Marvel Knights is getting relaunched with Donny Cates at the helm

[GrandEleven]

I'll voice that I don't know that Cates getting another book is a good thing. He killed it in Thanos Wins, but that was a story largely based in an alternate universe where's he was free to just mess around consequence free. Here's landing a lot of books right now that require a dramatically different approach yet he hasn't proven to be able handle them yet. This has "Bendis 2" written all over it (Miles is amazing!!! .... OMG civil war 2 was terrible!)

I'm a bit concerned, honestly. Put the guy where he shines: cosmic stories. Putting him on everything ... I'm concerned. (I'm baking this partially on venom where he immediately dove back into mythology/Pantheon work... I've but seen the diversity from him, yet)

[kilderkin]

Well I guess that's one Inhuman safe from the 'Death of the Inhumans'.

Isn't he one of them that's not been mutated by Terri gen?

Might be why he's still around?

[L.R Johansson]

Attachment 68498
And Jeremy Whitley's a white guy, but I'm annoyed that he isn't writing a Misty Knight solo this very moment. So it's not about limiting at all.

Oh? Whitley, you say? Why him, specifically? (who is he, btw...?) Did he write a very good Misty Knight back-up story recently, or something?

A bit like, how, for instance, Mark Waid wrote a brilliant Hank Pym backup back before Avengers AI launched. (sadly... instead of letting Waid write a Pym solo-book)

[milton75]

I just want to say that even when I disagree with Tiamatty, and I partially do in this instance (can't go into why right now - gotta put my boy to bed), I always really enjoy reading the posts.

Sometimes I agree, sometimes not, but it's always a delight to read forthright opinion in which real effort has been put into expressing oneself. Great stuff

[Tiamatty]

Oh? Whitley, you say? Why him, specifically? (who is he, btw...?) Did he write a very good Misty Knight back-up story recently, or something?

A bit like, how, for instance, Mark Waid wrote a brilliant Hank Pym backup back before Avengers AI launched. (sadly... instead of letting Waid write a Pym solo-book)

Whitley's a huge Misty Knight fan. He's written a couple Misty Knight stories in anthologies - he did a Misty/Danny story in Secret Love, and a Misty story in a CWII anthology comic. He also writes Princeless, about a black princess, and Raven: Pirate Princess, about a very diverse group of lady pirates. He has a black wife, and two daughters, so black female representation is something he cares a lot about. And he writes really fun comics.

[Huntsman Spider]

Whitley's a huge Misty Knight fan. He's written a couple Misty Knight stories in anthologies - he did a Misty/Danny story in Secret Love, and a Misty story in a CWII anthology comic. He also writes Princeless, about a black princess, and Raven: Pirate Princess, about a very diverse group of lady pirates. He has a black wife, and two daughters, so black female representation is something he cares a lot about. And he writes really fun comics.

That was him? Nice. I adored that story to pieces, especially for Misty and Danny's daughter Lucy and her friendship with Luke Cage and Jessica Jones's daughter Dani. That said, I think I'm going to enjoy Donny Cates masterminding the rebirth of Marvel Knights, and hope somewhere down the line, there comes another Marvel Knights Spider-Man, because the first MK Spider-Man with Mark Millar was solid.

[GrandEleven]

Fair enough, I'm sorry. The Punisher is a concept that bothers me - the whole revenge-fantasy angle. I've never really been into that kind of thing. I find it weird and disturbing. I can really only see him as a mass murderer, and the only reason he works is because he never makes a mistake. Everyone he kills is guilty, because the moment he screws up and kills someone who it turns out wasn't a killer or a crack dealer or a puppy-kicker, then he can't operate any more. So I'm probably more dismissive of him than I should be. So, sorry.

Was going to go in a totally different response direction at first, then read the above.

Instead I'm merely highlighting that this response impressed me. Honestly. While I am often critical of the stance you take on certain issues, I truly respect your willingness to demonstrate the viewpoint you champion, which is honestly more rare than it should be. Bravo.

We now return to our regularly scheduled debate.

[Raye]

I'll voice that I don't know that Cates getting another book is a good thing. He killed it in Thanos Wins, but that was a story largely based in an alternate universe where's he was free to just mess around consequence free. Here's landing a lot of books right now that require a dramatically different approach yet he hasn't proven to be able handle them yet. This has "Bendis 2" written all over it (Miles is amazing!!! .... OMG civil war 2 was terrible!)

I'm a bit concerned, honestly. Put the guy where he shines: cosmic stories. Putting him on everything ... I'm concerned. (I'm baking this partially on venom where he immediately dove back into mythology/Pantheon work... I've but seen the diversity from him, yet)

Just because one of his stories was cosmic and set in the far future doesn't mean that's all he can do... besides Thanos and Venom, he also did Dr Strange, and Damnation spinning out of that (which felt a little rushed to me, but was fun. and set up a new Midnight Sons team which I PRESUME will be another addition to Marvel Knights...) set solidly within the MU on Earth, and used aspects of that. He co-wrote parts of Secret Empire, (Stevil addressing the UN, in particular) and on the creator owned side of things, God Country revealed that pretty much all he wants to do is write Thor, so a little cosmic, sure, but mostly dealing with a human man with his fancy magic sword as the main character, Babyteeth is about the antichrist, Redneck is about vampires.... he's hardly just a 'cosmic' writer.

Anyway, since it appears people haven't checked back on the article, they added a clarification. this is not an ongoing thing, it's like, a bunch of minis or something to celebrate the anniversary of Marvel Knights. A little disappointing, but should still be fun.

[responsarbre]

Just because one of his stories was cosmic and set in the far future doesn't mean that's all he can do... besides Thanos and Venom, he also did Dr Strange, and Damnation spinning out of that (which felt a little rushed to me, but was fun. and set up a new Midnight Sons team which I PRESUME will be another addition to Marvel Knights...) set solidly within the MU on Earth, and used aspects of that. He co-wrote parts of Secret Empire, (Stevil addressing the UN, in particular) and on the creator owned side of things, God Country revealed that pretty much all he wants to do is write Thor, so a little cosmic, sure, but mostly dealing with a human man with his fancy magic sword as the main character, Babyteeth is about the antichrist, Redneck is about vampires.... he's hardly just a 'cosmic' writer.

Anyway, since it appears people haven't checked back on the article, they added a clarification. this is not an ongoing thing, it's like, a bunch of minis or something to celebrate the anniversary of Marvel Knights. A little disappointing, but should still be fun.

It's actually just the single one-shot. MK20 #1. I think there was some poor phrasing at the event which led to this being misinterpreted and blown out of proportion.

[GrandEleven]

Just because one of his stories was cosmic and set in the far future doesn't mean that's all he can do... besides Thanos and Venom, he also did Dr Strange, and Damnation spinning out of that (which felt a little rushed to me, but was fun. and set up a new Midnight Sons team which I PRESUME will be another addition to Marvel Knights...) set solidly within the MU on Earth, and used aspects of that. He co-wrote parts of Secret Empire, (Stevil addressing the UN, in particular) and on the creator owned side of things, God Country revealed that pretty much all he wants to do is write Thor, so a little cosmic, sure, but mostly dealing with a human man with his fancy magic sword as the main character, Babyteeth is about the antichrist, Redneck is about vampires.... he's hardly just a 'cosmic' writer.

I don't consider Thor "a little cosmic" ... I mean a book of gods is pretty ... cosmic.

Aside from that Strange is very magic/mystical, and Venom #1 ... well in the first issue he went right ot his go-to "symbiote god". HE has a niche. I like that niche actually, it's a good thing. But it's a clear preferences for mystical, magical and pantheons. Now lets put Punisher in his hands ... see the potential clash?

I fully admit to speculating ... he could write it and it could be fantastic. But I also get concerned when a writer goes from one lead title to a half dozen really rapidly. I think writers who go into "Story machine mode" start favoring the plot driven story over the character driven one ... and some super heroes simply demand a character driven story. That's Why I feel Bendis is a decent example: given his own IP (creating Miles and JJ) where he can create characters that happen to fit his story things are awesome. Given an established character that doesn't fit the story ... well there's plenty of threads on that. It takes a different kind of writer to approach character driven stories IMO. Those types don't lend themselves to mass producing stories.

It's actually just the single one-shot. MK20 #1. I think there was some poor phrasing at the event which led to this being misinterpreted and blown out of proportion.

Well that does make me feel better. I need him focusing on Cosmic Ghost Rider, after all.

[Raye]

Thor CAN be cosmic, it's more often fantasy or just straight up superhero stuff though. For me to think of something as 'cosmic' i generally need to see a lot of space and planets etc. not giants and trolls.

And... no, I don't see the conflict. Writers are capable of doing more than one thing. While he does deal with fairly big concepts, so far they have also been fairly grounded in the character. It's not always one or the other, concept/plot or character, it can be both, and he is good at balancing them. Cosmic Ghost rider is crazy when you hear about it, but.... it does make sense for Frank. And the Thanos stuff in that story was more introspective character study than anything. Dr Strange was more than anything else a character study of both Strange and Loki in their present status quos, and primarily dealt with Strange's relationships, insecurities etc. the big mystical stuff was, frankly, very peripheral to the story, even if it got flashy at times. It wasn't really about the magic, even though that helped move the plot along, it was about the characters first and foremost. Describing his run on Dr Strange as just 'mystical' would be like describing Vision as just 'Sci-fi' because it was about androids. They ARE those things, to one degree or another, but they are so much more, and the 'mystical' or 'sci-fi' aspects are almost secondary in a way once you get past the basic premise. And as long as a writer is good with character, and tends to focus on that, which Cates usually does, the specific genre surrounding the characters becomes almost inconsequential.

I just think you are pigeon holing him unfairly, as this big concept all flash kind of thing, based on very little. Everything I've read from him makes me think he'd do great with any character he wanted. He does do big flashy way out there concepts a lot of the time, sure, but not always, and it nearly always has a strongly character driven core story. Sure, some writers absolutely like to stick to one genre and just roll with it forever, like Jim Starlin. But that is his choice, it just seems to be what he likes to do. Cates though (and some others) is a bit more varied, he shows interest in multiple genres and settings, and I think it would be a shame for us to decide based on some of his first stories for Marvel that he can't branch out beyond that.

[Daniel22]

I think Cates is getting sold short, also. "God Country", for example, is definitely partly cosmic. I mean the guy gets taken to Kirby's Asgard and finds Thor's Hammer. But beyond the surface level conflict, it was a touching and heartbreaking story about family, age and memory. It is an exploration of the parental relationship, from the perspective of a son looking at his aging parent. There was a LOT there besides the cosmic action and setting. On the flip side, "Babyteeth" looks at the family dynamic from the other end, with the focus on the parent-child relationship from the perspective of the parent towards an infant. They are vastly different, despite their similar surface level traits.

I think we like to put writers (and stories) in one single box, and when we do that we do them a huge disservice. We could say "Vision" was a sci fi story about androids, but it would be more accurate to say it was an exploration of family dynamics, familial roles, the power of memory, the way our past relationships shape our current ones, and a half dozen other ideas.
So while "Thanos" and "God Country" or "Redneck" and "Babyteeth" might share the same broad genre classifications, I don't think that means Cates is only capable of telling those kinds of stories, or should be limited to certain subgenres.

[QBall]

I mean, Priest wasn't exactly new to Marvel back then. Joke above aside, the MK Punisher was written by Michael Golden, who was a pretty big artist at Marvel, especially in the '80s, with Micronauts.

Nope it was Christopher Golden, author of some fine Mignolaverse books.

[responsarbre]

I sort of suspected this, but it looks like MK20 isn't just a one-shot and there's more to come.

Marvel Comics has revealed that the announced Marvel Knights revamp will be published as a six-issue limited series event featuring Daredevil, the Punisher, Black Panther, Elektra, and unnamed others.

Travel Foreman is slated to draw Marvel Knights #1, with Niko Henrichon drawing #2. The artists for the remaining for issues have not been announced, but Cosmic Ghost Rider co-creator Geoff Shaw will be providing covers with Marvel Knights alum Jae Lee returning to draw variants.

As previously announced, Donny Cates will act as showrunner for the series, and be joined by writers Matthew Rosenberg, Tini Howard, and Vita Ayala.

In addition to the core Marvel Knights event series, Marvel plans a digital comics promotion and series of variants across its line with art from John Cassaday J.G. Jones, Terry Dodson, and others.

Marvel Knights #1 is scheduled to be released this November.

It isn't MK20 anymore, but a proper Marvel Knights miniseries, and it seems to be resurrecting the idea of a loose team from the the two Marvel Knights team books. With a tease of more to come down the line.

[UltimateTy]

It would be cool if Joe Q, Mark Texeira and Jae Lee did issues