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  1. #1
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Default Azz’s run(new 52) vs Rucka’s run(rebirth)

    Both had been the foundation lay down foundation. Both tell a different retelling from each other . What are the best and worst of each of their runs

  2. #2
    Incredible Member RepHope's Avatar
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    Azz made the gods interesting. I’ve found them incredibly boring and dull outside of his run. Rucka made Diana’s supporting cast and Rogues interesting. I never really “clicked” with Cheetah and Cale was just discount FemLuthor to me. Now I get them and I really enjoy them. I understand Diana’s relationship with Trevor and Etta as well.

  3. #3
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    One main problem with Azz's is at times the few characters are badly treated. For example Hades wife. The Amazons also. The male characters can feel more at times the stars than Diana.

  4. #4
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Azz had Cliff Chiang, which I think is the best thing about his run. Rucka had Nicola Scott and Bilquis Evely (Sharp is good, but I thought he was the least appealing to me of the three main artists attached to Rucka's second run).

    I really, really hate the way Azz wrote the Amazons - as bullies and murderers. I know there's some people on the boards who think it's more realistic - but I really loved the way Rucka portrayed the Amazons in his first run, so the new Amazons were just nasty and a real turnoff for me.

    Rucka's present plot tended to be much weaker than his past plot, I think, except for the Steve and Diana romance.
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  5. #5
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    I really liked Azz's interpretation with Diana being an actual demi-goddess and not beholden to the "patrons" for her powers. The amazons population issue was also addressed but the amazons' murder of their one-night standers teed off (understandably) some readers. Maybe it would have been better to just magically erase memories. Also enjoyed the arcs involving Diana's Olympian relatives and her beat-down of Artermis/Moon was classic.
    Last edited by raidensix; 07-31-2018 at 03:57 PM.

  6. #6
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Azz's run hooked me on Wonder Woman and is now one of her best Elseworld's run, since it has become non-canon for the most part (heck, the whole lot of it). I hate Rucka's Rebirth run with a passion, it almost entirely destroyed any interest I had in the character, to the point that I hoped his run would flop hard. Hopefully, Orlando's and then G. Willow Wilson's run will be great, finally.

  7. #7
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    Azz's run hooked me on Wonder Woman and is now one of her best Elseworld's run, since it has become non-canon for the most part (heck, the whole lot of it). I hate Rucka's Rebirth run with a passion, it almost entirely destroyed any interest I had in the character, to the point that I hoped his run would flop hard. Hopefully, Orlando's and then G. Willow Wilson's run will be great, finally.
    Disagree with the hate for Rucka's Rebirth run.
    While it may have lost a bit towards the end, it was trying to bring some sense to all the divergent versions of the character.
    NOTE: I didn't read the Finch's New52 run. Was too afraid it would abandon what Azzarello and Chiang had done in favor of the Geoff Johns' version from Justice League. Also, that preview to their first issue left me not wanting to actually pay for it.


  8. #8
    Incredible Member astro@work's Avatar
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    What I loved in the Azz run was the new interpretations of the Gods, how they interacted with the human world, and Diana's new relationship to them.
    I'm definitely in the minority, but I always hated the clay origin, and liked the Zeus-as-father twist. I liked the self-confidence and old school vive of the Amazons.

    What I didn't like with the Azz run: all of the well known supporting characters were gone or barely used: Hippolyta, Steve, Etta, Phillipus, Cassie, Donna.
    I also didn't like the violence of the Amazons (and the way that played out in the Finch extension with Donna's new horrific origin).

    What I did like about the Rucka run: the real supporting cast back in play, new takes on classic villains, Hippolyta alive again, and the overall story and year one.
    Great art, great characterization, great connectivity between the two parallel stories. Steve and Etta and Barbara back in play as they always should have been.

    What I didn't like about the Rucka run: once again the rug is pulled out from Diana's history. Donna's backstory undone yet again (and even more ludicrous holding onto the horrible new origin when Diana would have been long gone from the island when Donna emerged...no, not Rucka's choice just a side effect). Again, I did like the Rucka storylines overall. But writing off the Azz run as a "false memory" undid a lot of very recent storytelling.

    If I had to rate one over the other I'd pick Rucka, but I did enjoy the Azzarello run as well.

  9. #9
    Incredible Member Joao's Avatar
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    Not gonna lie: Azzarello was the first Wonder Woman comics I've read and it made me fall in love with her. I was in a limbo after the end of Percy Jackson at the time and looking me some Greek myth based fiction, so I found an amazing one in new 52. Today, having read other WW stuff, I understand why there is much there not to like. But, still, I think he did an amazing thing with the Greek mythology. The reimagination of the gods is by far his greatest contribution, and Hera and Strife were delightful. It's a shame he didn't seem that interested in Wonder Woman's lore and had other priorities.

    Rucka, on the other hand, loves Diana a lot, and that is his greatest strength. Year One is an instant classic, and what he did with Diana's villains, especially the Cheetah, is one of the best treatment a Wonder Woman character has ever received. I'm not a fan of what he did to erase the new 52: seemed too complicated and long for me, and it had some plot holes. But the statement about Diana being Diana, no matter what her origin is, was a good touch considering her convoluted origins that always come and go.

    In a nutshell, Rucka is great, but the scenario he had to deal with was not (as it was in his first run. That's why I love Hiketeia so much and I'm excited to his Diana's Daughter story). So I pick him over Azzarello.

  10. #10
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    I preferred Azz's run to Rucka though he did have a few good moments. The Amazons being rapists who murdered the ship crews after being impregnated gave Diana a real problem and so did their wanting to kill any male babies they bore from the murdered fathers with Hephasteus trading their lives with magical and god's weapons. Currently, the Amazons are limited to bow, spear, shield and sword unless those weapons have magical properties. They would have to have magical or high tech weapons to be able to contain Ares if he ever got out. That situation by Rucka didn't work for me as Ares is sane in his prison but would become monster villain if he ever got out with Diana unable to visit Paradise Island and Amazons unable to leave the island is also a bad idea. I was not impressed by his storytelling decisions. Hopefully, the new and hopefully regular writer will fix this situation. And yes, I did like Azz's giving Diana all those Olympian dysfunctional relatives. Hera, depowered, and forced to live with one of Zeus's one night stands who was pregnant was great and also when the baby, who was really Zeus, was born. The New Gods were great also including the mixed up Orion.

  11. #11
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Both Azz and Rucka had the amazons use Spears and swords. I find it hypocrisy that the amazons are rapist and Zeus is a rapist and Hippoltya is willing to sleep with one knowing that. Why can’t she just have slept with a regular man? Why do the amazons have to be rapist or murders. I would t have mind the sex pirates if only a few rogue amazons started doing that. I would have loved if writers went back to advance tech

  12. #12
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Both Azz and Rucka had the Amazons use Spears and swords. I find it hypocritical that the Amazons are rapist and Zeus is a rapist and Hippolyta is willing to sleep with one knowing that. Why can’t she just have slept with a regular man? Why do the Amazons have to be rapist or murders? I would t have minded the sex pirates if only a few rogue amazons started doing that. I would have loved if writers went back to advance tech. One problem is the Amazons don't matter in her origins. Everything was more on her father and the male gods, not the balance. Why bother with the Amazons? They made them so unlikeable that it shouldn't matter to Diana on saving them. They bullied her and would kill them. Why care for them as readers? We spent more time with Ares than the Amazons. We should like the Amazons.
    Last edited by AmiMizuno; 07-31-2018 at 02:58 PM.

  13. #13
    Incredible Member RepHope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Disagree with the hate for Rucka's Rebirth run.
    While it may have lost a bit towards the end, it was trying to bring some sense to all the divergent versions of the character.
    NOTE: I didn't read the Finch's New52 run. Was too afraid it would abandon what Azzarello and Chiang had done in favor of the Geoff Johns' version from Justice League. Also, that preview to their first issue left me not wanting to actually pay for it.

    You made the right call, their run is absolutely awful. People complain about Rucka undoing Azz's run, but the Finches had already done that. Rucka just sweeped out the ashes.

  14. #14
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Rucka had the better Amazons and Paradise Island pretty much by default, and his Cheetah was great. But beyond that I found everything else Azz did better. His intended plans with Orion would have sucked, but I can't count that since thankfully that was never able to happen.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 07-31-2018 at 03:26 PM.
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  15. #15
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Rucka, though both have their good points.

    Azzarello Positives:
    - Diana herself
    - Chiang's artwork, especially the covers
    - The re-imaginings of the Gods, save for Aphrodite and (to a lesser extent) Athena. Of all the Gods to be underwhelming with, those two are pretty unfortunate examples, but the rest were great, particularly Hera, Strife and Hades.
    - Some of the new characters had potential, and Azzarello not using the classic characters at all is preferable to using them and using them poorly.

    Azzarello Negatives
    - The Amazons overall, despite a handful of good scenes, more towards the end
    - It drags in the middle
    - Orion and the New Gods being completely pointless additions, and Orion is an obnoxious pain in the ass
    - The First Born is more bearable while reading it in trade, and he's certainly vastly better than Grail, but he's still kind of a bore. Hera, Apollo and Hades were better antagonists
    - The lack of classic supporting characters and villains, though that's more of a personal annoyance than an objective criticism.

    Rucka Positives
    - Diana herself
    - Best take on the Cheetah ever, she's practically the deutragonist of the run
    - The Amazons restored to being positive role models for Diana with their advancements
    - Veronica Cale going from one of my least favorite WW villains to easily being in my top 5; Dr. Cyber's revamp
    - Although he didn't blow me away with his writing of them, I'm glad Rucka used Steve and Etta
    - The artwork from all three artists

    Rucka Negatives
    - The present day stories are weaker; they are about as clear as they could be considering the options available, but I wish the broad strokes of the New 52 era could be kept aside from the Amazons and we didn't have to waste time on it on a monthly basis
    - Col. Poison is kind of bland
    - Not his fault, but the rest of DC didn't take advantage of the Lies and fix Donna once and for all, and she's now worse than she's ever been before

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