Why does Marvel even bother with "lesser" titles?

[cyberhubbs]

In all fairness, and while I agree that video games and modern media are hard to compete with (despite their own issues), a lot of books from the 90s were simply selling because it was the 90s.

That audience doesn't exist anymore. In the 90 books like Darkhawk, Silver Sable and so on were midlist book selling like Iron Man or Captain America are currently selling. Now Captain America sells less than Cloak and Dagger in the 90s and books about minor character rarely sell enough to last. It's not Marvel's fault if videogames and movies are more dynamic and interactive than ever, we finally have high level serial art in tv shows, we can all bring computer in our pocket and so on. The world has changed, comic book are a less attractive entertainment medium that they were 20 years before, not due to the medium or the publishers but all the new option that arised.

[cray_ws]

That's 180 degrees opposite of what the shop owners I know say. They WANT fewer spin-offs and more title diversity.

Select shops maybe but the majority of dealers order every spin-off Marvel and DC put out because to them it's pretty much "guaranteed" sales. Most dealers have no restraint or any idea how much they can control what reaches the market or not. Too many dealers grew up reading Marvel and DC so they are fans more than business-people. You give a dealer an incentive like sneak peek of upcoming spin-off or a trinket like Wolverine's underwear....they'll bite. People don't get into selling comics to make money, they get into to it to get discounts on ordering books they like and selling the leftovers.

I'm not trying to bad mouth dealers, but the reality of it is 85% of dealers in US have never taken a business course. Those that have, are only scratching the surface of the potential of their shop.

[ShadowDemon]

That might be true, it depends on the shop owner and the local market. Readers often say the same thing but if that was true they would not keep buying the franchise titles.

It's not an "either/or" situation. Just because readers are buying Avengers but "waiting to see" about, say, Cloak & Dagger doesn't mean that they are only supporting franchises.

The all-important difference is, again, that readers are being conditioned NOT to try "lesser" titles right away by constantly having them yanked out from under them.

Shops can really only support what has the most potential for selling. They are not going to buy 100 copies of some brand new book just to support it unless there is some indicator it will sell.

Conversely, as the LCS guys I know keep saying, they aren't going to buy x number of copies of some brand new book unless they have some assurance that the book will still be there 18-24 issues down the road. They're sick of Marvel leaving them stuck out on the pointy end of complaints when a book just gets into it's groove with fans then vanishes like fog in sunshine.

[ShadowDemon]

The idea of more/less "important" books though, it's not Marvel's fault but of the stupid mindset of many readers.

Marvel feeds into that idea by heavily promoting "important" (usually franchise) books and not promoting the others.

[Mockingbird]

Because, despite a number of screw ups, the people in charge aren't stupid.

Sure, the smaller titles won't sell as many copies, but they get the attention of new readers in a way that a lot of the old ones don't and won't. The smaller titles and characters develop devoted fanbases that can get a lot of attention and, particularly recently, they seem to have noticed that it's a great way to get women reading comics, which is one of the fastest growing demographics when it comes to readers. Just read about the people who started reading comics with something like Captain Marvel or Black Widow and are branching out into other titles and enjoying them -- those are readers who would have probably never looked twice at any comics, let alone the main X-Men and Avengers comics if they hadn't seen something that really appealed to them first.

[ShadowDemon]

Because, despite a number of screw ups, the people in charge aren't stupid.

Sure, the smaller titles won't sell as many copies, but they get the attention of new readers in a way that a lot of the old ones don't and won't. The smaller titles and characters develop devoted fanbases that can get a lot of attention and, particularly recently, they seem to have noticed that it's a great way to get women reading comics, which is one of the fastest growing demographics when it comes to readers. Just read about the people who started reading comics with something like Captain Marvel or Black Widow and are branching out into other titles and enjoying them -- those are readers who would have probably never looked twice at any comics, let alone the main X-Men and Avengers comics if they hadn't seen something that really appealed to them first.

That's all the more reason to stick with B- and C-list comics for more than short runs, but Marvel doesn't. They're either slotted as minis or as ongoings that get suddenly cancelled. That's not going to bring in your CM or Widow (or Warriors, or C&D, or whoever) fans when they KNOW from experience that 4-6 months later they'll likely be SoL again.

[pageturner]

That's all the more reason to stick with B- and C-list comics for more than short runs, but Marvel doesn't. They're either slotted as minis or as ongoings that get suddenly cancelled. That's not going to bring in your CM or Widow (or Warriors, or C&D, or whoever) fans when they KNOW from experience that 4-6 months later they'll likely be SoL again.

Well than that is on them. Publishers are not going to launch with a 3 year commitment. If a character you like is having a book but you cannot be bothered to order it do not cry when it gets cut.

Publishers and stores want to make money they are going to produce or sell what they think will sell. If the order demand is low then they are not going to keep publishing or selling the book as a public service.

[ShadowDemon]

Well than that is on them. Publishers are not going to launch with a 3 year commitment. If a character you like is having a book but you cannot be bothered to order it do not cry when it gets cut.

Publishers and stores want to make money they are going to produce or sell what they think will sell. If the order demand is low then they are not going to keep publishing or selling the book as a public service.

Not as a public service, and I never said that, but with the understanding that they have a certain (correct) PR problem they need to overcome by demonstrating commitment to a title. Marvel in the past HAS stayed with books that struggled, making every effort to fix problems with them.

The current attitude is the exact opposite of that: if it isn't an instant hit, can it.

[Iron Maiden]

Does anyone else feel that the penchant for Marvel to use a lot of alternative style artists on the new titles tends to turn new readers off? She Hulk has not exactly taken off and June's sales figures are at 24,736. The artist for the last two issue was an extreme example. The relaunch of Ultimate FF has already been cancelled and the first 3 issues had two artists and numerous inkers listed which is probably a red flag right there. The July sales figures were 14,413. The writing IMO was not the problem. Sure is a far cry from when Marvel launched the Ultimate line and had some of their top talents attached to it.

[CliffHanger2]

Does anyone else feel that the penchant for Marvel to use a lot of alternative style artists on the new titles tends to turn new readers off? She Hulk has not exactly taken off and June's sales figures are at 24,736. The artist for the last two issue was an extreme example. The relaunch of Ultimate FF has already been cancelled and the first 3 issues had two artists and numerous inkers listed which is probably a red flag right there. The July sales figures were 14,413. The writing IMO was not the problem. Sure is a far cry from when Marvel launched the Ultimate line and had some of their top talents attached to it.

I don't mind it but I'm sure others do, it's sad sometime superhero fans can be so rigid in their taste when it comes to art. I would've checked out ultimate F.F but I can only afford so many comics at this point. But it's not even alternative sometimes it's just bad like Iron Patriot. I'm sure Marvel knows having a top artist on a book will push orders up, I'm surprised the new Cap book is getting Immomen.

[CliffHanger2]

Thats the Ellis effect. And MK has been a great collection of done in one few issues under his pen, so no foul even if I think that Aaron's run on Thor has been the most consistent run from Marvel in the Now! era.

But it does show a B-list character can get more orders than an A-lister if the names attached are big enough.

[Daymare]

Does anyone else feel that the penchant for Marvel to use a lot of alternative style artists on the new titles tends to turn new readers off? She Hulk has not exactly taken off and June's sales figures are at 24,736. The artist for the last two issue was an extreme example. The relaunch of Ultimate FF has already been cancelled and the first 3 issues had two artists and numerous inkers listed which is probably a red flag right there. The July sales figures were 14,413. The writing IMO was not the problem. Sure is a far cry from when Marvel launched the Ultimate line and had some of their top talents attached to it.

Surely it is a double-edged sword. They do not follow a house style anymore and that is great. Some of the comics have an old-school indie vibe to them. I personally love the fact they are trying new things. It does not help though if the style shifts in issues or if the art choices keep shifting in a title. Captain Marvel volume one is a prime example. The art was all over the place (almost all good) but it does hinder consistancy. Even new titles are having artists changes in the first few issues or arcs and this seems like a severe lack of planning or soliciting too early. It may degrade momentum if it is an on-the-fence title.
Cyclops is gaining word of mouth based on passionate writing as much as art and the artist is gone after issue 3.
Storm's art is getting good reviews and he already has a fill-in on issue 3. X-men is an art lovers nightmare...3 artists on a four issue arc. Uncanny has the right mix of unique and traditional. ANXM was brilliant on their main artist and having fill-ins that complimented. Sorry to bring up so many X-titles but they are all I really read Marvel-wise up to a few months ago.
The best thing I can say is that is does give new creator perspectives some visibility, seven if they move on to bigger titles from their start. Some of the more unique visions would be torn to shreds if they were put on a top-tier title by fans.
24000k, for a non-headline lead and a female led comic this is actually a really solid number, for the current cover price I bet this is a win for Marvel and a win for sure for She-Hulk fans. Nice. .

[Mister Mets]

Even if a title is cancelled, we get some interesting material out of it. Marvel may get material they're able to sell years later in other forms. See Nextwave.

In some cases, a title may have a specific goal or be tied to a character's prominence in an event book/ film (see the Rocket Raccoon and Starlord monthlies.)

But they also don't know for sure which books will do poorly. Sometimes they'll have something that makes money, and gets good reviews. The difference between a Hawkeye and a Morbius isn't always clear.

[Daymare]

It's not an "either/or" situation. Just because readers are buying Avengers but "waiting to see" about, say, Cloak & Dagger doesn't mean that they are only supporting franchises.

The all-important difference is, again, that readers are being conditioned NOT to try "lesser" titles right away by constantly having them yanked out from under them.



Conversely, as the LCS guys I know keep saying, they aren't going to buy x number of copies of some brand new book unless they have some assurance that the book will still be there 18-24 issues down the road. They're sick of Marvel leaving them stuck out on the pointy end of complaints when a book just gets into it's groove with fans then vanishes like fog in sunshine.

As odd as it sounds, Figment is a prime example of this. It was a great read, great art, and an all-ages title yet you could not find it anywhere around here. Many of my LCS' s have had to order it multiple times because they only feel safe ordering a very small number, yet they sell out every time and the actual sales for the issue were abysmal because of that worry. This could have been a sleeper hit but it had nothing attached to for them to bank on...it really is just a fun book and a limited series. While itbisv great to see comics go to multiple printings it is actually due to low initial sales and lack of preorders rather than just a huge market.
I get it though. This is their livelihood and in all honesty it does not take much to have another Deathmate on your hands in such a volatile marketplace.

[Iron Maiden]

Even if a title is cancelled, we get some interesting material out of it. Marvel may get material they're able to sell years later in other forms. See Nextwave.

In some cases, a title may have a specific goal or be tied to a character's prominence in an event book/ film (see the Rocket Raccoon and Starlord monthlies.)

But they also don't know for sure which books will do poorly. Sometimes they'll have something that makes money, and gets good reviews. The difference between a Hawkeye and a Morbius isn't always clear.

Another example of that is Superior Foes of Spider-Man. The estimated numbers show that it is around the 17,000 mark for monthly sales and it is still being solicited for October.

The unknown quantity is how many digital sales they get from any given title. Marvel never releases it and sites like IGN and the Beat will not be able to make estimates on those figures.