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    Fighting Injustice on CBR SUPERECWFAN1's Avatar
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    Default Old Wrestling School (The Territories , NWA/WCW , ECW , AWA etc)

    Lets face it ...a lot of modern wrestling nowadays is really boring with really no cool behind the scenes stories. There really isn't much comical stories like the time Austin Idol took a fake check from a wrestling battle royal according to Jim Cornette and cashed it at a bank in the 1980's . The people who worked at the bank attended the show and believed it was all real , allowing Idol to pocket the money.




    "Don't ya know me darlin , I'm Austin Idol !"

    There are a number of fun behind the scenes stories from shoots and more. Plus this thread is a nice one so that the modern stuff can be done in the current thread (which I think should be renamed The Wrestling Thread) since everyone is talking about the current state of the industry beyond WWE. But that is up to the mod on that one.


    Anyhow one wild story is the chain reaction that moves can make in pro wrestling. In the 1980's one move actually changed the course of a lot of destines .


    - Jim Cornette and his co-host discussed the Georgia Championship Wrestling change in 1982/1983. In that Georgia had at one time Jim Barnett , Ole Anderson , Brisco Brothers and Bill Watts (10% owner) of the territory. Overall the territory for a number of years ran like a machine in the 1970's and had been built very well by Barnett's business dealings and Ole's booking.


    - But as time passed Ole and Barnett didn't get along it appears and as Jim claims that Christmas (perhaps 1983) Barnett went to Japan or China to get his suits made. He would go every year there on a trip. Now as Jim explains Barnett would put money into the company and take it out when need be. So Ole somehow got in the office and saw that Barnett had taken funds and used it to push him out of running the territory so once he returned home he no longer was in charge.


    - Ole now was in charge fully and Cornette claims either he was burnt out by the years of booking/performing or the fact he now had to run things as well. And it was terrible at how things went. Wrestlers would lose or win for no reason and it became pretty bad. The Brisco brothers didn't like how things were going but Jim Barnett decided no one was gonna fuck him over.





    - Barnett contacted Vince McMahon who was busy gobbling up TV at the time to spread the WWF across the country and sold his part. Barnett also learned that the Brisco brothers weren't happy with things in Georgia and got Vince in contact with them. So they sold out too. The Brisco's worked a deal where they'd get employed by Vince for the next 30+ years as we saw.


    - Ole at this stage had bought the 10% piece by Watts and was blindsided by this. The territory in effect now belonged to Vince and he tried to fight it. I detailed months ago that McMahon tried to get Ole to work for him like Barnett and the Brisco's would . At a hearing in court Ole lashed out at Vince and Linda McMahon which would never allow him to work for them.


    But one move as we saw impacted so much as Cornette's co-host brought up...

    1) The sale of Georgia had led Vince to do Black Saturday where WWF aired and many complained. This had Ted Turner sign UWF to air on TBS. The UWF became more popular than Vince's WWF . Turner also got Ole Anderson a show on TBS with a renamed Georgia territory.


    2) Vince's WWF expansion in Georgia didn't work and he sold the time slot to Jim Crockett saying he'd regret buying it. The cost was $1 million dollars as Crockett was expanding Mid-Atlantic territory nationally. This had an effect on UWF as Turner dropped that company from TBS and impacted it , where later it would in 1987 be sold to Crockett .


    3) This move as I posted literally impacted 3 territories in rapid order ...GCW , Mid-Atlantic and UWF. Its amazing how much changed due to one move by Ole Anderson there in 1982/1983.
    "The story so far: As usual, Ginger and I are engaged in our quest to find out what the hell is going on and save humanity from my nemesis, some bastard who is presumably responsible." - Sir Digby Chicken Caesar.

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    I was discussing Priscilla Kelly's upcoming debut in the WWE and it really put me in mind of a great talented women's wrestler who sadly never got a chance in WWE. In fact its kinda sad in a way , as Daffney (I spelled her name wrong on the other thread) aka Zombie Hot was such a great character. She literally debuted in the dying years of WCW but caught on so well...she went to TNA. Where she really became a star Knockout.

    But in WCW....is where she clicked 1st. She was along with a couple other things...a rare bright spot in the dying days of WCW.





    The whole arc with David Flair was perfect and how it flowed into Miss Hancock. In the end though what hurt the angle was more or less the limitations that David had as a worker. He clearly needed more training as we know. He was like Erik Watts pushed on TV before he was ready or had intentions to do. In the Death of WCW Book , it was said David Flair wanted to have a career in law enforcement. What changed his mind is when Bischoff showed him a PPV check he'd receive and he decided to do this.

    Daffney really jelled as valet next to Crowbar as we saw. Devon Storm aka Crowbar was a solid in ring worker and Daffney went farther with him. In fact it was Ed Ferrera as a writer for WCW who suggested she scream and shriek on camera , which became her trademark . It added to her character as the insane Zombie Hot character.

    But sadly for Daffney WCW in 2001 was a company in deep money issues and they were selling out. The idea originally was to sell to Fusiant Media and Bischoff seemingly had no idea what to do with this character , so WCW fired her in Feb 2001. A month later the WWE bought the company. They never gave her a chance it was sad. Because she just had that magnetic quality that the company could have used then.
    "The story so far: As usual, Ginger and I are engaged in our quest to find out what the hell is going on and save humanity from my nemesis, some bastard who is presumably responsible." - Sir Digby Chicken Caesar.

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    In a funny interview with Mick Foley , Jim Cornette brought up the 1st run that Mick had in WCW.


    - Cornette and Sullivan had seen tapes of Mick from the CWA and thought he'd be perfect for a run in WCW. But one issue was , while they had power to put guys on TV as part of booking committee ; they had no say in who got pushed. So both men came up with the most absurd , ass backwards way of pushing someone on TV. They would pair Cactus Jack in tag matches jobber wise , have his partner lose and Jack would beat them up post match with dropping elbow from the ring to the floor.


    - Mick himself didn't realize til 2-3 weeks in that he was getting over with this as fans would suddenly pop for the post match beat down to watch. He detailed that when it 1st started , Sullivan asked what his finish was and Mick was like , a finish...against the Steiner's ? He was like drop an elbow and Cornette described it. Things progressed to bigger guys being his partner...and finally Mike Rotundo. And he finally got a singles run.


    - Jim and Mick discussed the Mil Mascaras and his feelings there. Jim details he knows Mick felt that the company was trying to send a message he wasn't wanted with Mascaras there and him having to put the guy over. But him and Sullivan had to find someone who could work Mascaras as Jim Barnett suggested they bring him in due to PPV being in Texas/Mexico border. So Kevin Sullivan was like...."Cactus is da guy , Jimmy ...he can do it." They had seen Mick's Neste plunge and knew that no one would talk about his loss if he delivered that during the match. Then post match him and another guy brawled and he got beat up , which was like the Cactus Jack hour.


    - Mick himself said that as Mil was running late and thoughts were ...he's NO SHOWING , plans was to have him and Jake Fargo who he had turned against a couple weeks earlier in a tag match have a singles match and him to go over. But Mascaras arrived and they went with this. His only issue with the match was he wanted to kick out of that 1 pin attempt and still let Mascaras win. But was told no , he couldn't do that.


    "The story so far: As usual, Ginger and I are engaged in our quest to find out what the hell is going on and save humanity from my nemesis, some bastard who is presumably responsible." - Sir Digby Chicken Caesar.

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    In an interesting spot Jim Cornette discussed the wrestling rings and how he tried to change Ring of Honor's wrestling ring at one time.


    - He discussed the old WCW wrestling rings had better turnbuckle pads and had a POP sound on TV when people would hit them for TV . The WWF turn buckles was kinda squishy and did not have the same thing. WCW had smaller rings as well .


    - In his stint at ROH he had noticed the ring needed work. He took 2 back bumps before a show and realized how tough the ring was and that it needed replaced because he wanted a softer one for the guys long term to work on. So right when Sinclair bought the company and they had the money he had a new ring brought in from OVW , where the WWE had sent some rings.

    But a problem arose because the ring crew guys had always put the old ROH ring up and knew how to do it. The new ring was one they struggled in putting up and they pretty much didn't wanna go through the hassle of using it then. Jim believes they for TV use that ring though , even though he hasn't watched much.
    "The story so far: As usual, Ginger and I are engaged in our quest to find out what the hell is going on and save humanity from my nemesis, some bastard who is presumably responsible." - Sir Digby Chicken Caesar.

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    In a post from months back I remember hearing about the worst wrestler Cornette felt was in OVW and its was "Big" Russ McCullough who really never had much of a career in pro wrestling and retired in 2003 or 2004 after a couple years and leaving developmental.


    - Jim detailed that he had no real muscle definition and the whole name fit his kinda boring personality basically. That this was the early days of WWE developmental and they really didn't have the system fine tuned that well so they had to use him. His big positive was he was 7 foot tall , 300 pounds. And he was edging on 30. But again it was the early days of WWE developmental.


    - Anyhow he came to Cornette one day and said , I have this cool music I wanna use. It was a late 1999 and a heavy metal/grunge song. The song title comically was called "Dead & Bloated" by the Stone Temple Pilots. Which Jim joked kinda fit who Russ really was given his non talent in ring etc.


    - So he brought up that a show in WV was booked and the TV of OVW didn't come there. A bar had paid a couple thousand for them to run a show there. No one would know who these guys was , since no TV was there again. So everyone would get a fresh look by these fans and also the roster then would get a chance to work a cold crowd who didn't know them . So his big heel was Batista (as Leviathan) and Russ was the big face.


    - Well the STP music theme hits , Russ comes out in all black and the crowd quickly look at him as the heel. Russ doesn't know how to handle being booed so he decides to take the mic and decides to Cornette's horror ...and cut a promo on them. Which gets him even more heel heat by this crowd. So he stands next to Batista and Stacy (his valet) as this is happening backstage , Batista your now the face . Go out , hit your couple moves and go over clean. Batista is like what ? So Jim repeats himself that he now is the face since Russ has decided to be a heel.


    - Batista hits the ring in quick order , and Russ has no clue as whats going on as fans think he's the face now n pop ! So he later learns as Russ tries to be a face early that Dave had to whisper in his ear , "Cornette told me to do this...." and hits the shit he's supposed to going over.


    - Russ comes backstage angry as Jim is like , you wanted to come out and be a damn heel in the match so I had to have a face. So the face went over. Next time if I don't say cut a promo , you should listen.


    - Another thing that OVW had was to save costs they actually had the good guys and bad guys alternate shows taking the ring up/down . That he didn't want folks seeing all the guys do it together so one night all the faces put up the ring and then took it down. The next night it was the heels. Well now everyone is looking for Russ since he was supposed to be the face and he's out in his car , crying over the phone about how he was done.


    - So he was kinda happy Russ didn't last long in OVW.






    This is the only video I could find of this guy by the way. Its nearly 20 years old and it seems Cornette was right about things here.
    "The story so far: As usual, Ginger and I are engaged in our quest to find out what the hell is going on and save humanity from my nemesis, some bastard who is presumably responsible." - Sir Digby Chicken Caesar.

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    Todd Gordon in a shoot interview discussed ECW's 1st ever card as Eastern Championship Wrestling. It took place in 1992 and was called "Market Street Mayhem".


    - Todd brings up that they ran in a local bar that had TWA (Tri-State Wrestling) shows and the comical aspect was the roof of the bar was so low , no one could go off the top rope. That even with the ring lowered to work for this , no one could go off the top rope even then due to the lower roof.


    - To sell the show they did flyers and tried to spread word of mouth. But well then word of mouth was limited and they drew like 80 people to that 1st show.


    - His 1st booker was Larry Winters and he kinda swerved him in an angle where it was pretty racist. In fact the angle proposed was that he would after a DQ finish as heel paint J.T Smith white (he was black). His tag team partner was not to be touched. But Gordon found the angle to be pretty insane and told Winters paint Smith's partner (DC Drake) black as you do this and its a balance instead of a complete racist statement your making. Instead Winters left the paint behind and painted just J.T Smith , Gordon was pissed and took over booking.



    - The 1st show was mostly Joel Goodhart's class that was used from Sandman , Don E Allen , Stetson and Stevie Richards. Todd put over Stevie big time and that he was just a guy that was a star. That its a shame his throat operations hurt him and he feels he would have done bigger in WWE. He puts over how Stevie was tough to take the abuse he did where someone chopped his chest so hard , you could see the red lashes from chops he took. And Stevie never complained or anything.


    - The 1st show had Ivan Koloff involved and Todd put over what a great guy he was. That a big problem Joel Goodhart had running TWA was , he wanted ALL THE STARS on almost every show and a budget can't take that. They can only afford who they can get. So he was told about Ivan Koloff and he called him. They paid him like $300-400 for the show and he drove there.

    At the show Koloff asked what he wanted and Todd told him about this big kid named Tony Stetson he wanted him to work against. Koloff was like , ok so you want me to put him over ? Which surprised Gordon who never knew that he'd offer that. As Koloff explained , well I'm already over and don't need it but if I put him over it helps the guy your building ahead. Stetson himself was shocked when Todd told him.


    "The story so far: As usual, Ginger and I are engaged in our quest to find out what the hell is going on and save humanity from my nemesis, some bastard who is presumably responsible." - Sir Digby Chicken Caesar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERECWFAN1 View Post
    Lets face it ...a lot of modern wrestling nowadays is really boring with really no cool behind the scenes stories. There really isn't much comical stories like the time Austin Idol took a fake check from a wrestling battle royal according to Jim Cornette and cashed it at a bank in the 1980's . The people who worked at the bank attended the show and believed it was all real , allowing Idol to pocket the money.




    "Don't ya know me darlin , I'm Austin Idol !"

    Cornette didn't mention how the promoter called the cops on Idol for stealing the money and a police officer went to Idol's door? Idol gave the police officer a bullshit speech about how he worked hard for that check and that he was offended the promoter was trying to take away what he honestly earned that night in the ring. The cop was convinced and left Idol alone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramsay Snow View Post
    Cornette didn't mention how the promoter called the cops on Idol for stealing the money and a police officer went to Idol's door? Idol gave the police officer a bullshit speech about how he worked hard for that check and that he was offended the promoter was trying to take away what he honestly earned that night in the ring. The cop was convinced and left Idol alone.
    Cornette when he 1st discussed it alone brought up the whole legend of Idol cashing this check at a bank and all. Idol when he was with him discussed that final part.
    "The story so far: As usual, Ginger and I are engaged in our quest to find out what the hell is going on and save humanity from my nemesis, some bastard who is presumably responsible." - Sir Digby Chicken Caesar.

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    of House Bolton Ramsay Snow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERECWFAN1 View Post
    Cornette when he 1st discussed it alone brought up the whole legend of Idol cashing this check at a bank and all. Idol when he was with him discussed that final part.
    I knew about it due to Idol's shoot interview that came out a few years ago, I think via Highspots.

    In Gary Hart's book, he had some disturbing things to say about Idol during Idol's earlier years......This was back when Idol had the heavier powerlifter look with dark hair, nothing like the persona he crafted later in his career. They were both touring Australia and Hart's apartment was directly underneath Idol's. He said Idol bought a pitbull and was abusive to it whenever it would act up or not do what he'd say. Hart said one day he saw Idol holding the dog over the balcony by its leash/neck (Essentially hanging the damn dog). Then on another day, the pitbull finally attacked back and chewed up Idol's legs.

    Weird stuff, and not something I'd expect out of Idol. Not that we truly know what type of person he is. Hopefully he grew out of that odd, abusive-to-animals/dogs mentality later in life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramsay Snow View Post
    I knew about it due to Idol's shoot interview that came out a few years ago, I think via Highspots.

    In Gary Hart's book, he had some disturbing things to say about Idol during Idol's earlier years......This was back when Idol had the heavier powerlifter look with dark hair, nothing like the persona he crafted later in his career. They were both touring Australia and Hart's apartment was directly underneath Idol's. He said Idol bought a pitbull and was abusive to it whenever it would act up or not do what he'd say. Hart said one day he saw Idol holding the dog over the balcony by its leash/neck (Essentially hanging the damn dog). Then on another day, the pitbull finally attacked back and chewed up Idol's legs.

    Weird stuff, and not something I'd expect out of Idol. Not that we truly know what type of person he is. Hopefully he grew out of that odd, abusive-to-animals/dogs mentality later in life.

    1st I heard about the abusing dogs issue. So no idea about that from Hart's book til you mentioned it.
    "The story so far: As usual, Ginger and I are engaged in our quest to find out what the hell is going on and save humanity from my nemesis, some bastard who is presumably responsible." - Sir Digby Chicken Caesar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERECWFAN1 View Post
    1st I heard about the abusing dogs issue. So no idea about that from Hart's book til you mentioned it.
    Hart's autobiography was one of the best wrestling books I've read. It's a must-read, but it's supposed to be hard to find now.

    He went into detail about the plane crash he, Idol, and a few others were in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERECWFAN1 View Post
    1st I heard about the abusing dogs issue. So no idea about that from Hart's book til you mentioned it.
    I guess on the subject of animal cruelty... I remember hearing a story years ago when I would listen to a lot of wrestling shoots of the old wild west days of wrestling.

    Now I may be getting the characters in this story wrong so take it with a grain of salt but I want to know if someone remembers this because it freaked me out...

    I pretty sure... not 100% sure one of the Von Erichs like found a stray cat and just started bashing it's brains in, just out of nowhere and whoever was telling the story was really creeped out. There are fun party stories in wrestling, crazy fight stories in wrestling... then you get some disturbing shit...

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    Wait... Is this really an online wrestling school/course or did you just type the words wrong?

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    Jim Herd is one of Cornette's favorite targets as well as Sullivan and Flair's. To say Jim Herd knew the business would be like saying David Arquette as WCW World Champion was a great idea. Anyhow one of the funniest videos I listened to last night had Cornette discuss Herd and the contract negotiations that he and Midnights had in 1989.


    - Cornette brought up that by spring 1989 after Arn Anderson and Tully Blanchard had left for WWF as well as the aborted Midnights vs Midnights angle crashed n burned due to Randy Rose leaving ; things weren't good. That they approached George Scott (who was the head booker at this point of WCW) and they asked him what plans they had. Scott told them he didn't have anything for them so they all 3 wanted to leave the company then and would leave when their contracts expired that fall. Scott agreed and said he would write them out in a few weeks.


    - Well behind the scenes Scott suddenly was fired and a whole booking committee was established. Jim Ross was a key part of this and learned that the Midnights with Cornette was leaving. So he contacted him to stay which Cornette agreed. But felt the group needed time off to get over the fact they had been involved in some terrible matches and losses. As he laid it out Stan Lane and Bobby Eaton were banged up anyhow and needed time off to heal up so they would get 2-3 months off then return with a new focus etc. J.R agreed to this idea and told him to speak with Herd on a new contract.


    - Cornette met with Herd for the 1st time and detailed how he knew the Midnight's and himself was being paid way too much. That they were being paid $225,000 a year which was very top of the line money and given to them by Jim Crockett at one point. So as Jim laid it out to Herd the guys and himself wanted to stay with WCW as they considered themselves loyal workers and would take a pay cut in line with everyone else in the company.


    - Herd came back with an offer of $75,000 for Eaton & Lane ...and giving Cornette $100,000. But Jim was like , why would you wanna pay me more but as Herd claimed it was because Jim could do color commentary. Cornette rejected this offer saying the guys deserved to be paid in line in what Sting and others were at $150,000 a year. That he would take less but give the guys that. Herd at 1st rejected it and came back with a $90,000 offer for both guys and Cornette making $120,000. Each time Cornette would tell him that he didn't want more money and to pay Eaton & Lane more than him.

    This continued for days as Herd would slowly make offers and Cornette would reject each one. At one point Herd told J.R "I ain't seen this type of thing since Korea War !" Finally Herd came back with an offer to pay Eaton & Lane $120,000 a year and Cornette $150,000. Which in 1989 money was really big. So he told them and both guys had families (Eaton had 3 kids to support) so they told Cornette to accept the offer. That they didn't care he was making more.

    It boggled Cornette's mind that he would literally tell Herd he was fine being paid this amount of money and would take less , yet comically would each time get offered more every time. But it summed up how stupid Jim Herd was he felt.
    "The story so far: As usual, Ginger and I are engaged in our quest to find out what the hell is going on and save humanity from my nemesis, some bastard who is presumably responsible." - Sir Digby Chicken Caesar.

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    Brian Pillman died sadly 20+ years ago but was considered one of the best performers to work in ring at one time. He became more famous for his LOOSE CANNON era of work where his shoot style comments and all became pretty famous. At one time Pillman in 1997 worked for WCW , ECW and the WWF. All in one year folks. Only Rick Rude was able to do that as well it seems within a year.

    Pillman became a BIG star when he worked against Ric Flair in a singles match in 1990 and Flair was impressed.





    Cornette discussed Pillman and how plans was to make him a main event star in 1990/1991 started...and then fizzled out.


    - Before Flair quit the booking committee WCW was in a spot as they were looking at future main event stars to build. Cornette brought up to Flair beyond Sting they really didn't have a strong 2nd main event face to work. Because every time they went to build someone...either the guy would no show ; get injured or just not work out. So they were looking at the roster so Cornette asked Flair..."What do you think of Brian Pillman ?"

    Flair was receptive to it as Pillman worked solid in ring. So both him and Flair laid out "The plan" for Brian Pillman.


    - The angle would be that Pillman would be injured against the Midnight Express in a US Tag team title match. He always had the raspy voice due to throat operations as a kid. So Cornette would injure his throat and take him out. You would see the vignettes of Pillman in a neck brace barely able to speak as Zenk would. This would go on a couple weeks til the revenge match where if the Zenk/Pillman team won ; Pillman would get 5 minutes alone with Cornette to beat him up.

    Zenk would be ambushed before the match and Pillman would go it alone...and beat both guys by himself. Then take down Cornette. In the end they would hand Pillman off to Flair at a Clash of Champions to say ...go do what you did with Sting years earlier. Everything seemed fine...


    - They show up the next week to start the angle and Jim Barnett was there who told them ...no we can't do this. It will make Brian look weak. Which as Cornette knew was orders from Jim Herd to kill the angle due to anger at Midnight's and him. Their contracts would end after April and he didn't want to pay them. That they would be demanding more money for this big angle. Which was silly as it was for Pillman and not them.


    - At the end the angle ran but not fully what they wanted and Flair would quit the committee later due to issues like this. Barnett told Cornette that if the angle didn't draw he would take the blame. 6 months later he told Barnett he was to blame as the angle didn't draw.
    "The story so far: As usual, Ginger and I are engaged in our quest to find out what the hell is going on and save humanity from my nemesis, some bastard who is presumably responsible." - Sir Digby Chicken Caesar.

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