Joaquin Phoenix to Play Joker

[AJBopp]

Your confusing han with starwars I'm saying joker is more popular than that person not the movies but I would say Batman over all is probably a bigger deal than starwars.

I could see a Venn diagram being drawn in which there's a circle for Star Wars, and a circle for Batman, and where they intersect it leans heavily into Batman. But I think the Star Wars circle is much larger than the Batman circle.

There have been exactly 3 live action movies (not counting 66) in which Joker has appeared. That may be changing with Joker solo movies now underway. But his appearance in those movies do not, I think, really approach the financial success or cultural impact of Han Solo in any of his 8 appearances.

[choptop]

There have been exactly 3 live action movies (not counting 66) in which Joker has appeared. That may be changing with Joker solo movies now underway. But his appearance in those movies do not, I think, really approach the financial success or cultural impact of Han Solo in any of his 8 appearances.

Really? I'd definitely disagree joker in Batman 89 and in 08 were a bigger deal even the new guy was talked about more than the new han.

[Midvillian1322]

That seems rather pointless, doesn't it? Do a Joker movie about a character who is not recognizable as the Joker?

Name recognition and to make momey. everything about Jokers character can be altered. But as long as he physically looks like a version of the Joker the average moviegoer wont really know what they changed about his personality and motives. Same reason you do elseworld storys in the comics. But yea maybe you thought I meant unrecognizable physically. Of course not hes gotta have the Joker look. I'm talking about characterization.

[AJBopp]

Really? I'd definitely disagree joker in Batman 89 and in 08 were a bigger deal even the new guy was talked about more than the new han.

Nah. Han was a much bigger deal in the OT than is generally understood today. Bigger than Luke by a long shot. And one of the biggest and most persistent knocks on the prequels was the lack of a Han Solo-ish character that was sorely needed.

[AJBopp]

Name recognition and to make momey. everything about Jokers character can be altered. But as long as he physically looks like a version of the Joker the average moviegoer wont really know what they changed about his personality and motives. Same reason you do elseworld storys in the comics. But yea maybe you thought I meant unrecognizable physically. Of course not hes gotta have the Joker look. I'm talking about characterization.

There are other characteristics that I think you can't do without than physical. Maniacal pointless violence, just for the sake of causing it for example.

I guess my biggest difficulty is that rarely in comics, and never in the movies, has anyone other than Batman been able to take down Joker. That being the case, how does this movie come to any sort of sensible resolution? How does it end in a way that is satisfying and true to both Joker and to Batman?

I just can't see this being something the general audience will want to get invested in.

[Alan2099]

Name recognition and to make momey. everything about Jokers character can be altered. But as long as he physically looks like a version of the Joker the average moviegoer wont really know what they changed about his personality and motives. Same reason you do elseworld storys in the comics. But yea maybe you thought I meant unrecognizable physically. Of course not hes gotta have the Joker look. I'm talking about characterization.

That reminds me of something ...

[Midvillian1322]

There are other characteristics that I think you can't do without than physical. Maniacal pointless violence, just for the sake of causing it for example.

I guess my biggest difficulty is that rarely in comics, and never in the movies, has anyone other than Batman been able to take down Joker. That being the case, how does this movie come to any sort of sensible resolution? How does it end in a way that is satisfying and true to both Joker and to Batman?

I just can't see this being something the general audience will want to get invested in.

I think they make you route for Joker. He'll probably only embrace his darker urges and surrender to insanity at the end of the film. So whomever the antagonist is, they are gonna be the worst kinda evil. So when joker snaps and does something joker esque to the antagonist we cheer for him. Yea it ends with him now being broken and finding himself in insanity and chaos. But alot of movies have tragic endings. But you can take the edge off by having joker do his thing on the worst kinda person.

[AJBopp]

I think they make you route for Joker. He'll probably only embrace his darker urges and surrender to insanity at the end of the film. So whomever the antagonist is, they are gonna be the worst kinda evil. So when joker snaps and does something joker esque to the antagonist we cheer for him. Yea it ends with him now being broken and finding himself in insanity and chaos. But alot of movies have tragic endings. But you can take the edge off by having joker do his thing on the worst kinda person.

That implies the Joker as a tragic character, someone we are supposed to feel sympathy for, something like the fates were against him and ohhhhh, how sad.

Maybe that will work for many people, but to me that's not true to the character or satisfying as a story. Joker is a force of nature, evil incarnate, and I don't particularly see the fascination of seeing him humanized.

[choptop]

Nah. Han was a much bigger deal in the OT than is generally understood today. Bigger than Luke by a long shot. And one of the biggest and most persistent knocks on the prequels was the lack of a Han Solo-ish character that was sorely needed.

That was back in the day tho wean every thing star was was the best thing ever I don't think he has the same standing as joker popularity wise as he use to.

[AJBopp]

That was back in the day tho wean every thing star was was the best thing ever I don't think he has the same standing as joker popularity wise as he use to.

Yes I was primarily thinking of movies 10-30 years ago. IMO comparing Suicide Squad to Solo is a little more dicey because they both underperformed, but between those two Joker seems to have a clear advantage. Not ready to give the title to him just yet though.

[choptop]

Yes I was primarily thinking of movies 10-30 years ago. IMO comparing Suicide Squad to Solo is a little more dicey because they both underperformed, but between those two Joker seems to have a clear advantage. Not ready to give the title to him just yet though.

Right I get what you're saying.

[choptop]

That implies the Joker as a tragic character, someone we are supposed to feel sympathy for, something like the fates were against him and ohhhhh, how sad.

Maybe that will work for many people, but to me that's not true to the character or satisfying as a story. Joker is a force of nature, evil incarnate, and I don't particularly see the fascination of seeing him humanized.

You didn't feel sorry for him in The Killing Joke?

[AJBopp]

You didn't feel sorry for him in The Killing Joke?

Of course not.

It also ended with Batman catching him.

[choptop]

Of course not.

It also ended with Batman catching him.

I did the it's to late line is very sad.

[batnbreakfast]

The movie could be an "inofficial" prequel of the Heath Ledger version (10th year anniversary and all that) and have not much to do with the comic book version. It seems they are casting Joker's mom and she's not in the Killing Joke from what I remember. Not even in Azzarello's Joker GN. Deadpool has worked out fine, Venom might well work out as well, why is there so little enthusiasm for this? Why does a movie have to be about a hero? If Joker goes up against someone even worse than him it would make him a kind of hero in context.