Peter J. Tomasi on Detective Comics with Doug Mahnke from #994

[Blight]

Eh, it finally happened. On the plus it means Damian probably is going to show up in Detective Comics. Really that's the only plus I feel about this. Not really fond of his Bruce or his take of the "Bat Family". On the downside, whelp Cassandra is so gonna get ignored again by him since that's a thing he loves to do. Hopefully, she's in Outsiders (whenever the heck that's announced).

[Onthetrapeze]

Eh, it finally happened. On the plus it means Damian probably is going to show up in Detective Comics. Really that's the only plus I feel about this. Not really fond of his Bruce or his take of the "Bat Family". On the downside, whelp Cassandra is so gonna get ignored again by him since that's a thing he loves to do. Hopefully, she's in Outsiders (whenever the heck that's announced).

Wait，Outsiders has been confirmed？Source please？

[Armor of God]

I dont really understand why Steph and Cass fans have such an obsession with Tomasi. If you dont like his take on Batman or the family then why in Gods name would you want him to write Cass or Steph? sounds strange to the say the least. As for ignoring them, when was the last time Snyder or King used them? in the Rebirth era and onwards DC has and plans further to release a whole truck load of Batman minis, about 19 by my count as well as Deathstroke vs Batman, how many of those have Cass or Steph? truth is that Batman writers barely use Batgirl and Robin so why would anyone expect them to use ex Batgirls? I honestly think its jealousy. Tomasi will likely use Damian and may use Dick, Babs and Jason but that frankly doesn't entitle Cass or Steph fans to anything. I had my issues with Tynion but I dont hate his run because he barely used Dick, Damian or Jason. I dont hate Hill because he's using Duke and Cass but not Damian. I dislike Duke the character yes but Hill can use whatever he wants.

Tynion and his run was major anomaly or outlier.

[Armor of God]

Not too hot if Tomasi is only on till 1000

I see no indication of that, he's the permanent writer.

[millernumber1]

I dont really understand why Steph and Cass fans have such an obsession with Tomasi. If you dont like his take on Batman or the family then why in Gods name would you want him to write Cass or Steph? sounds strange to the say the least. As for ignoring them, when was the last time Snyder or King used them? in the Rebirth era and onwards DC has and plans further to release a whole truck load of Batman minis, about 19 by my count as well as Deathstroke vs Batman, how many of those have Cass or Steph? truth is that Batman writers barely use Batgirl and Robin so why would anyone expect them to use ex Batgirls? I honestly think its jealousy. Tomasi will likely use Damian and may use Dick, Babs and Jason but that frankly doesn't entitle Cass or Steph fans to anything. I had my issues with Tynion but I dont hate his run because he barely used Dick, Damian or Jason. I dont hate Hill because he's using Duke and Cass but not Damian. I dislike Duke the character yes but Hill can use whatever he wants.

Tynion and his run was major anomaly or outlier.

I've never wanted Tomasi particularly to write Steph or Cass. My problem is that he chooses to completely ignore them (though Cass's appearance in the Super Sons/Dynomutt crossover special is an interesting anomaly). The belief that he doesn't like Cass comes from his editorial during Cass's ridiculous "going evil" storyline, and his complete writing out of Cass right after she took over the Outsiders. I have no particular belief that he hates Steph.

I have my frustrations with Snyder, but he's lent his name to Steph and Cass in the Eternals. King used Steph in the Annual #2.

[Armor of God]

I've never wanted Tomasi particularly to write Steph or Cass. My problem is that he chooses to completely ignore them (though Cass's appearance in the Super Sons/Dynomutt crossover special is an interesting anomaly). The belief that he doesn't like Cass comes from his editorial during Cass's ridiculous "going evil" storyline, and his complete writing out of Cass right after she took over the Outsiders. I have no particular belief that he hates Steph.

I have my frustrations with Snyder, but he's lent his name to Steph and Cass in the Eternals. King used Steph in the Annual #2.

But where was he supposed to include them? 90% of Tomasi's work on Batman has been from the New 52 and onwards, a period in which Cass and Steph mostly did not exist. Pre Flashpoint he wrote a Nightwing run that was cut short and I dont see Percy, Seeley or Humphries rushing to use Cass or Steph either and why would they? they were hired to write Nightwing after all. His other work was a 3 issue Batman and Robin run and a 3 issue Batman: Blackest Night tieinn, the former was about Dick and Damian while the latter was about Dick and Tim. Mind you Tomasi wasn't even a Damian fan back then, he used Damian because Damian was Robin and he was tasked with writing Batman and Robin and because Dick and Damian were the hot new status quo in town. The editorial restored the classic Outsiders line up after the they had a falling out with Dixon and once again he was only a fill in writer, gone after 8 issues. That was about just pretending that the previous run didn't happen so that the book could move forward which is pretty normal for comics. His Pre Flashpoint Batfamily work was mostly fillin and brief.

King inserted dozens of barely visible characters in to the background out of which one of whom was Steph. Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if he just told the artist to fill out the panel with whatever characters he could. He's written 52 issues of Batman, a one shot, annual, short story and this is before I get in to Robin War and Grayson, no Cass whatsoever. Snyder was only helping his protege by lending his name. Its not like Snyder ran around taking ownership of the characters or those stories. He's a nice guy whose name sells, that's about the extent of his contribution.

[millernumber1]

But where was he supposed to include them? 90% of Tomasi's work on Batman has been from the New 52 and onwards, a period in which Cass and Steph mostly did not exist. Pre Flashpoint he wrote a Nightwing run that was cut short and I dont see Percy, Seeley or Humphries rushing to use Cass or Steph either and why would they? they were hired to write Nightwing after all. His other work was a 3 issue Batman and Robin run and a 3 issue Batman: Blackest Night tieinn, the former was about Dick and Damian while the latter was about Dick and Tim. Mind you Tomasi wasn't even a Damian fan back then, he used Damian because Damian was Robin and he was tasked with writing Batman and Robin and because Dick and Damian were the hot new status quo in town. The editorial restored the classic Outsiders line up after the they had a falling out with Dixon and once again he was only a fill in writer, gone after 8 issues. That was about just pretending that the previous run didn't happen so that the book could move forward which is pretty normal for comics. His Pre Flashpoint Batfamily work was mostly fillin and brief.

King inserted dozens of barely visible characters in to the background out of which one of whom was Steph. Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if he just told the artist to fill out the panel with whatever characters he could. He's written 52 issues of Batman, a one shot, annual, short story and this is before I get in to Robin War and Grayson, no Cass whatsoever. Snyder was only helping his protege by lending his name. Its not like Snyder ran around taking ownership of the characters or those stories. He's a nice guy whose name sells, that's about the extent of his contribution.

Including Cass in Outsiders should have been obvious, given Dixon and Tieri's setup - fill in writer or no, he completely ignored everything that came before. And even if we say "he just wrote Cass out because of no personal dislike whatsoever", that doesn't deal with his role in turning Cass evil.

Seeley actually did include Steph in Nightwing (as one of Dick's prominent dream allies against the dream-invader villain), and he wrote her in Batman and Robin Eternal.

King explicitly included everyone in the death panel who was Robin. It wasn't random. It's not super significant, but it's not an accident.

Snyder wouldn't have helped Tynion do what he did if he didn't have some kind of affection for the characters. I have made similar accusations about Snyder - that he claims to love Steph and Cass, but never writes them himself - but people have apparently talked to him at cons and tell me he's a really big fan of them.

My personal dislike of Tomasi's writing is only partly because of his history (imagined or not) with Cass, and more to do with things I've gone into when discussion Batman and Robin (the n52 run) previously - I don't like the way he treated Jason and Tim, and I don't like the way he excuses Bruce and Damian's morally wrong actions by using sympathy for their pain instead of showing a change in behavior. It's complicated, and a long run that includes a lot of actions that must be interpreted. I've said many, many times that I think he's a very, very skilled writer. I don't like the morality that I read in his books, so I don't really like reading his stuff. But that dislike isn't mostly because of his history with Cass (or anything to do with Steph). It's because I just don't like what he writes - not because it's badly written, but because I disagree with what I believe it's saying. And if you disagree with me about what it's saying, that's also perfectly valid.

[Armor of God]

Including Cass in Outsiders should have been obvious, given Dixon and Tieri's setup - fill in writer or no, he completely ignored everything that came before. And even if we say "he just wrote Cass out because of no personal dislike whatsoever", that doesn't deal with his role in turning Cass evilwas already transitioning to writing during that time and was gone soon after. If it was a matter of his position then what happened to his successors in that position? They didn't bother with Cass either.
He was literally given the job of ignoring everything that came before him. The previous writer had a massive falling out, ofcourse everything he built up to was going to be shelved for a fresh start. Cass is not an Outsiders classic and you really have no reason to expect every Outsiders writer is going to use her. Its about Brion, Jeff, Tatsu, Rex and Halo first and foremost. A writer may introduce additional characters but there is no guarantee a successor will follow them. Snyder got rid of Jess and Simon and replaced them with John, Martian and Hawkgirl on JL. Does it mean he hates them? You think Enchantress, Croc and Katana will be part of Suicide Squad forever? obviously no.

Batman and Robin Eternal was Tynion's project. Seeley was helping another writer tell a story.
The Destiny issue was loaded with cameos galore and background fodder in non speaking roles but the real focus was on Superman and Dick.
Compare this to his use of Damian in Nightwing must Die and Nightwing Rebirth. It also appears that he's made Damian Batman in Injustice. The difference is astronomical.

Babs was Robin?

Notice how weak your examples are, you are literally using once in dozens of issues cameos.

Snyder helped his protege get a career using his influence as the main Batman writer. Where was his affection for Cass and Steph in those 50 plus issues of his run, Metal and all its tie inns, All Star etc? His co collaborations involves discussing the plot with the other writers and then stamping his name for a few extra bucks. The story ideas, the scripting etc are all done by the others.

What you ultimately feel about Tomasi as you stated here is your right. But he can write Jason well if you've read Arkham Knight comics and his Tim is ok and moreover Snyder, Dixon and a whole host of others do the exact same thing as Tomasi. King just had Bruce almost kill Mr Freeze over his woman dumping him. Makes Tomasi's Batman who lost his son seem far more mild.

Seeley actually did include Steph in Nightwing (as one of Dick's prominent dream allies against the dream-invader villain), and he wrote her in Batman and Robin Eternal.

King explicitly included everyone in the death panel who was Robin. It wasn't random. It's not super significant, but it's not an accident.

Snyder wouldn't have helped Tynion do what he did if he didn't have some kind of affection for the characters. I have made similar accusations about Snyder - that he claims to love Steph and Cass, but never writes them himself - but people have apparently talked to him at cons and tell me he's a really big fan of them.

My personal dislike of Tomasi's writing is only partly because of his history (imagined or not) with Cass, and more to do with things I've gone into when discussion Batman and Robin (the n52 run) previously - I don't like the way he treated Jason and Tim, and I don't like the way he excuses Bruce and Damian's morally wrong actions by using sympathy for their pain instead of showing a change in behavior. It's complicated, and a long run that includes a lot of actions that must be interpreted. I've said many, many times that I think he's a very, very skilled writer. I don't like the morality that I read in his books, so I don't really like reading his stuff. But that dislike isn't mostly because of his history with Cass (or anything to do with Steph). It's because I just don't like what he writes - not because it's badly written, but because I disagree with what I believe it's saying. And if you disagree with me about what it's saying, that's also perfectly valid.

I cannot comment on editorial f*ck ups. All I can say is that even the chief anti Cass guy Didio is having Cass star in a DC Ink novel. That, Zoom and Black Label are Didio's pride and passion. So who knows what happened. Tomasi was already transitioning to writing during that time and was gone soon after. If it was a matter of his position then what happened to his successors in that position? They didn't bother with Cass either.
He was literally given the job of ignoring everything that came before him. The previous writer had a massive falling out, ofcourse everything he built up to was going to be shelved for a fresh start. Cass is not an Outsiders classic and you really have no reason to expect every Outsiders writer is going to use her. Its about Brion, Jeff, Tatsu, Rex and Halo first and foremost. A writer may introduce additional characters but there is no guarantee a successor will follow them. Snyder got rid of Jess and Simon and replaced them with John, Martian and Hawkgirl on JL. Does it mean he hates them? You think Enchantress, Croc and Katana will be part of Suicide Squad forever? obviously no.

Batman and Robin Eternal was Tynion's project. Seeley was helping another writer tell a story.
The Destiny issue was loaded with cameos galore and background fodder in non speaking roles but the real focus was on Superman and Dick.
Compare this to his use of Damian in Nightwing must Die and Nightwing Rebirth. It also appears that he's made Damian Batman in Injustice. The difference is astronomical.

Babs was Robin?

Snyder helped his protege get a career using his influence as the main Batman writer. Where was his affection for Cass and Steph in those 50 plus issues of his run, Metal and all its tie inns, All Star etc? His co collaborations involves discussing the plot with the other writers and then stamping his name for a few extra bucks. The story ideas, the scripting etc are all done by the others.

What you ultimately feel about Tomasi as you stated here is your right. But he can write Jason well if you've read Arkham Knight comics and his Tim is ok and moreover Snyder, Dixon and a whole host of others do the exact same thing as Tomasi. King just had Bruce almost kill Mr Freeze over his woman dumping him. Makes Tomasi's Batman who lost his son seem far more mild.

[Fergus]

King inserted dozens of barely visible characters in to the background out of which one of whom was Steph. Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if he just told the artist to fill out the panel with whatever characters he could.

That Batman Annual Podcast with King supports the fact that the artist was told to fill in whatever character he could rather King explicitly including Robins.

He had to consult a cheat sheet to name who was there. When he was pressed on the whereabouts of Damian and Cass he then said that Damian was there. When he was confronted with the fact that no one there matched Damian's description he then claimed the Blonde guy was Damian. When asked why he had blonde hair he gave hat silly answer about working under cover.
For Cass he used that flimsy on a mission line.

Tomasi on Tec is very welcome news. Here's hoping we get an uncluttered book which focuses on Batman and has more of a detective theme.

[Armor of God]

That Batman Annual Podcast with King supports the fact that the artist was told to fill in whatever character he could rather King explicitly including Robins.

He had to consult a cheat sheet to name who was there. When he was pressed on the whereabouts of Damian and Cass he then said that Damian was there. When he was confronted with the fact that no one there matched Damian's description he then claimed the Blonde guy was Damian. When asked why he had blonde hair he gave hat silly answer about working under cover.
For Cass he used that flimsy on a mission line.

Tomasi on Tec is very welcome news. Here's hoping we get an uncluttered book which focuses on Batman and has more of a detective theme.

Yes I remember that. His excuses were poor and rather funny.

[MajorHoy]

I dont really understand why Steph and Cass fans have such an obsession with Tomasi. If you dont like his take on Batman or the family then why in Gods name would you want him to write Cass or Steph? sounds strange to the say the least.

I just struggle to grasp why Cass and Steph are repeatedly forced in to Tomasi related threads. I can understand not being excited for Tomasi because of his legitimate flaws but criticizing him for focusing on Batman in a Batman book is ridiculous.

Some of them may not really want Tomasi writing them.
But where else are Cass and/or Steph possibly going to show up these days? They had recently been in Detective Comics, and now they may be relegated back to limbo.

I see no indication of that, he's the permanent writer.

Has that officially been announced yet? And how many issues usually qualify as "permanent" these days?

[Slim Shady]

I’ll take Tomasi/Mahnke. Tomasi always has at least a good grasp on Batman. Maybe we’ll get some Batman & Robin action. Mahnke always does solid work with the bat-verse. I can’t take King’s Batman and Deathstroke vs Batman will be over by then so I’ll be able to get my Batman from Tec. Hope their run is longer than #994-#1000 though, they can’t just keep going with this whole revolving creative teams thing. If they aren’t going to find anyone else, Tomasi is good and familiar enough to handle it for awhile.

[Armor of God]

Some of them may not really want Tomasi writing them.
But where else are Cass and/or Steph possibly going to show up these days? They had recently been in Detective Comics, and now they may be relegated back to limbo.

Has that officially been announced yet? And how many issues usually qualify as "permanent" these days?

Steph was abandoned immediately after Tynion and pretty much anyone other than Hill would not have used Cass. Fimura didn't and Robinson isn't. This isn't Tomasi's headache. DC has to decide what to do with those characters. Tomasi was simply offered a Batman book, he'll use whatever villains or supporting characters he wants.

Permanent/ongoing until stated otherwise. If he was a fill in they would have made the announcement 2 months later for December solicits instead of SDCC.

[MajorHoy]

Has that officially been announced yet? And how many issues usually qualify as "permanent" these days?

Permanent/ongoing until stated otherwise. If he was a fill in they would have made the announcement 2 months later for December solicits instead of SDCC.

So, "likely" / "probable", but not "officially announced" yet.

[millernumber1]

Batman and Robin Eternal was Tynion's project. Seeley was helping another writer tell a story.
The Destiny issue was loaded with cameos galore and background fodder in non speaking roles but the real focus was on Superman and Dick.
Compare this to his use of Damian in Nightwing must Die and Nightwing Rebirth. It also appears that he's made Damian Batman in Injustice. The difference is astronomical.

Snyder helped his protege get a career using his influence as the main Batman writer. Where was his affection for Cass and Steph in those 50 plus issues of his run, Metal and all its tie inns, All Star etc? His co collaborations involves discussing the plot with the other writers and then stamping his name for a few extra bucks. The story ideas, the scripting etc are all done by the others.

What you ultimately feel about Tomasi as you stated here is your right. But he can write Jason well if you've read Arkham Knight comics and his Tim is ok and moreover Snyder, Dixon and a whole host of others do the exact same thing as Tomasi. King just had Bruce almost kill Mr Freeze over his woman dumping him. Makes Tomasi's Batman who lost his son seem far more mild.

Batman and Robin Eternal was Tynion's project - but Seeley clearly chose to use Steph and highlighted her in a way that other characters weren't (as he also did in Batman Eternal). And I did say that Steph was a dream image - but the fact that Seeley chose to include her I think is important in his view of her as part of the family. Did I say that Seeley thought Steph was as important to him as Damian? No.

Debating the writing process of the two Eternal series is kinda pointless. I read a ton of behind the scenes stuff, that indicated to me that Snyder took actual writing passes at the first three or four issues, and the finale issue for the first Eternal, and then was pretty hands off for the second one. And as I've said, I've had similar thoughts about Snyder myself. There's nowhere else to go on that subject.

There's a big difference between beating Freeze to a pulp and what Bruce did to Tim and Jason - because Freeze is a murderer, and Tim and Jason are his sons. And it's not like Bruce didn't beat criminals with extra brutality after Damian's death.

That Batman Annual Podcast with King supports the fact that the artist was told to fill in whatever character he could rather King explicitly including Robins.

He had to consult a cheat sheet to name who was there. When he was pressed on the whereabouts of Damian and Cass he then said that Damian was there. When he was confronted with the fact that no one there matched Damian's description he then claimed the Blonde guy was Damian. When asked why he had blonde hair he gave hat silly answer about working under cover.
For Cass he used that flimsy on a mission line.

I asked King personally at a con this year about that panel, and he said specifically that it was about the Robins (and Babs because of her connection to Bruce through Gordon and Dick). He didn't stumble on naming them. Additionally, I think the reason he had to use a sheet on the podcast is because he didn't have the issue in front of him.

Nonetheless, there's really nothing to be gained here. You think King doesn't care about Steph at all. I think you are incorrect.