Wonder Woman vs. Doomsday: Death of Superman: Major Disappointment

[Gaelforce]

Okay, folks, please note that this is a family friendly forum and foul language is prohibited.

This includes vulgar British slang as well as the standard four letter fare.

I'm not sure why it is that several of you suddenly felt the need to spam this thread with a particular word, but I don't want to see it again.

[RepHope]

My final thoughts on this are that because it was a Superman solo movie he got to shine as the star and show off his abilities. If he shows up in Bloodlines and makes Wondy look weak I will be furious, even as a Superman fan. If DC makes another Flash movie and has Reverse-Flash KO the League on his own like he's done on occasion I won't complain at all. Because while it's ok for the League to show up and help, the final victory should belong to the star hero. WW should beat Cheetah or whoever on her own in her movie.

[Titan Theo]

Superman died fighting DD alone, and the rest of the league finished him off.

lol

[brettc1]

Thor IS insanely OP you have no clue what you’re talking about. Thanos literally said Thor had aimed for his head, he would have died. Also you have Hulk in the original Avengers making Loki look like a joke. JL flopped because Snyder’s a terrible director and Whedon had to do a rush job to try to salvage it. It was a terrible movie before Supes showed up and it was terrible afterwards.

Oh I have EVERY clue, sir. If I had any more clues I could tell where to find Jimmy Hoffa's body.

Did Thanos die? No, he did not. Instead with an axe in his chest he still triggered the gauntlet because Thor got in one good hit. Compare that to Superman pretty much being able to beat Steppenwolf and his Para-demons single handed and the case is made.

Nobody has to nerf Thor in the books because he is damn tough but he is not ridonculously hyped up with every power of the entire Avengers team and then some. The Hulk is actually potentially stronger, but of course he cannot fly or summon lightning. Thor can do both of those, but he can't move faster than Quicksilver or bench press an entire planet for five days. And when he gets blasted by the full burn of a neutron star he actually gets hurt, (which only makes him more impressive frankly)

So yeah, if as folks have freely admitted on this very thread they often have to find excuses why Superman can't do the whole mission by himself, then he is dramatically over-powered. Or Diana and Martian Manhunter are getting jobbed.

Usually both

[_Beautiful_Temptress_]

Diana in DOS did what she couldn't do in New 52: fight Doomsday more time. In New 52, Doomsday easily defeated her. And it's a shame for a warrior like Diana. And longer than any other Justice League member before Superman came to the rescue. Superman saved Diana from Doomsday, and that's not right. And that she and JL didn't come to help Superman defeat Doomsday. I understand that Batman and Hal don't have fast regeneration and without super powers, but Diana, Arthur, Flash, Hawkman and MM could help.

[Agent Z]

Thor IS insanely OP you have no clue what you’re talking about. Thanos literally said Thor had aimed for his head, he would have died. Also you have Hulk in the original Avengers making Loki look like a joke. JL flopped because Snyder’s a terrible director and Whedon had to do a rush job to try to salvage it. It was a terrible movie before Supes showed up and it was terrible afterwards.

Whedon is perfectly capable of making a bad movie without anyone's help.

[Agent Z]

Oh I have EVERY clue, sir. If I had any more clues I could tell where to find Jimmy Hoffa's body.

Did Thanos die? No, he did not. Instead with an axe in his chest he still triggered the gauntlet because Thor got in one good hit. Compare that to Superman pretty much being able to beat Steppenwolf and his Para-demons single handed and the case is made.

Nobody has to nerf Thor in the books because he is damn tough but he is not ridonculously hyped up with every power of the entire Avengers team and then some. The Hulk is actually potentially stronger, but of course he cannot fly or summon lightning. Thor can do both of those, but he can't move faster than Quicksilver or bench press an entire planet for five days. And when he gets blasted by the full burn of a neutron star he actually gets hurt, (which only makes him more impressive frankly)

So yeah, if as folks have freely admitted on this very thread they often have to find excuses why Superman can't do the whole mission by himself, then he is dramatically over-powered. Or Diana and Martian Manhunter are getting jobbed.

Usually both

Thor has tagged Quickslilver at least once if I recall correctly and it's been implied he holds back a lot of his power.

[Agent Z]

Oh I have EVERY clue, sir. If I had any more clues I could tell where to find Jimmy Hoffa's body.

Did Thanos die? No, he did not. Instead with an axe in his chest he still triggered the gauntlet because Thor got in one good hit. Compare that to Superman pretty much being able to beat Steppenwolf and his Para-demons single handed and the case is made.

Nobody has to nerf Thor in the books because he is damn tough but he is not ridonculously hyped up with every power of the entire Avengers team and then some. The Hulk is actually potentially stronger, but of course he cannot fly or summon lightning. Thor can do both of those, but he can't move faster than Quicksilver or bench press an entire planet for five days. And when he gets blasted by the full burn of a neutron star he actually gets hurt, (which only makes him more impressive frankly)

So yeah, if as folks have freely admitted on this very thread they often have to find excuses why Superman can't do the whole mission by himself, then he is dramatically over-powered. Or Diana and Martian Manhunter are getting jobbed.

Usually both

Thor has tagged Quickslilver at least once if I recall correctly and it's been implied he holds back a lot of his power.

[Shadowedeyes]

To be fair, hitting someone and moving as fast as them isn't exactly the same thing. Flash has been tagged by a lot of people who are definitely not as fast as him.

[SiegePerilous02]

Did Thanos die? No, he did not. Instead with an axe in his chest he still triggered the gauntlet because Thor got in one good hit. Compare that to Superman pretty much being able to beat Steppenwolf and his Para-demons single handed and the case is made.

Thanos was a dead man walking. All it took was one blow. Had he not had the Gauntlet, that would have been it, and Thor was perfectly capable of killing him instantly with a blow to the head, but he made the mistake of not doing it. Superman knocked Steppenwolf around but didn't take him out. Wonder Woman and Aquaman's blows from their weapons caused him more physical pain.

There isn't much difference here. Thor could have defeated the Big Bad all by himself, the fact that he didn't was down to a mistake that had nothing to do with his power level in comparison to the other Avengers.

[SiegePerilous02]

Whedon is perfectly capable of making a bad movie without anyone's help.

Yeah, but I think if Whedon had been allowed to make a movie from the ground up that was completely his, we would have ended up with a better result. I don't see how it couldn't be.

[VonHammersmark]

Thor leaped out of nowhere and struck Thanos with a specially-made battle axe, forged from Uru by a Giant Dwarf in the heart of a dying star, said to be the strongest weapon ever made. He didn’t toy with Thanos with a smug grin on his face - “is this guy still bothering you, LOLZ” - “can you guys hold him off for a second while I go and save some civilians, I’ll be back in a jiffy, try not to die okay. Not that anyone would notice, it's all about me, me me me me me me me and only me me..."

[SiegePerilous02]

Thor leaped out of nowhere and struck Thanos with a special battle axe, forged from Uru by a Giant Dwarf in the heart of a dying star, said to be the strongest weapon ever made. He didn’t toy with Thanos with a smug grin on his face - “is this guy still bothering you, LOLZ” - “can you guys hold him off for a second while I go and save some civilians, I’ll be back in a jiffy, try not to die okay, not that anyone would notice, all eyez are on me, me me me me me me me and only me me..."

And yet, none of that seems to have bothered the GA that much, whose opinions are the ones that really matter when it comes these films. Everyone in my theater liked those moments, and general buzz is that audiences loved Superman and Wonder Woman, and little else.

Or really hurt the brands of the other characters. The movie was doing that just fine on its own before Supes even showed up, and it isn't preventing WW84 or Aquaman from getting made.

[VonHammersmark]

All I'm saying is comparing Thor and Superman is like comparing apples to oranges

[DochaDocha]

I see I'm late for the party.

Well, I guess you could say WW did about as reasonably well in the fight as you could expect anyone not named "Superman" would in a retelling of "DoS." She was going to lose conclusively. My argument, of course, is don't keep retelling "DoS."

From a narrative perspective, I did like how she told Superman that he couldn't hold anything back. Just says something about the characters' knowledge of one another. That's not really here nor there about this particular discussion, though.