Old Wrestling School (The Territories , NWA/WCW , ECW , AWA etc)

[Ramsay Snow]

Cornette when he 1st discussed it alone brought up the whole legend of Idol cashing this check at a bank and all. Idol when he was with him discussed that final part.

I knew about it due to Idol's shoot interview that came out a few years ago, I think via Highspots.

In Gary Hart's book, he had some disturbing things to say about Idol during Idol's earlier years......This was back when Idol had the heavier powerlifter look with dark hair, nothing like the persona he crafted later in his career. They were both touring Australia and Hart's apartment was directly underneath Idol's. He said Idol bought a pitbull and was abusive to it whenever it would act up or not do what he'd say. Hart said one day he saw Idol holding the dog over the balcony by its leash/neck (Essentially hanging the damn dog). Then on another day, the pitbull finally attacked back and chewed up Idol's legs.

Weird stuff, and not something I'd expect out of Idol. Not that we truly know what type of person he is. Hopefully he grew out of that odd, abusive-to-animals/dogs mentality later in life.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I knew about it due to Idol's shoot interview that came out a few years ago, I think via Highspots.

In Gary Hart's book, he had some disturbing things to say about Idol during Idol's earlier years......This was back when Idol had the heavier powerlifter look with dark hair, nothing like the persona he crafted later in his career. They were both touring Australia and Hart's apartment was directly underneath Idol's. He said Idol bought a pitbull and was abusive to it whenever it would act up or not do what he'd say. Hart said one day he saw Idol holding the dog over the balcony by its leash/neck (Essentially hanging the damn dog). Then on another day, the pitbull finally attacked back and chewed up Idol's legs.

Weird stuff, and not something I'd expect out of Idol. Not that we truly know what type of person he is. Hopefully he grew out of that odd, abusive-to-animals/dogs mentality later in life.

1st I heard about the abusing dogs issue. So no idea about that from Hart's book til you mentioned it.

[Ramsay Snow]

1st I heard about the abusing dogs issue. So no idea about that from Hart's book til you mentioned it.

Hart's autobiography was one of the best wrestling books I've read. It's a must-read, but it's supposed to be hard to find now.

He went into detail about the plane crash he, Idol, and a few others were in.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Jim Cornette in an old podcast discussed WCW's attempt at recreating the Fabulous Freebirds back in 1989.


- Cornette put over that Jimmy Garvin and his wife was very close to the Midnights. They all 5 would get in rent-a-cars and share the cost to save money to go do TV and drive around. They'd eat pizza and meals in motels together. Cornette's wife would help the nanny they hired to watch their kids as well at times. So they were close.


- Jim brings up that WCW really wanted Terry Gordy and tried getting him for the Freebirds. But Gordy was over in Japan and told them he was only able to work certain dates. So they had to get Garvin. Because they needed a talented wrestler to work in ring since well...as Jim claims 'Michael is the talker and frankly the shits in ring." As Cornette brings up its how Buddy Roberts was put in the group when it started. Hayes just was not good in ring but damn he could talk. So they basically made him the mouth piece and let Gordy/Roberts do the work.


- So Hayes wanted to recreate the glory days of the Freebirds essentially. But its here Garvin's attitude changed as Cornette claims he started taking supplements because he wanted to work as a main event heel but his size was always an issue since he 5'10 , 205 at best. In a comical spot in 1989 ; Garvin charged towards him during a match and hit him. Cornette sold it and fell outta the ring. Garvin got angry that Cornette didn't get help to the back and complained backstage which Cornette was like , damn it I'm even bigger than you !


- But this continued as the Freebirds weren't selling for anyone and they were the heels. In fact Hayes before a match at Great American Bash told Cornette and the Midnights that the team would not sell the tennis racket. Maybe some chairs or tables . Now as Jim joked , they were acting like they were the Road Warriors.


- This led to a wild Bash tour match where Gordy joined them against Midnight's and Dr. Death. The entire deal was where during the match they beat on Eaton awhile to get heat til he finally makes the hot tag to Stan Lane. Where they moderately sell for him til they start on him. Then finally they get heat on him (Cornette) and win . Post match no one knew it was coming and they jumped them to get more heel heat ...which finally pissed off Dr. Death.


- Doc goes gets a classic wooden chair from the Boston Garden area as he decides to use it. Garvin stood there and Dr. Death just swung that chair and started smashing him. Garvin would yell "f-ck" repeatedly as Dr. Death would answer "F-ck with me !" Finally they followed Doc out as the heels ran off.


- Backstage things was gonna go down as Garvin and Hayes wasn't happy . They were yelling as Cornette wondered what Gordy and Williams would do. Anyhow what stunned everyone is Bobby Eaton yelled out ; which stunned them all since he was considered quiet and friends with Gordy and Garvin. That the team wasn't just there to put them over. It snapped folks back and Gordy spoke up as well. Cornette claims Gordy was the only one selling for anyone.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Kevin Nash is a very off the cuff guy and will joke around at times in shoots. But one of the wildest things that he took heat for in a shoot was Matt Borne. The guy who played Doink the clown had some heat against Nash for a part where he joked about wrestling being fake.


- Nash is shown the clip as Borne unleashes anger at him for saying "The F Word" as Nash studies this and wonders if at 1st if he swore about Flair. Instead he's told no , he called the business fake. Which blows his mind as Borne claims Nash should have never been allowed in business and how him and his daddy wasn't fake.


- Big Kev comically jokes , well I would know you and your dad is real like me and my dad are real...and not holograms. But he then gets serious and discusses this dinosaur mind set folks have at times. How they hate hearing the word "fake' . But as he asks the interviewer..."Can you go to Vegas and bet on Wrestlemania ?" The interviewer tells him NO. The matches are predetermined as Nash then asks if Arnold is in fact a real Terminator in the film ? The interviewer jokes that Nash isn't gonna make this easy for him lol.



- Before this Nash is asked if he had heat with Borne possibly. He doesn't really know if he did. He does know Borne was kinda dangerous to work with then. That as Big Josh he'd do some things to him when he was green as Oz. That guys would call Borne "Crusty the Clown" as he'd hit the bars after a show and still have some paint left on him.



Sadly for Borne he would pass away a couple years ago. He had one last infamous shoot against Hacksaw Jim Duggen in a match (where The Pope was announcing) and it broke down. Borne and his fans claim Duggen had been drinking heavily and was in no shape to work. While Duggen and his fans claim Borne had heat and just became unprofessional. But it appears both men had some heat there dating back years earlier.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

One of the interesting interview shoots you rarely see is Bill Dundee. Who had a long career in Memphis and still on occasion wrestles. Dundee is beloved in that state and worked there a number of years. He also worked in WCW which I'll post the video below. But in his 2 shoot clips he discussed Vince McMahon and Ric Flair.


-


- Dundee was leaving WCW and the WWF then was looking at bringing him in a way due to Jerry Lawler's recommending him. So he was flown in and went to Vince's house where he met with him. They had a nice dinner and he met Shane and Stephanie as well. The entire meeting was nice and at the end before they could agree on a $90,000+ contract a year ; Vince asks...so do you have any issues with anyone in the company ?

Do Dundee was honest and said that the Undertaker may have an issue from back when he worked that area as well as someone else . That there was heat with Undertaker and Vince nodded. Then after the meal he said they'd be in touch so he was flown back home. He joked he never heard from Vince again and he never called back.



- The next one involves a comical story about Ric Flair. Dundee claims him and Flair just never have gotten along personally and that he's...different for sure. But he claims they just never did get along. And the interviewer asks about the story where Dundee vs Flair never happened and he brings up that.

Dundee claimed that he was starting to work an angle with KoKo B. Ware there in Memphis and really wanted the angle to do good. He was Southern Champion at the time and Flair was traveling World Champion. So he was coming to town and was supposed to work him as champion. But Dundee told KoKo the night before as they did a match Saturday night , your gonna become champion tonight and face Flair. To further our angle.


- Flair has no clue that this change has happened as he's expected to face Dundee as a big match. So he gets in the cab going to motel and tells the driver , well I'm facing Bill Dundee tonight. The driver corrects him .."You were facing Bill Dundee ...but he lost that title to KoKo B. Ware and now ur facing him." Flair is PISSED...and he goes to the arena after this and Dusty has to calm him down.


- Now Dundee claims that Flair was saying the N word and asking "who is this ____ ?" A fact the interviewer brings up that Tony Atlas claims Flair would say that a lot. It was a product of that era then. But Dusty got him to calm down and work the match and it was great. Because KoKo could really work and he came back and did another one. But they never did work together.


- When he booked Memphis he never used Flair. But when Lawler would book he'd bring in Flair to work against him.

[mrluck_07]

This thread is right up my alley. Gotta check out some of Dundee's work though.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

This thread is right up my alley. Gotta check out some of Dundee's work though.

As is the case with a lot of legends who work...sometimes talent doesn't pass on to the next generation regarding Jamie Dundee.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Greg Gagne discussed some interesting things with an interview with Jim Cornette. One of his stories centered around Mad Dog Vachon ....





Years ago an incident with the WWF was called "The plane ride from hell" where various wrestlers got in trouble on a plane flight as a scuffle broke out there. Well many years earlier the AWA had their own version of this play out according to Greg Gagne and others.


- Mad Dog was due to meet some in-laws I believe from what Greg described but liked to drink. Backstage at a show there was a case or cooler of beer folks had and when he walked back after his match he saw the cooler was empty and Mad Dog had likely drank a lot of the beers himself. Which had the Mad Dog tell them he knew how to drink.


- After the show he was due to go meet whoever it was and as one wrestler tagged along detailed to Greg Gagne the Mad Dog had drank more beers and some whiskey. The wrestler then decided that Mad Dog was gonna lose control and gave him some pot and something with it to try and calm him down. Which stunned both Greg and his dad there as he stumbled out of a car seemingly out of his mind.


- It didn't work. Instead as Greg claimed things went worse on the plane flight as Vachon kicked open the plane door and no one could stop him ! He'd then remark repeatedly as he hung looking at the sky , "Its so peaceful , I feel like flying...." Everyone is scared shitless at this point as Mad Dog throws plane drinks outside as well as his own wrestling gear in suitcases out this open plane door as they are in the air !


- The pilot has to make an emergency landing which the pilot by now warns them they may end up crashing because the stairs are down where Mad Dog seemed to kick the door open. So everyone had to assume crash position. Lucky for them the pilot landed it and sit the plane down. By this point Mad Dog gets blasted with some foam after the landing and is outside on the runway walking.


- The cops tell Greg and Jim (Brunzell im thinking) to "Go get him..." and they are like are you serious ? And they are because where he's walking on the runway more planes are due to be released. So they chase after him and he starts to fight them. Both end up taking some punches from him and they have to fight Vachon on the run way as planes are starting to get ready for take off. In the end police helped them and ended up shackling Mad Dog as he's swearing how he'll get revenge !


- Also they ended up letting Vachon fly home but had him restrained the rest of the way home ! HOLY ****.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwMIol0sflQ

[Darkseid Is]

I haven't read every post here but I've seen the name Jim Cornette pop up a few times and I gotta chime in and say I love the man hahaha I agree with mostly every opinion he has on wrestling (especially modern wrestling) but here's where it gets interesting, I think...

Back when I had the network I watched some Smokey Mountain Wrestling and I gotta say I was pretty bored. I'm sure if I watched it live back in the day it would be fine but a lot of it doesn't hold up.

ECW on the other hand, I found myself enjoying. By no means am I a wrestling expert or a wrestling purist or whatever, but when you start a match and you're already covered in blood and you're getting hit with chairs and baseball bats, then like a DDT wins the match or something... it just comes off as a mess haha but the characters of ECW were so entertaining.

[Darkseid Is]

1st I heard about the abusing dogs issue. So no idea about that from Hart's book til you mentioned it.

I guess on the subject of animal cruelty... I remember hearing a story years ago when I would listen to a lot of wrestling shoots of the old wild west days of wrestling.

Now I may be getting the characters in this story wrong so take it with a grain of salt but I want to know if someone remembers this because it freaked me out...

I pretty sure... not 100% sure one of the Von Erichs like found a stray cat and just started bashing it's brains in, just out of nowhere and whoever was telling the story was really creeped out. There are fun party stories in wrestling, crazy fight stories in wrestling... then you get some disturbing ****...

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I haven't read every post here but I've seen the name Jim Cornette pop up a few times and I gotta chime in and say I love the man hahaha I agree with mostly every opinion he has on wrestling (especially modern wrestling) but here's where it gets interesting, I think...

Back when I had the network I watched some Smokey Mountain Wrestling and I gotta say I was pretty bored. I'm sure if I watched it live back in the day it would be fine but a lot of it doesn't hold up.

ECW on the other hand, I found myself enjoying. By no means am I a wrestling expert or a wrestling purist or whatever, but when you start a match and you're already covered in blood and you're getting hit with chairs and baseball bats, then like a DDT wins the match or something... it just comes off as a mess haha but the characters of ECW were so entertaining.

I don't agree with Cornette's take on modern wrestling and think he's just better doing things about older wrestling like a historian approach. That is my take on it as I enjoy the older stories and interviews.

My only problem with WWE Network's version of ECW on their streaming network is the lack of music and how they chopped it out. The original ECW had this great vibe with the music , promotion of cards and more. It really was great and they came in and chopped a lot of the Hardcore TV stuff up.

I guess on the subject of animal cruelty... I remember hearing a story years ago when I would listen to a lot of wrestling shoots of the old wild west days of wrestling.

Now I may be getting the characters in this story wrong so take it with a grain of salt but I want to know if someone remembers this because it freaked me out...

I pretty sure... not 100% sure one of the Von Erichs like found a stray cat and just started bashing it's brains in, just out of nowhere and whoever was telling the story was really creeped out. There are fun party stories in wrestling, crazy fight stories in wrestling... then you get some disturbing ****...

All I remember the Von Erich's story was sadly the brothers were a product of the era of being young and being wild at times as Mick Foley detailed. Never heard about the animal cruelty deal. That is surprising.

[XPac]

I haven't read every post here but I've seen the name Jim Cornette pop up a few times and I gotta chime in and say I love the man hahaha I agree with mostly every opinion he has on wrestling (especially modern wrestling) but here's where it gets interesting, I think...

Back when I had the network I watched some Smokey Mountain Wrestling and I gotta say I was pretty bored. I'm sure if I watched it live back in the day it would be fine but a lot of it doesn't hold up.

ECW on the other hand, I found myself enjoying. By no means am I a wrestling expert or a wrestling purist or whatever, but when you start a match and you're already covered in blood and you're getting hit with chairs and baseball bats, then like a DDT wins the match or something... it just comes off as a mess haha but the characters of ECW were so entertaining.

Cornette probably is my fave wrestling personality online. I only agree with 70-80% of what he says, but agree with him or not I always fine him entertaining. He's funny, and probably the most passionate person about the business you can ever imagine.

As far as Smokey Mountain and ECW... I kind of agree. What little I've seen of Smokey Mountain just seemed sort of too old school and southern. I'm sure it was very good at what it was trying to do, but it wasn't my cup of tea.

As for ECW... I enjoyed it. It was a very fun energetic product with some very passionate people behind it. That said... in hindsight I don't think ECW was necessarily good for the talent or the business. It was good for the fans certainly... but you basically had a lot of young stupid guys doing incredibly stupid dangerous things to their body for little or no money towards the end there. As entertaining as it was, I think it epitomized whats wrong with wrestling in the modern era.

Basically ECW and Smokey Mountain were two extremes, and wrestling probably needs to find some sort of middle ground between them.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Well there was a middle ground for ECW. Vince told Paul back before he really went full Attitude Era in 1997 that he needed to tone some things down and it would work. Paul didn't want to change what the fanbase he had gained grew to enjoy and kept the "Extreme" elements intact and it later hurt the company. Because once the cable landscape changed and pro wrestling became a harder sell commercials wise ...Heyman couldn't get it on cable after the TNN deal went bad. Not when near naked women are taking table power bombs and guys are bleeding in hardcore matches.

Vince took the middle ground and went on to make Attitude Era click. He used the blueprint ECW had and made sure it worked mainstream wise and not bleed advertisers. (Even when PTC would target him to lose ones...he'd regain them later once the heat was off)

[From The Shadows]

Wait... Is this really an online wrestling school/course or did you just type the words wrong?