Does anyone else miss secret identities?

[Killerbee911]

I don't have problems secret identities (other than domino mask) I think a small few like Iron Man, Batman because of their Resources and Flash,Superman because of their Power set can work outside having a larger agency cover for them but for most them an Agency or Group who is actively working to cover them makes the most sense in modern setting. To me it make more sense Shield finds out Daredevil and Spider-man are heroes makes contact with them and says we will allow you to be hero and keep your identity safe if you work along with us some times. Then stories are exactly same except that Shield would cover up mistakes they made along the way and make sure there family is safe. Then simple question why can't a hacker get spider-man info or why reporter or over zealous detective finding out secret identity never is able to tell anyone else because Shield suppress it.

It is basically like that in Marvel but they need to more official in how it is done. All the questions of liability, the government allowing this and responsibility are covered by an agency giving heroes some legitimacy in their comic world. Now you might lose the daredevil and spiderman is vigilante angle gain logic about how they are allowed to operate in society who has rules. And simple thing where Shield is responable for tracking every super human activity and when they track them down they give the choice of hero card which allows to be continue being hero or tells them stop makes more sense the current set up.

I think you can get your secret identities stories in a set up like that sort in the same way secret agents stories work. They are plenty of stories where agents have normal life until their cover is blown. You get the normal life and issues that come along with it but you get legitimacy of them being able to hide realistically in the world. To set up better suspension of disbelief you have to tell better lies,The key to good lie is telling some truth in it. I don't heroes being operate themselves is a good lie anymore

[Agent Z]

This really is an example of someone interested in the wrong medium of entertainment. Who in the world would ever want to read comic where in every issue the hero chats up the bad guys and waits for the cops to get there?

No one. Which is why that isn't what Tiamatty was actually suggesting.

Again, I am not trying to offend anyone. However, this is logic that has infested the medium and is in large why the industry as a whole is steadily declining.

The industry is declining because of poor business decisions like saturating the market with event comics and relying only on the direct market. Not because Marvel decided to abandon secret identities for the most part.

Wrong. The Guardians of Oa give them the mask more then likely so they have the option of doing the job while still being able to take of themselves if they decide not to live on OA. This gives them the ability to survive on their own or continue to purse there own desires outside of the Lantern Core. The Lantern then can decide if they want to forgo that option by going mask less and deal with the consequences of that decision as they present themselves. But the Guardians at the very least provide them with the opportunity.

The Guardians don't give them the masks. The Lanterns do that themselves.

[DragonsChi]

No one. Which is why that isn't what Tiamatty was actually suggesting.




The industry is declining because of poor business decisions like saturating the market with event comics and relying only on the direct market. Not because Marvel decided to abandon secret identities for the most part.





The Guardians don't give them the masks. The Lanterns do that themselves.

1. His/her line of discourse leaves no other conclusion.
2. Poor Business decisions is correct. Those being caving into ideas that go directly against their intrench genre that their core readers gravitate towards.
3. Originally the mask was apart of the standard GL uniform. Now the Guardians, as always, give/allow them to wear mask as they see fit because of all the reasons I have stated.

[DragonsChi]

double post

[Baseman]

Not at all. You can absolutely do superhero stories that apply real-world laws and rules. What that would mean is superheroes being employed as police. The superhero genre can absolutely do that. Marvel can't. But the superhero genre is bigger than just Marvel and DC.

True.This is something My hero academia does really well.However I think part of the appeal of Western capes is the 'rebel against authority' undertones.So the idea wouldn't work as well with some franchises.

Part of the point of Batman,for example, is that law enforcement (for the most part) is corrupt/inefficient in dealing with Gothams criminal element.

[Carabas]

1. His/her line of discourse leaves no other conclusion.
3. Originally the mask was apart of the standard GL uniform. Now the Guardians, as always, give/allow them to wear mask as they see fit because of all the reasons I have stated.

When Hal first met the dying Abin Sur, Abin was without a mask.
When Hal first activated the Lantern, his uniform did not come with a mask. He added that detail himself.

[DrNewGod]

Oh come on...

In Marvel/DC superhero comics, the secret identity trope is used most of all as a source of cheap relationship drama and angst, not protection of anything. Been that way since the Clark loves Lois but Lois loves Superman abomination.

It does get used that way, as it has from The Scarlet Pimpernel on down, but that's not the only way it gets used. Superman's Clark Kent also allowed him to surreptitiously investigate, from the very beginning. Batman's disgusie was intended as a psychological weapon. Spider-Man's was intended to help him feel less foolish (if the wrestling thing had gone wrong). In addition to the romantic trope, Daredevil's secret I'd was also meant to a) prevent his disbarment, and b) conceal his blindness and disguise the nature of his advantages.

I get you don't like the relationship melodrama shortcut built into it. I disagree, but I understand you. You are wrong to imply that it is the only thing the trope is used for. As to your earlier contention that heroes don't lie in their relationships, some don't.

[hedgehogvampire]

It's really a case by case basis. The new teen heroes should keep their secret ids, that just makes sense. I'm not in favor of bringing them back for characters who haven't had one in years, hat just feels like regression.

I also agree with this. It really do depends on the character.

I actually don't really miss the secret identities, it was cool for the time being but i prefer the characters to not have to hide who they are. i just like the concept a lot better than having to hide who they really are

Yes to this. I never liked it when characters had to hide who they were to their their friends and love ones. Most of the time it felt like a cheap way to have drama. And it unintentionally made it look like the heroes didn't trust their friends or loved ones at times.

Oh come on...

In Marvel/DC superhero comics, the secret identity trope is used most of all as a source of cheap relationship drama and angst, not protection of anything. Been that way since the Clark loves Lois but Lois loves Superman abomination.

This is a major reason why I'm glad secret identities aren't used as much anymore. This use to drive me up the wall, especially as a child. I absolutely hated that.

Oddly enough it was never because of real world logic that made me dislike secret identities, I could totally buy how a comic book universe having the technology or magic to keep a person identity a secret or what not. I just really hated the concept of heroes hiding their identity from their friends and family. I totally understand keeping your identity from random citizens who are strangers. But it always feel a little stupid to me that someone would keep their friends and family in the dark. Now I can understand why kid heroes keep secret identities, especially since the adults in their lives probably won't be so into their child putting them selves in danger. But overall I just don't like the drama that comes comes with hiding secret identities.

[hedgehogvampire]

Sorry double post. The site was being stupid.

[Agent Z]

1. His/her line of discourse leaves no other conclusion.

By saying that superheroes should only use force when necessary? How does that translate to only wanting to read comics where no fights happen?

2. Poor Business decisions is correct. Those being caving into ideas that go directly against their intrench genre that their core readers gravitate towards.

The Fantastic Four have gone their entire publication history without secret identities. The Hulk’s identity as Bruce Banner was revealed as early at the 1960s. Tony revealed his identity to the public in the 2000s. Exactly what is Marvel doing that is against what their core readers gravitate to?

[Tiamatty]

This really is an example of someone interested in the wrong medium of entertainment. Who in the world would ever want to read comic where in every issue the hero chats up the bad guys and waits for the cops to get there? This is not want the Superhero genre is about at all.

Again, I am not trying to offend anyone. However, this is logic that has infested the medium and is in large why the industry as a whole is steadily declining.

First: Superheroes are a genre, not a medium. Comics are a medium. And comics can absolutely do stories that are all about people talking. In fact, a lot of comics are about exactly that. There are tons of amazing comics that don't feature a single punch being thrown. Second: There's a difference between a burglar and the Green Goblin. When the bad guy is attempting murder, using violence to stop him is entirely reasonable.

Third: The industry isn't declining. The comic book industry is actually pretty stable. Comics are doing just fine. And with publishers like Random House starting up graphic novel imprints, the industry's only going to get bigger.

[Alan2099]

I wonder if the ones advocating for Superheroes to follow the proper procedures and being answerable to government authorities cheered Reed and Tonys actions during civil war.

This reminds me of all the old Civil War discussions we had when it was new. The whole thing never made sense to me.

"Okay. I know you're a vigilante, and we're going to let you keep being a vigilante, but you have to follow the rules."
If somebody is putting on a mask to fight crime, odds are they're not going to follow your rules. If they wanted to, they would have become cops instead. Most crime fighters put on their masks and tights to do things that the law won't or can't do. You can't tell them they can keep doing that, but they have to follow the law.

This is especially true when dealing with people like Red Skull, Kingpin, and Dr. Doom who could easily thwart any legal means to stop them.

[Frontier]

Marvel should have thought of that before they started calling their universe "the world outside your window". Marvel's been applying or trying to apply real world rules to their stories from the beginning.

That hasn't been true for Marvel for decades.

I mean, I don't see Celestial, Guardians of the Galaxy, or large group of people in spandex running around my neck of the woods.

Spider-Man can just, you know, hold the burglar until police arrive. No punching, no webbing, just gently preventing the burglar from leaving the scene until someone who is actually authorized to actually goddamn do something about a burglary arrives.

Spider-Man's idea of holding a criminal is to web them up, which probably saves him time so he can get to another crime that he has to deal with.

No, Batman absolutely should not be allowed to hang someone over a ledge. No. No no no no no no no. No. That is absolutely not something he should be allowed to do. If he's hanging the guy off a ledge, then the suspect is subdued and no longer an immediate threat. Which means that Batman is no longer acting in self-defence. He is, in fact, threatening murder. It is wildly illegal, for so many reasons. So no, it is not something he should be allowed to do, and it is something that should land his ass in prison.

A lot of what Batman does is illegal, but modern Batman would probably be nowhere near as effective (or exist) if he was completely bound by the law and legality.

Not at all. You can absolutely do superhero stories that apply real-world laws and rules. What that would mean is superheroes being employed as police. The superhero genre can absolutely do that. Marvel can't. But the superhero genre is bigger than just Marvel and DC.

You can definitely do Superhero stories that are more realistic or apply real-world consequences to them, but I don't think that approach would work in the universes of the Big Two.

As you allude to, there are a wide variety of stories you can tell with the Superhero genre.

And yet the only ones who did that were Hal and Kyle. An organization of millions, if not billions, of members and only two people felt the need to hide their identity and they happen to come from a planet where people think law enforcers should be anonymous. The Green Lantern animated series even had Kilowog make fun of Hal for this.

Hal and Kyle are also one of the few Earth Lanterns who actually have personal lives on Earth, so it necessitated them hiding their identities.

The joke with Kilowog was that, because Hal was stuck in space, the reason he had his mask on was basically pointless.

But Hal wouldn't really look like Hal without the domino mask.

On another note: It's pretty bad that superheroes keep their identities secret from their loved ones. It is wildly irresponsible of Peter Parker not to tell Aunt May that he's Spider-Man. That ****'s the kind of thing your family really deserves to know.

I think it depends on the Aunt May we're talking about.

Classic 616 Aunt May with her health issues and dislike of Spider-Man would not have taken learning Peter's identity well.

And I can see a few Aunt May's who would probably have forbid Peter from being Spider-Man, which is part of why he never told her.

But in his adult years it is kind of ridiculous that he hasn't told her yet.

Speaking of Aunt May, remember when she and Betty Brant got kidnapped by the Sinister Six to draw Spider-Man out despite the Six having no idea Spider-Man was Peter Parker?

Did they kidnap them because they were actually affiliated with Peter Parker or was it just random? I forget.

But let's compare that to what happened when Spider-Man's identity was public knowledge. Mary Jane was almost arrested, Aunt May got shot, and several Supervillains came after them directly.

[wubwub]

But let's compare that to what happened when Spider-Man's identity was public knowledge. Mary Jane was almost arrested, Aunt May got shot, and several Supervillains came after them directly.

I'm fairly certain that only happened after he joined Captain America. At that point he lost legal protection.

I think secret identities are important for some characters, specifically teenage heroes, who do not want their parents to find out. Unfortunately, at least as far as I can tell, no writer has been able to give a convincing reason why Spider-Man and Daredevil, among others, should keep their identities hidden, as it undermines their core principles (at least for me).
Protection from retaliating villains is a bad excuse imo. If one villain discovers the real identity, all friends and family members are unprotected if the police/SHIELD or other superheroes are unaware. If they know however, contingencies and patrols can be implemented, should a villain escape custody. I'm not an expert, but I assume that's how it works in real life as well.

[Alan2099]

If one villain discovers the real identity, all friends and family members are unprotected if the police/SHIELD or other superheroes are unaware. If they know however, contingencies and patrols can be implemented, should a villain escape custody.

Should a villain escape custody? If their identities are public then ALL the villains know, and every wannabe just starting out villain knows. What better way for a newcomer to make a name for himself that ambushing Spider-man at at home and killing him?

Contingencies and patrols? What kind of patrol do you set up for the Sinister Six? Maybe nobody has heard from the Human Meteor for years and years but once he comes back, what's stopping him from going right to Spider-man's home address and killing everyone he finds there?

Really, at that point, you're talking about around the clock protection needed for all Peter's loved ones.

It's a lot safer NOT having anybody know who Spider-man is than having his real name, phone number, and address passed out inn the bar with no name.