Wonder Woman vs. Doomsday: Death of Superman: Major Disappointment

[Titan Theo]

SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS

The good:

Wonder Woman lasts longer than any other Justice League member, other than Superman, obviously.

The bad:

Once again, although this is a Superman movie, they make the Justice League look very ineffective. No team work, and NONE of them, other than tearing Doomsday's outfit, did any damage to Doomsday. WW's sword was unable to penetrate Doomsday's skin (WTF). I know this is a problem for the writers because it gives the possibility for Diana to do serious injury to Doomsday as well but they could have handled it differently. Why can Superman injure him, but not WW; the combined effort of the JL should have injured Doomsday to say the very least. They could have shown Diana injuring him but did not even dent him considering the beating she also gave him. This reminds of the Justice League vs Superman..argh...I did not expect WW to win, but at least injure him, and so disappointing that the entire league could take on Darkseid and parademons, and they had no team effort here. Good action scenes, poor writing, esp the battle part. So Doomsday, hence, is I guess also invulnerable to magical attacks, and only a fellow Kryptonian can injure him. If you put Flash, GL, MM, Batman, Aquaman and Hawkman in one body -- or a team -- don't you think that's more powerful than Superman alone? DC seems to be bent in showing Superman is it, and I have no problem with that; my issue here is they always seem to do it at the expense of others.

TT

TT

[Vanguard-01]

The League always looks ineffective against Doomsday. They did the same thing in the Death of Superman comic. Doomsday tore right through the League. It was how they raised the stakes to get Superman to realize that the only way to stop this monster was to not hold back against him.

Diana wasn't with the League at that battle in the comics, though. She missed the entire Death of Superman story because she was not on Earth at the time.

[AmiMizuno]

Also what would you aspect in new 52 movies? Diana is a violence person sometimes in those new 52 movies

[richalex]

I didn't have a problem with how any of the battle happened. Hell, this League did better than the Ice/Fire/Maxima/Blue&Gold/Bloodwynn/Guy League. And Diana being the last one standing and telling Clark that he needs to go all out worked for me.

What I did have a problem with is that we didn't see Diana and Clark Break up, though I guess i'm glad they showed them as friends regardless. However the whole Lois and Clark thing was meh.

This version of the story was much better than the last time they tried to do it.

[richalex]

Double Post for some reason.

[RealWonderman]

When did Clark and Diana break up in the DCAU? How is he all the sudden with Lois?

[AmiMizuno]

Probably in between movies

[Heavunion]

The League always looks ineffective against Doomsday. They did the same thing in the Death of Superman comic. Doomsday tore right through the League. It was how they raised the stakes to get Superman to realize that the only way to stop this monster was to not hold back against him.

Diana wasn't with the League at that battle in the comics, though. She missed the entire Death of Superman story because she was not on Earth at the time.

I think the problem is that it seems they didn't adapt the material, can only assume since I didn't watched the animated movie. In the original comics, it makes sense the Justice League barely put a scratch on Doomsday as they are good but not the top you can find.

By putting the true Justice League this time, you cannot just have the same scenario plays out and Doomsday should've been at the very least injured.

But I will disagree with the OP that it is B.S that only Superman can win. Sure, against Wonder Woman, it's close because she is a true warrior that moves. But against Doomsday, Superman is perfectly to lands his punches or the heat vision or the ice breath and is the perfect package you need to put down Doomsday

[brettc1]

When did Clark and Diana break up in the DCAU? How is he all the sudden with Lois?

They probably broke up when Diana looked over one day and realised Steve Trevor had been there the whole time

[Stanlos]

SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS

The good:

Wonder Woman lasts longer than any other Justice League member, other than Superman, obviously.

The bad:

Once again, although this is a Superman movie, they make the Justice League look very ineffective. No team work, and NONE of them, other than tearing Doomsday's outfit, did any damage to Doomsday. WW's sword was unable to penetrate Doomsday's skin (WTF). I know this is a problem for the writers because it gives the possibility for Diana to do serious injury to Doomsday as well but they could have handled it differently. Why can Superman injure him, but not WW; the combined effort of the JL should have injured Doomsday to say the very least. They could have shown Diana injuring him but did not even dent him considering the beating she also gave him. This reminds of the Justice League vs Superman..argh...I did not expect WW to win, but at least injure him, and so disappointing that the entire league could take on Darkseid and parademons, and they had no team effort here. Good action scenes, poor writing, esp the battle part. So Doomsday, hence, is I guess also invulnerable to magical attacks, and only a fellow Kryptonian can injure him. If you put Flash, GL, MM, Batman, Aquaman and Hawkman in one body -- or a team -- don't you think that's more powerful than Superman alone? DC seems to be bent in showing Superman is it, and I have no problem with that; my issue here is they always seem to do it at the expense of others.

TT

TT

Thanks so much, Teddy, for the summary! I had EXTREME doubts about the project once I learned it was going to use the Big 7 version of the League which just doesn't work without a jobberthon. Given how the new animated team has treated WW I expected what you described here. I will get the Thor Ragnarok film instead. Thanks, T!

[Titan Theo]

To be fair, it's not that I did not enjoy the fight scenes, it's just poorly written in my opinion.

First, the entire Justice League other than Superman (WW, MM, GL, Hawkman, Flash & Batman) were there. Batman could have definitely or MM reached Superman faster, and I seriously doubt that Doomsday would have beaten WW, MM and GL alone, let alone with Flash and Batman strategizing.

Two, WW's sword should have never been broken, period. She could also have used her lasso to whack him (but then again they may have written DD to break it too). I have NO problem WW losing to Doomsday given the right circumstances. For example, the way he was able to beat MM hunter was lucky but acceptable to me. So now Superman's punches to Doomsday can do more damage to Doomsday than WW's sword (not to underestimate Superman's strength) but WW sword is supposed to be so magically sharp that in Kingdom Come Supes just touching it nicked him...

[brettc1]

To be fair, it's not that I did not enjoy the fight scenes, it's just poorly written in my opinion.

First, the entire Justice League other than Superman (WW, MM, GL, Hawkman, Flash & Batman) were there. Batman could have definitely or MM reached Superman faster, and I seriously doubt that Doomsday would have beaten WW, MM and GL alone, let alone with Flash and Batman strategizing.

Two, WW's sword should have never been broken, period. She could also have used her lasso to whack him (but then again they may have written DD to break it too). I have NO problem WW losing to Doomsday given the right circumstances. For example, the way he was able to beat MM hunter was lucky but acceptable to me. So now Superman's punches to Doomsday can do more damage to Doomsday than WW's sword (not to underestimate Superman's strength) but WW sword is supposed to be so magically sharp that in Kingdom Come Supes just touching it nicked him...

Bottom line, the story as it first appeared requires that only Superman be able to stop this guy. If Diana COULD beat him, then the obvious question becomes why didn't she?

I've seen this complaint about WW V DD many times now. Their two encounters during that whole Superman/Wonder Woman fiasco were both ones that left bad tastes in many folks mouths and if you want you can dig up the threads and check them out.


Ultimately the only one I found statisfying was, coincidentally, the one best known by most people in the wider audience - the fight in BVS. In that one Diana not only played a powerful and pivotal role but also pretty much saved the whole movie. A lot of Superfans were outaged by that rendering of the overall fight from Superman's point of view.

[Sacred Knight]

Its just the one natural pitfall of having the A-team League present in this story. You don't, as it happened in the original story, and no one gets showed up except the JLI B-team, but you lose virtually any emotional beats from that angle as no teammate that he's close to is present. Do it this way, and you get the emotional reaction of the teammates he's close friends with, but by nature they all have to get blown past as the point of the story is that Doomsday is a creature of such brute strength that only Superman, the strongest being on the planet, can put it down. Its pick your poison, really. Diana losing but at least lasting a little bit is the best that can be done when you choose this scenario.

If you put Flash, GL, MM, Batman, Aquaman and Hawkman in one body -- or a team -- don't you think that's more powerful than Superman alone?

Honestly...no. (well, the one body thing maybe, if Fusion existed in the DCU, but just everyone working together, no). That's always been the case, and that's why even in the earliest days of the Justice League writers struggled to find contrivances to put Superman out of action or otherwise occupied early so the rest of the team could shine.

You only have so many options with the League and Superman. One, you just don't have him on the team, period. Two, you nerf him in the verse. Three, you have him on the team but think up of said contrivances to have him AFK till a pivotal moment. For me, two is the only unacceptable option.

[Rightoya]

Honestly...no. (well, the one body thing maybe, if Fusion existed in the DCU, but just everyone working together, no). That's always been the case, and that's why even in the earliest days of the Justice League writers struggled to find contrivances to put Superman out of action or otherwise occupied early so the rest of the team could shine.

Wait what?
Outside of some absolutely terrible fan service versions of Supes should Flash, GL, MM, Batman, Aquaman and Hawkman together easily mop the floor with him without jobbing, add in Diana and it gets even more one-sided.

You only have so many options with the League and Superman. One, you just don't have him on the team, period. Two, you nerf him in the verse. Three, you have him on the team but think up of said contrivances to have him AFK till a pivotal moment. For me, two is the only unacceptable option.

If option two honestly just means to make Supes less powerful than Flash, GL, MM, Batman, Aquaman and Hawkman if not even with Diana together then plz nerf him hard DC, such a ridiculous lvl of Super Mary Sue was maybe in the Silver Age bearable(it wasn't even rly always the case there though) but such disrespectful **** for the rest of the JL should be not even debatable in the Modern Age anymore(yeah i know the DCEU pretty much just did that again, but it's not like as if JL was a good example for how to make a movie or good writing by any means).

[Stanlos]

Its just the one natural pitfall of having the A-team League present in this story. You don't, as it happened in the original story, and no one gets showed up except the JLI B-team, but you lose virtually any emotional beats from that angle as no teammate that he's close to is present. Do it this way, and you get the emotional reaction of the teammates he's close friends with, but by nature they all have to get blown past as the point of the story is that Doomsday is a creature of such brute strength that only Superman, the strongest being on the planet, can put it down. Its pick your poison, really. Diana losing but at least lasting a little bit is the best that can be done when you choose this scenario.


Honestly...no. (well, the one body thing maybe, if Fusion existed in the DCU, but just everyone working together, no). That's always been the case, and that's why even in the earliest days of the Justice League writers struggled to find contrivances to put Superman out of action or otherwise occupied early so the rest of the team could shine.

You only have so many options with the League and Superman. One, you just don't have him on the team, period. Two, you nerf him in the verse. Three, you have him on the team but think up of said contrivances to have him AFK till a pivotal moment. For me, two is the only unacceptable option.

I found the original story to have no shortage of emotional heft. The writers of the original story did a fantastic job with the dramatic elements and the heroism of the League. Ice, Booster, Beetle, Guy, and even Maxima provided plenty of that. The story does not work with the Big 7 absent a jobber aura in the EXTREME.