Azz’s run(new 52) vs Rucka’s run(rebirth)

[Korath]

What makes Rucka's run great ? All the character were either bland (Trevor, Etta, Diana, etc.), absolutely uninteresting (Cheetah, whom he failed to ever make me care about her, and ended his run with her evil again with the stupidest reasons, instead of truly seeking a way to be uncursed as she had been early on in the run; etc.), and generally offering a boring story (well, two boring stories) which pleased only the old crowd instead of developing or creating anything, all the while ditching arrogantly and quite inelegantly the previous five years, making Diana a whore, good for easy sex and nothing else. There is nothing of worth in Rucka's run. Nothing. If he had been less egotistical and used Rebirth (which was never advertised as a reboot, unlike the New 52!) to build upon Jason, Diana and her comic wouldn't be in the sorry state they are in today, after two years of aimless and frankly bad stories.

And his Amazons were exactly as I expect the "perfect little princesses" that peoples apparently want them to be : useless, boring and utterly uninteresting, bringing nothing at all to the story.

[AmiMizuno]

We don’t know if they are perfect for one and two for me I Rucka’s version you like Azz’s th . Perez did it better with the amazons aren’t perfect. I mean he made them comeplete jerks. We are talking about women Diana advent her life with why make all of them u likable? You can make them not perfect but there is a different between that and marking them rapist and murders not. Bullies . Serial Rapist and murders seems like a good idea.

[Amazon Swordsman]

For the atrocities the azzarellons were committing, one would wonder why the Justice League wasn’t brought in to make them pay for their actions...they never really had to own up to that.

[Joao]

What makes Rucka's run great ? All the character were either bland (Trevor, Etta, Diana, etc.), absolutely uninteresting (Cheetah, whom he failed to ever make me care about her, and ended his run with her evil again with the stupidest reasons, instead of truly seeking a way to be uncursed as she had been early on in the run; etc.), and generally offering a boring story (well, two boring stories) which pleased only the old crowd instead of developing or creating anything, all the while ditching arrogantly and quite inelegantly the previous five years, making Diana a whore, good for easy sex and nothing else. There is nothing of worth in Rucka's run. Nothing. If he had been less egotistical and used Rebirth (which was never advertised as a reboot, unlike the New 52!) to build upon Jason, Diana and her comic wouldn't be in the sorry state they are in today, after two years of aimless and frankly bad stories.

And his Amazons were exactly as I expect the "perfect little princesses" that peoples apparently want them to be : useless, boring and utterly uninteresting, bringing nothing at all to the story.

Cheetah was arguably the most interesting she has ever been in terms of character development, and I don't think her reasons are stupid. We never know for sure how her relation with power is like, and her ambition is certainly there. It makes it all more blurred. She is said to be a controversial archaeologist and doesn't wait a second until telling Diana the terrorrists are bad men and need to be punished. When Steve says at the end she turned into the Cheetah again because she needed to, we don't know for sure if he's right or wrong. She declares herself a god after all. Does she really and deeply prefer to be a human?

Also, Rucka has subtle ways to make things interesting. He made the mother/daughter relation between Diana and Hippolyta less obvious (she didn't even need to forbid the contest to show how much pain Lyta was feeling). Diana and Steve's paralelled pannels were fantastic. Diana crying and wanting to go home in face of adversity was very relatable. The gods were not over the top. He made a point about Diana's character, about seeking for truth, about terrorrism and violence not being humanity's true core... And that only in Year One.

Steve is good but not perfect, and Etta is, yeah, a bit bland (although her outfits and scenes at the mall/bar made her a little more interesting and fun like Marston's). But I appreciate his willingness to respect the tradition, putting Etta and Steve in the army again, making them Diana's age.

Rucka was far from egotistic. He has a true appreciation for the character and wanted to do her right. He might have put some of his creations there, but did a lot more than creating new things for the sake of shock (like Jason, Daddy Zeus, rapist amazons and all the stuff people like Geoff Johns and Azzarello did).

[AmiMizuno]

There was little no Hippoltya relationships in new 52. Which was more due to her being turned into clay. What is there any to say with the amazons? Children are allowed to bully Diana and her having friends. The only time we see any adults doing anything is when she is trying to kill Alecka. Perez showed us that. Also there have been interesting arcs through Wonder Woman. So it’s not like Azz will be the only great arc. Now the ending of Azz could have been interesting set up. I think we both can at finches run was bad.

[adrikito]

I liked Azz run, nothing more to add.

I never saw Rucka run, I only heard things about this run.

[SiegePerilous02]

(Cheetah, whom he failed to ever make me care about her, and ended his run with her evil again with the stupidest reasons, instead of truly seeking a way to be uncursed as she had been early on in the run; etc.),

Except Barbara Ann never really wanted to be un-cursed, she wanted the power without the drawbacks, and deluded herself into thinking Cale could get it to her while knowing on some level she couldn't. She then deflects all blame and responsibility for her own actions, but despite declaring herself evil, she was never evil. She's more layered than that.

What the hell was Cassandra's motivation, may I ask?

all the while ditching arrogantly and quite inelegantly the previous five years,

He was doing what DC was telling him to do, same as Azzarello was. Both of them have hints of arrogance in the way they present their takes in relation to previous takes. I find Azzarello-by-way-of-Diana saying nothing can grow from perfection kind of arrogant, as it implies that the Amazons were perfect before, which anyone who actually bothered to read the previous run would see that they are not. And there is a wide gap between being flawed and chucking a baby off a cliff

making Diana a whore, good for easy sex and nothing else.

Diana's use of the word "easy" does not mean what you think it means. This has been discussed before.

Even if it was, your word choice is is very poor, IMO. A woman who likes sex is not a whore.

There is nothing of worth in Rucka's run. Nothing. If he had been less egotistical and used Rebirth (which was never advertised as a reboot, unlike the New 52!) to build upon Jason, Diana and her comic wouldn't be in the sorry state they are in today, after two years of aimless and frankly bad stories.

We've had aimless years worth of stories with Jason, but you think Rucka using him would have solved that? What? Jason getting so much focus at the expense of Diana is a major problem that Rucka had nothing to do with. Jason came and went and affected nothing except our patience. Rucka's foundation is still in place and sounds like Wilson can run with it. Nobody asked for Jason, it was a lousy idea that should have been seriously questioned.

And his Amazons were exactly as I expect the "perfect little princesses" that peoples apparently want them to be : useless, boring and utterly uninteresting, bringing nothing at all to the story.

How are they perfect?

They are good role models who raised Diana and made her the hero she is. Why is that so offensive and boring to you? Is there no room for ONE mainstrem book to be built around women empowering one another?

[Sacred Knight]

For the atrocities the azzarellons were committing, one would wonder why the Justice League wasn’t brought in to make them pay for their actions...they never really had to own up to that.

That's not really their jurisdiction. I mean, its a generally continuing thing that the League is very careful one what sorts of things they'll involve themselves in just in other countries. Amazons from an interdimensional island sexing up sailors then killing them on the high seas I imagine is a slippery slope for intervention as well.

[Carabas]

That's not really their jurisdiction. I mean, its a generally continuing thing that the League is very careful one what sorts of things they'll involve themselves in just in other countries. Amazons from an interdimensional island sexing up sailors then killing them on the high seas I imagine is a slippery slope for intervention as well.

And it only happens every 30 years, the last time IIRC some time before Diana was born.
So when exactly would the JLA have put a stop to it?

[brettc1]

That's not really their jurisdiction. I mean, its a generally continuing thing that the League is very careful one what sorts of things they'll involve themselves in just in other countries. Amazons from an interdimensional island sexing up sailors then killing them on the high seas I imagine is a slippery slope for intervention as well.

Really? Because Themyscira never signed any United Nations charter, and if a bunch of aliens started operating on Earth luring people to their death there wouldn't be any question of the League getting involved.

[Sacred Knight]

Good point Carabas, I had forgotten that factoid.

[Carabas]

Really? Because Themyscira never signed any United Nations charter, and if a bunch of aliens started operating on Earth luring people to their death there wouldn't be any question of the League getting involved.

If they do it only once every 30 year, and the last time was maybe 20 years before the League even existed...

[Stanlos]

Both had been the foundation lay down foundation. Both tell a different retelling from each other . What are the best and worst of each of their runs

Best of Azz:
Godfather like vibe and intra family intrigue
Chiang art

Worst of Azz
Seemed to mock, berate or tear down her mythos, legend, and her gear(see business with the Amazons and her origin)
Shifted focus to Zeus and the Gods
Contained a plethora of toxic tropes like Hippolyte and the affair with Zeus or the situation with Highfather
Diana rarely seems able to triumph on her own especially versus First Born

[Stanlos]

Both had been the foundation lay down foundation. Both tell a different retelling from each other . What are the best and worst of each of their runs

Best of Rucka (Rebirth)
WW and the Amazons are more akin to their proper selves and do not seem reviled by the writer
Use/highlight of the tradition of Logos in Amazon tradition
WW as warmonger/Xena clone is absent
Loving celebration of the many runs prior to Flashpoint/new 52
Revamp of classic WW villains and classic cast
Use of regal and mysterious approach to the Gods (also a negative for me as his first go-round was phenomenal with the Gods/mythology)
Cinematic and Epic retelling of origin
Interesting use of Disney Princess animal trope
Issue 25
SISTERHOOD!

Worst of Ruck (Rebirth)
The bizarre and jarring switch to Thou's, Est's and like during the first Ares confrontation
It ended and seems completely ignored in favor anti-WW stuff from Johns and others

[Stanlos]

The above take is completely opposite from mine.

Agreed. Especially the most powerful bit.From Flashpoint onward it looked to me as though WW lost a LOT of her wonder. It seemed in some cases they wanted to outright spit in the face of the character's legend. Azz had her for example as demonstrably slower than Hermes. She was Someone Who Can't very often.

But to each their own I suppose.