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  1. #226
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    That depends on the superhero.

    Spider-Man and Hulk aren't generally viewed as celebrities.
    I think within the universe, viewing heroes as something akin to celebrities makes a degree of sense. Especially for a world like Marvel, where superheroes are supposed to be a relatively new development, the public would try to make connections between heroes and established cultural structures in an effort to "make sense" of these costumed, flying godlings.

    Granted, in many ways heroes are closer to soldiers, cops, and first responders than they are celebrities, but that division in perception also seems to fuel a number of narratives too; pretty much any time people question what a hero's role is and what they're responsible/accountable for, it seems to me it's the public trying to figure out if heroes are more "soldier" or more "celebrity."

    So sure, when Iron Man flies down and saves someone from getting hit by a truck, it makes sense to me that people would swarm him with cameras the same way a famous celebrity would get swarmed if he revealed himself at the grocery store.
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  2. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    think within the universe, viewing heroes as something akin to celebrities makes a degree of sense. IEspecially for a world like Marvel, where superheroes are supposed to be a relatively new development, the public would try to make connections between heroes and established cultural structures in an effort to "make sense" of these costumed, flying godlings...
    That is one way to see it. Alternatively, in an environment where superhumans (or at least the notice of superhumans by current civilization) are a relatively new development, they might just as likely be seen as threatening or freakish by the public. Lee and his collaborators actually took that route in Marvel's early days. Even popular, widely accepted groups, like the Fantastic Four, would periodically get angry and suspicious reactions from the ordinary masses, while Spider-Man and the X-Men were generally regarded with outright hostility.

  3. #228
    The One Above All 616MarvelYear is LeapYear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    It's like relating to cops or military people.
    I will never-ever equate 'super hero' to 'cop' or 'military'. Never-ever!
    To me, this comes across that only people who are either a cop or military are super heroes and nobody else!
    They don't go home and pretend to be Jim the lawyer or Pete the reporter after hours.
    I will never-ever look down on marvel characters who are either lawyers Matt Murdock or photographers for a newspaper Peter Parker having a super hero identity as well.
    Now that I mentioned the marvel character Matt Murdock:
    Karen selling Daredevil's true identity...

    Kingpin, knowing Daredevil's true identity, using this to systematically destroy Matt Murdock's life...

    Matt realizing Kingpin is the one behind it all...


    Why doesn't any other Marvel super-villain do
    this
    to any other Marvel super-hero as well???
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  4. #229
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    With how often his secret identity has been exposed I don't know why Matt even bothers with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by 616MarvelYear is LeapYear View Post
    Why doesn't any other Marvel super-villain do
    this
    to any other Marvel super-hero as well???
    [/CENTER]
    Most super villains don't have those kinds of resources and there is the issue of retaliation. Kingpin doing this to Matt just made Matt that much more dangerous and a lot of superheroes in the Marvel universe aren't against lethal force.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 10-18-2019 at 11:21 PM.

  5. #230
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    With how often his secret identity has been exposed I don't know why Matt even bothers with it.



    Most super villains don't have those kinds of resources and there is the issue of retaliation. Kingpin doing this to Matt just made Matt that much more dangerous and a lot of superheroes in the Marvel universe aren't against lethal force.
    Green Goblin (Norman and Harry Osborn) and Venom (Eddie Brock) came closest with Spider-Man, but they settled for personally harassing him rather than trying to dismantle his entire life in the same systemic manner as the Kingpin with Daredevil. Of course, there was a story in the early 2000s where Norman came closer to doing something like what Fisk tried with Matt, mostly to push Peter to kill him, which Peter ultimately refused to do when he saw Norman for the miserable wretch he really was and decided it would be a better punishment for Norman to have to continue living with himself.
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  6. #231
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    I only like secret identities when it makes sense for the character. Spider-Man is a good example of that. But... Captain America, Iron Man, Captain Marvel, Thor, Hulk? I don't think it makes a lot of sense in those cases.

    Daredevil is a distinct case where I think the best status quo is "used to have a secret identity". I wouldn't want him being one of those characters where it doesn't make much of an impact that his identity is public. But the part where his identity came out and upended his life is a nice distinguishing factor.

  7. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by H-E-D View Post
    I only like secret identities when it makes sense for the character. Spider-Man is a good example of that. But... Captain America, Iron Man, Captain Marvel, Thor, Hulk? I don't think it makes a lot of sense in those cases.
    What do you mean by make sense, specifically?

  8. #233
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    I'll let H-E-D answer for themselves, but as someone who thinks kinda the same thing, it just means that it has to serve a purpose in their lives beyond just keeping their superheroing secret for the hell of it, it shouldn't be done just because tradition or whatever.

    It doesn't have to be a huge reason, it could just be the desire to lead a normal life out of the public eye, like Squirrel Girl until recently, but something that means something to them. Spider-Man is protecting his family and loved ones, Squirrel Girl wants to live a relatively normal life, Ms Marvel is sort of a combo of both those things, Daredevil before his cover was blown used it to preserve his law practice, and also protect loved ones, etc. those are fine. But not every character will share those reasons. Someone like Thor... what exactly did he actually gain (beyond the lesson learned initially) by maintaining a double life? all his loved ones besides Jane were Asgardians or other superheroes, so... it felt like it was done more out of tradition than anything to have him continue using it, and keep the wish fulfillment power fantasy going for readers, i guess, but in universe it served little to no purpose at all, and I hope it never returns.

    some other characters more story drama can be gained by them having their cover blown, like Bruce Banner/Hulk, it makes good story sense for him to WANT to keep the Hulk a secret, but failing after some time, because people being afraid of him because of what they know he can turn into is interesting story potential to tap into.
    Last edited by Raye; 10-19-2019 at 05:28 PM.

  9. #234
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    Squirrel Girl has always had a public identity until the current series decided to ignore all previous continuity with the character and essentially make her somebody else.
    Good Marvel characters- Bring Them Back!!!

  10. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    What do you mean by make sense, specifically?
    Lots of times when people say that it is because they havenít read any of the past stories and or heavily associate the characters with the movie versions.
    Good Marvel characters- Bring Them Back!!!

  11. #236
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtW95 View Post
    Lots of times when people say that it is because they haven’t read any of the past stories and or heavily associate the characters with the movie versions.
    I just explained my reasons, and no, it's not that.

  12. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    I just explained my reasons, and no, it's not that.
    Except you apparently didn’t know that Squirrel Girl never had a secret identity before the solo series that erased he prior characterization.
    Good Marvel characters- Bring Them Back!!!

  13. #238
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Or I was just explaining her reasoning in the current series. And let's not even get into the gatekeepy mentality you are suggesting where if you don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of the entire history of the books, your opinion doesn't matter. You continually act like anyone who doesn't want everything all classic or whatever is some new fan who will get bored any second now and wander off to leave things to the 'true' fans, which is ridiculous strawmanning. I have been reading since the 90's, I'm not going anywhere, and my desire to see things move forward and not be hampered by traditions of the past isn't because i am new, like you seem to always assume.
    Last edited by Raye; 10-19-2019 at 05:58 PM.

  14. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    Or I was just explaining her reasoning in the current series. You continually act like anyone who doesn't want everything all classic or whatever is some new fan who will get bored any second now and wander off to leave things to the 'true' fans, which is ridiculous strawmanning. I have been reading since the 90's, I'm not going anywhere, and my desire to see things move forward and not be hampered by traditions of the past isn't because i am new, like you seem to always assume.
    Lots of ways to move forward with a character that doesn’t force the core traits of said character or the medium to be thrown away. We had that until very recently when the genre has been overrun with untalented and lazy creators who have killed business.
    Good Marvel characters- Bring Them Back!!!

  15. #240
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Well, I disagree that core traits have been thrown aside, or that the creators are untalented or lazy. I quite like the books right now, for the most part.

    and they have not killed business.


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