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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member Silvermoth's Avatar
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    Default Fantastic Four and Archnemeses

    Hi everyone,

    So Iíve been thinking about the fantastic four and their archnemeses lately. Obviously doom is the teamís archnemesis. I kind of like the idea of each member having their own nemesis though similar to how cyclops has Vulcan, wolverine sabretooth, storm Callisto etc.

    Ok so Reed and the mad thinker, Iíve always liked because I think if reed ever turned evil thatís who he would be. Reed symbolises all thatís good about science and the mad thinker represents its potential crueler side. Obviously doom is also his archnemesis.

    Susan, I remember Medusa was kind of set up as Sueís nemesis with the first frightful four. I donít think thatís really applicable anymore though because you couldnít call Medusa a criminal anymore.

    No idea with Johnny and the thing. What do you think?

  2. #2
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    While Doom is a threat to the entire team his motivation is revolved around Reed.

    So Reed has Doom, Mad Thinker, and Wizard (who was Johnny's when first created but that quickly changed), and maybe Namor whenever they're fighting over Sue.

    The others don't really have any which is a shame.
    Last edited by Crimz; 07-28-2018 at 05:14 PM.
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  3. #3
    Mighty Member Kaijudo's Avatar
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    If the Thing had anyone, it'd probably be the Hulk.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silvermoth View Post

    Ok so Reed and the mad thinker, I’ve always liked because I think if reed ever turned evil that’s who he would be. Reed symbolises all that’s good about science and the mad thinker represents its potential crueler side. Obviously doom is also his archnemesis.
    I think in that conflict, Richards represents creativity and the human spirit, and Thinker represents cold calculation. Thinker can absolutely predict and prep around everything purely physical, everything that can be understood mathematically. Yet the FF win anyway because they can be creative, and thematically because they have human souls that transcend the purely scientific.

    Also, I think many, including some writers, misunderstand the Doom/Fantastic Four conflict. It's not Doom vs Reed. It's Doom and his Doombots vs Reed and his family. It's about having people who love each other versus slaves under the control of one man. Overfocusing on Reed detracts from that.

  5. #5
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    The Human Torch had several, including The Wizard and Pastepot Pete.

    The Hulk has been suggested as The Thing's nemesis, and that seems reasonable, but Thundra is another strong possibility. Of course, his most bitter personal enemy has to be The Yancy Street Gang.

    If The Invisible Woman has a personal enemy, it should be Reed who has been such a terrible husband and father.

  6. #6
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    Is this only for the 4 main, or can replacement members also have their name and nemesis out there as well?

  7. #7
    Astonishing Member Mutant God's Avatar
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    Reed - Wizard

    Sue - Psycho Man

    Thing - Puppet Master (if the Yancy St. Gang had a leader I would say them)

    Human Torch - Annihilus
    Skeeter: Hey time traveling O5 members of the X-Men We don't take kindly to people who create a time paradox around here!

    Bartender: Now calm down Skeeter they aint hurtin nobody.

    Skeeter: No! I wanna know som'in from the "O5" How come you cant go back to your own timeline in the first place and how come when Reed Richards "fixed" the universe you wasnt put back and how come the changes that happn to you dont happn to your present day selves?

    Bartender: Skeeter I dont want trouble

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    While Doom is a threat to the entire team his motivation is revolved around Reed.

    So Reed has Doom, Mad Thinker, and Wizard (who was Johnny's when first created but that quickly changed), and maybe Namor whenever they're fighting over Sue.

    The others don't really have any which is a shame.
    They should really change that, outside of Doom a lot of FF villains have the barest of characterization.

    Why should care about Wizard when he is a poor man's Dr. Doom who has a very similar motive for hating Reed Richards as Doom does, expect not as good because his back story is far less developed, give him a rivalry with another FF member and give him some better characterization.

    A lot of villains frankly need better characterization, Red Ghost being an old Cold War propaganda character in 2018 makes him seem like a lame villain.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    The Human Torch had several, including The Wizard and Pastepot Pete.

    The Hulk has been suggested as The Thing's nemesis, and that seems reasonable, but Thundra is another strong possibility. Of course, his most bitter personal enemy has to be The Yancy Street Gang.

    If The Invisible Woman has a personal enemy, it should be Reed who has been such a terrible husband and father.
    How is Wizard or Trapster interesting foils for Human Torch at this point?

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelC View Post
    I think in that conflict, Richards represents creativity and the human spirit, and Thinker represents cold calculation. Thinker can absolutely predict and prep around everything purely physical, everything that can be understood mathematically. Yet the FF win anyway because they can be creative, and thematically because they have human souls that transcend the purely scientific.

    Also, I think many, including some writers, misunderstand the Doom/Fantastic Four conflict. It's not Doom vs Reed. It's Doom and his Doombots vs Reed and his family. It's about having people who love each other versus slaves under the control of one man. Overfocusing on Reed detracts from that.
    I think I prefer Mad Thinker has the morally ambiguous trickster mentor he was in New Warriors, rather then one note mad scientist he is the FF comics.
    Last edited by The Overlord; 07-28-2018 at 07:33 PM.

  9. #9
    Incredible Member Marvel Forever's Avatar
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    Sue badly needs a worthy female foe to be her nemesis. Medusa was great as an evil rival back in the 1960's, but a more powerful female foe is needed now to battle Sue.

  10. #10
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Overlord View Post
    They should really change that, outside of Doom a lot of FF villains have the barest of characterization.

    Why should care about Wizard when he is a poor man's Dr. Doom who has a very similar motive for hating Reed Richards as Doom does, expect not as good because his back story is far less developed, give him a rivalry with another FF member and give him some better characterization.

    A lot of villains frankly need better characterization, Red Ghost being an old Cold War propaganda character in 2018 makes him seem like a lame villain.



    How is Wizard or Trapster interesting foils for Human Torch at this point?



    I think I prefer Mad Thinker has the morally ambiguous trickster mentor he was in New Warriors, rather then one note mad scientist he is the FF comics.
    Yeah a lot of villains are in need of development or retiring. Like Mole Man, I just don't see him as a threat to the FF anymore and he should be used by another hero.
    I think part of the problem is the overuse of Dr Doom, he's the villain that most runs eventually fall back on as it's easier to do than trying to make other ones compelling too. That's why I hope Slott's run rarely uses Doom and focuses on less developed and new villains. Doom can face other heroes in the MU for a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvel Forever View Post
    Sue badly needs a worthy female foe to be her nemesis. Medusa was great as an evil rival back in the 1960's, but a more powerful female foe is needed now to battle Sue.
    They don't have to be a woman to a nemesis for Sue. They can be a male villain, and that goes for the other members too. Like this new villain called the Griever, she could end up being Johnny's or Ben's nemesis.
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  11. #11
    Astonishing Member Silvermoth's Avatar
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    Double post
    Last edited by Silvermoth; 07-29-2018 at 04:23 AM.

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member Silvermoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaijudo View Post
    If the Thing had anyone, it'd probably be the Hulk.
    See with the frightful four it was sandman which I think is really intriguing. Not just rock versus sand and erosion but the idea of two working class tough guys, one who got to move up and the other who couldnít. Plus spidey has enough rogues,

    Quote Originally Posted by Noek View Post
    Is this only for the 4 main, or can replacement members also have their name and nemesis out there as well?
    Of course, please suggest whoever you want! I can get started if you want...

    She hulk - Titania
    Black Panther- Killmonger


    Quote Originally Posted by Marvel Forever View Post
    Sue badly needs a worthy female foe to be her nemesis. Medusa was great as an evil rival back in the 1960's, but a more powerful female foe is needed now to battle Sue.
    I would love that. I think marvel should have more women heroes and villains. I guess in terms of an archnemesis itís a question of what part of her personality should be the focus of her villain? Her as a mum? Her as the First Lady of marvel? Her as something else.

    You know who would be a really interesting foil for Susan? Black Swan
    Last edited by Silvermoth; 07-29-2018 at 04:20 AM.

  13. #13
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    Ok so was going to do She Hulk - Titania, but for another Medusa - Blastaar

  14. #14
    Amazing Member Deku's Avatar
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    Mister Fantastic has the Mad Thinker.

    The Human Torch had the Beetle.
    Last edited by Deku; 07-29-2018 at 02:59 PM.
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  15. #15
    Amazing Member Deku's Avatar
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    Double post.
    Last edited by Deku; 07-29-2018 at 02:56 PM.
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