scene, no article I've ever come across points to anything more than "Dialog Tweak"(which is even in the article you linked to).

No one is "Rewriting" something by pointing out what it actually amounted to.