Why does Marvel even bother with "lesser" titles?

[cyberhubbs]

Does anyone else feel that the penchant for Marvel to use a lot of alternative style artists on the new titles tends to turn new readers off? She Hulk has not exactly taken off and June's sales figures are at 24,736. The artist for the last two issue was an extreme example. The relaunch of Ultimate FF has already been cancelled and the first 3 issues had two artists and numerous inkers listed which is probably a red flag right there. The July sales figures were 14,413. The writing IMO was not the problem. Sure is a far cry from when Marvel launched the Ultimate line and had some of their top talents attached to it.

With the Ultimates, they were also pretty much offering popular mainstays. But it all depends on how much the artists and the writers cost. Lieber is relatively cheap, hence why he can afford to be on a book like Superior Foes, even if the title ends up making him a sorta-household name. It's cost-effective and everybody has to start somewhere near the bottom.

[VJ.]

Another example of that is Superior Foes of Spider-Man. The estimated numbers show that it is around the 17,000 mark for monthly sales and it is still being solicited for October.

The unknown quantity is how many digital sales they get from any given title. Marvel never releases it and sites like IGN and the Beat will not be able to make estimates on those figures.

Comixology also surely knows - titles are often rumoured to be doing well digitally & that must come from comixology numbers, surely.

[pageturner]

With the Ultimates, they were also pretty much offering popular mainstays. But it all depends on how much the artists and the writers cost. Lieber is relatively cheap, hence why he can afford to be on a book like Superior Foes, even if the title ends up making him a sorta-household name. It's cost-effective and everybody has to start somewhere near the bottom.

I heard Len Wein state that writers make $ 100 - 250 per page and artists $250 - $500 per page. So a team being paid on the low end of the scale can have a book sell a little less I suppose. THe big names must need to clear 25k or have big digital numbers to last.

[pageturner]

Comixology also surely knows - titles are often rumoured to be doing well digitally & that must come from comixology numbers, surely.

They do list a best sellers list so if a book you like is on there I suppose you can take that as good sign. Not exact date but something to hold on to.

[VJ.]

They do list a best sellers list so if a book you like is on there I suppose you can take that as good sign. Not exact date but something to hold on to.

Yeah, I remember ms. Marvel #1 making headlines for being top of it for a while in the week it came out. My point was I suspect rumours of that series (and others) continuing to sell well digitally come from them in some way and not Marvel.

[pageturner]

Yeah, I remember ms. Marvel #1 making headlines for being top of it for a while in the week it came out. My point was I suspect rumours of that series (and others) continuing to sell well digitally come from them in some way and not Marvel.

Yeah but they must report those numbers to the publishers, or the publishers must have some way to track them so they get paid their share. I would imagine Comixology can only report them if the publishers give the ok.

[VJ.]

Yeah but they must report those numbers to the publishers, or the publishers must have some way to track them so they get paid their share. I would imagine Comixology can only report them if the publishers give the ok.

That's true, I don't think comixology would put out anything official (except their best-sellers list), but they're a much smaller company* and it's probably much harder to keep things like conversations like "x is selling well" totally private in that environment if personal experience is anything to go by.

*well, until they were bought by Amazon, but they're still largely independent in may ways.

[Zero Hunter]

Does anyone else feel that the penchant for Marvel to use a lot of alternative style artists on the new titles tends to turn new readers off? She Hulk has not exactly taken off and June's sales figures are at 24,736. The artist for the last two issue was an extreme example. The relaunch of Ultimate FF has already been cancelled and the first 3 issues had two artists and numerous inkers listed which is probably a red flag right there. The July sales figures were 14,413. The writing IMO was not the problem. Sure is a far cry from when Marvel launched the Ultimate line and had some of their top talents attached to it.

I do think this is a problem. I am all for giving new styles a try, but it does not make sense to try them out on titles that are going to a have a hard time taking off in the first place. Try them out on the big titles that are going to sell regardless and save the more tried and true artists for the book that really need that extra little padding to get going. A weaker title would be helped a lot more with big name talent on it then say a book like Avengers or X-Men would. People are in alot of cases going to buy those books regardless.

[cyberhubbs]

I heard Len Wein state that writers make $ 100 - 250 per page and artists $250 - $500 per page. So a team being paid on the low end of the scale can have a book sell a little less I suppose. THe big names must need to clear 25k or have big digital numbers to last.

Nextwave is a perfect example. Despite it being a gloriously fun book, it ended up not selling well enough to afford Immonen. And thus Ellis decided to drop the book instead.

[cyberhubbs]

I do think this is a problem. I am all for giving new styles a try, but it does not make sense to try them out on titles that are going to a have a hard time taking off in the first place. Try them out on the big titles that are going to sell regardless and save the more tried and true artists for the book that really need that extra little padding to get going. A weaker title would be helped a lot more with big name talent on it then say a book like Avengers or X-Men would. People are in alot of cases going to buy those books regardless.

Think of it as a big budget movie. You want to be able to say, "Hey! Arnold Killsalot, famed action hero, is gonna do what he does best and kill a lot! Tell your friends!"

You want to maximize the big-sellers. C-listers, while enjoyable, have smaller fan bases that really aren't gonna grow. They're niche characters in a niche market.

[pageturner]

Think of it as a big budget movie. You want to be able to say, "Hey! Arnold Killsalot, famed action hero, is gonna do what he does best and kill a lot! Tell your friends!"

You want to maximize the big-sellers. C-listers, while enjoyable, have smaller fan bases that really aren't gonna grow. They're niche characters in a niche market.

I think MA and Loki benefit from having a good writer who is not an industry big name yet and does not command a bigger page rate. The books do not have to be breakout best sellers.

[pageturner]

That's true, I don't think comixology would put out anything official (except their best-sellers list), but they're a much smaller company* and it's probably much harder to keep things like conversations like "x is selling well" totally private in that environment if personal experience is anything to go by.

*well, until they were bought by Amazon, but they're still largely independent in may ways.

I agree there might be good reason why they don't report I suppose. If it is a much smaller number than print it looks insignificant and if it is close to the print number it could hurt the print side of things.

Also with deals that pop up (for example I just bought 1-18 of A+X for less than 18.00) those are units sold but not for the cover price.

[Zero Hunter]

Think of it as a big budget movie. You want to be able to say, "Hey! Arnold Killsalot, famed action hero, is gonna do what he does best and kill a lot! Tell your friends!"

You want to maximize the big-sellers. C-listers, while enjoyable, have smaller fan bases that really aren't gonna grow. They're niche characters in a niche market.

That is the point though. Marvel wants to build up their B and C list characters to make them viable movie or TV projects and to do that you use your big names. A big event book does not need the big names to sell. They sell just because of what they are and the hype and build up they get. The pay off for even getting one lower tier character or concept built up is worth way more in the long run than just whatever the current "big" thing is.

Daredevil was a character that was in the toilet for years. Then marvel put Bendis and other big name talent on it and it took off. Same with Captain America, the Avengers, Thor, and Iron Man. They used the big names to build the properties back up. Now the problem is all the big name writers and artists want to write the books with movies to raise their own value.

[RobinFan4880]

It is Marvel's fault if Marvel actually made commercials to advertise their comics, instead of just advertising when they have gimmicks like female Thor's or black Captain America more people would read them. There is no one to blame but Marvel!!! Also if they would actually take the time and make events good and not feel like a waste of time and money, maybe they would also have more satisfied customers.

I would also say something about their art like She-Hulk but some people might actually like the art so whatever.

Commercials are expensive and the margins too tight on B-list character's books to justify that kind of expenditure.

All the stuff we've seen with Thor and Cap are directly tied to the fact that news companies independently pursued the issue of their own volition.

[RobinFan4880]

I agree there might be good reason why they don't report I suppose. If it is a much smaller number than print it looks insignificant and if it is close to the print number it could hurt the print side of things.

Also with deals that pop up (for example I just bought 1-18 of A+X for less than 18.00) those are units sold but not for the cover price.

it is the Steam model of business - you eventually provide a price point for every consumer who is interested in the product. As has been proven over and over again, the model generates orders of magnitude more money for companies than the traditional model of keeping all products at a static price point.