MAN OF STEEL - 5 years later and the easy fixes.

[Agent Z]

This. God this. Snyder was never going to let Supes be the "classic Supes" unless he forced at gunpoint to do so. Snyder just doesn't find that characterization interesting, he's only interested in Superman the symbol and Superman the powerhouse. Cavill is never given the opportunity to actually talk about why he does what he does, he's simply the plot device the stories revolve around. And before you bring up that JL ending scene, that only happened because they cancelled Part 2 and forced Snyder to make JL stand-alone, and it STILL got rewritten by Whedon apparently.

Making JL a two parter wasn't Snyder's idea. And could you point out where it wa stated Whedon re-wrote that part? I get you hate Snyder but it seems you'll buy any rumor about the guy that paints him as the devil.

[RepHope]

Making JL a two parter wasn't Snyder's idea. And could you point out where it wa stated Whedon re-wrote that part? I get you hate Snyder but it seems you'll buy any rumor about the guy that paints him as the devil.

I'd like a citation for that.

And apparently Adams monologue at the end was originally given to Cyborg's dad who Snyder planned to kill off (seriously Zack?). Whedon gave those lines to Adams for the final scene. https://t.co/soSQsTTcyQ

[stargazer01]

Making JL a two parter wasn't Snyder's idea. And could you point out where it wa stated Whedon re-wrote that part? I get you hate Snyder but it seems you'll buy any rumor about the guy that paints him as the devil.

Snyder himself said on Vero he was going to do JL part 1 and part 2.

And pretty sure Jay Oliva said the same thing, but after the reception to BvS, WB changed the plan and turned it into just one JL movie. And they hired Whedon to fix Snyder's cut.

[DochaDocha]

Third act was the biggest problem for me. I agree that showing him saving a 2 or 3 people would worked so well and instead of having him and Lois( I dont know why she was on that plane in the first place.) make out on top of dead bodies show Ckark's sadness to all the destruction.

Also him fighting that tentacle ship on the other side wasnt needed at all. Should have been destroyed immediately to not drag the third act any further.

Third act is kind of dull, in comparison. Fighting the machine in the Indian Ocean was the absolute most boring part of the movie. Kissing in the disaster zone was a bit of a misstep, for sure, but I don't agree with the criticism about putting Lois in the plane. There are a lot of instances in Superman stories in which it seems she's just tossed in there for whatever plot convenience, but in this case, if she's literally the only person who talked to the guy (sort of, holographic AI and all...) who knows how that stuff actually works, and her presence doesn't force any important personnel off the plane, then keep here there. It would be irresponsible not to use whatever addtional knowledge she might have as an asset. Granted, the real reason she's there is so that Superman can catch her when she's falling off the plane, but the setup actually works out pretty well.

[JAK]

This. God this. Snyder was never going to let Supes be the "classic Supes" unless he forced at gunpoint to do so. Snyder just doesn't find that characterization interesting, he's only interested in Superman the symbol and Superman the powerhouse. Cavill is never given the opportunity to actually talk about why he does what he does, he's simply the plot device the stories revolve around. And before you bring up that JL ending scene, that only happened because they cancelled Part 2 and forced Snyder to make JL stand-alone, and it STILL got rewritten by Whedon apparently.

I think it's important to point out that I don't think Snyder was operating in bad faith; I just feel he doesn't quite "get" the character and the shortcomings happened partially as a result. On the other hand, some of the larger ideas he has aren't bad - even inspired - but they have to be more thought-through (or at least vetted?) than it seemed to me; I was reminded of Chris Farley's interviewer character saying "remember that time when... that was cool" but with a slight twist "wouldn't it be cool if...". Good ideas, but not much in the follow-through.

However, I do think blaming WB in all of this has lots of merit; after all, they:
(1) hired Snyder in the first place; hiring a 4-hour movie director expected to craft 2-2.5 hr movies and blaming him when they don't work as well when cut down seems like a "them" problem as much as anything
(2) did what they always do when they see something not working - add Batman to it - when the last thing that was needed to "fix" things was *more* characters who require screen time in a mad dash to catch up to Marvel
(3) don't understand the character, themselves - kinda hard to hire a director to make something work when you don't know what works, yourself.

Lots of blame to go around, for sure. Between WW and the Shazam trailer, it looks like WB might finally have learned that square pegs and round holes don't mix. But we'll need to see a larger sampling of their output to know if that's really the case.

[Agent Z]

Snyder himself said on Vero he was going to do JL part 1 and part 2.

And pretty sure Jay Oliva said the same thing, but after the reception to BvS, WB changed the plan and turned it into just one JL movie. And they hired Whedon to fix Snyder's cut.

Did he say it was his idea?

[Agent Z]

I'd like a citation for that.

And apparently Adams monologue at the end was originally given to Cyborg's dad who Snyder planned to kill off (seriously Zack?). Whedon gave those lines to Adams for the final scene. https://t.co/soSQsTTcyQ

Um, nothing you said was mentioned in that link. The article even says he had more scenes Snyder shot that could potentially be used in a Cyborg movie that is apparently still happening.

[MosSuperman]

Third act is kind of dull, in comparison. Fighting the machine in the Indian Ocean was the absolute most boring part of the movie. Kissing in the disaster zone was a bit of a misstep, for sure, but I don't agree with the criticism about putting Lois in the plane. There are a lot of instances in Superman stories in which it seems she's just tossed in there for whatever plot convenience, but in this case, if she's literally the only person who talked to the guy (sort of, holographic AI and all...) who knows how that stuff actually works, and her presence doesn't force any important personnel off the plane, then keep here there. It would be irresponsible not to use whatever addtional knowledge she might have as an asset. Granted, the real reason she's there is so that Superman can catch her when she's falling off the plane, but the setup actually works out pretty well.

Yeah that makes sense. It's just we weren't really shown and Hamilton was the one to fix their little problem. I found her presence there unnecessary and it led to that kissing scene. Snyder did well in integrating Lois into the story and Clark's life, I just think he rushed it a bit to get to the Lois/Clark status quo.

[SmokeMonster]

Here's what I would have changed:

-Cut the Krypton opening in half, instead having some of that footage play over Jor El's story-time later on.

-Don't have Lois and Clark's first interaction be Clark cauterising a wound and Lois yelling in agony. Just have her get knocked out or something, catching a glimpse of Clark beforehand.

-Have the Smallville fight break out when Faora comes down to greet the humans on the runway. Have the fight end with Faora threatening Lois, and the two are taken aboard, ending the second act.

-Have Lois and a de-powered Clark sneaking around the ship, where we get some flirtation between the two. The ship eventually descends into Metropolis.

-At the world engine, Zod arrives as well in the scout ship, and there, the two do battle. The fight makes its way into the ship itself, floating in the air. Zod has the upper hand throughout, eventually putting Clark in a headlock, but Clark uses Zod's weakness against him, his inability to let go of the past, using his heat vision to blast the birthing chamber, breaking Zod's concentration and distracting him long enough for Clark to exit the ship and push it into the world engine, where Zod is de-powered, thus dying in the crash.

-When the phantom zone opens, everything from Krypton is sucked back in (explained earlier on by Jor El), and Lois falls from the ship which is disappearing around her, and after Supes catches her, he too is being sucked into the Phantom Zone. The portal is closing, and Clark & Lois are barely out of reach until the blinding light engulfs the screen. When the light subsides, we see Clark & Lois unconscious on the ground, hand in hand. After they come to and share a kiss, Clark goes off to help those around him in need, set to a slow bittersweet rendition of the new Superman theme before a fadeout.

-In the ending, after Clark enters the elevator, we see the crew watching TV, flipping though channels where we a glimpse of Supes at some sort of press conference, addressing the world, a talk show about Lexcorp and/or Waynetech increasing defence technology funding, and a live news broadcast showing how people had just been saved from a burning building by Superman. As we see Supes zoom away into the sky in the news footage, Perry interrupts the crew to introduce Clark.

-------

Anyways, despite what I would have changed, I think Man of Steel deserves praise for all it did right:

-I appreciated seeing Superman in a 'real' way, as it does make it feel more epic, which, if the story and emotional tone were stronger towards the end, could have built to something truly magnificent.
-A lot of the cinematography and design choices were aewsome. I liked the sci-fi influences in Krypton and the almost Terence Malick-inspired cinematography in Smallville.

[RepHope]

Um, nothing you said was mentioned in that link. The article even says he had more scenes Snyder shot that could potentially be used in a Cyborg movie that is apparently still happening.

https://twitter.com/kylebuchanan/sta...73306373771264
You're correct it wasn't in the article itself. It's what this guy heard, so now I'm less certain. Snyder already killed off one cast member with Olsen so it wouldn't surprise me if this were to be true.

Your turn. Where's the proof that it wasn't Snyder's plan to make a 2-part JL?

[Arsenal]

Wasn't Justice League 2 always a part of Snyder's (alleged?) "5 movie Superman arc"

[Last Son of Krypton]

JL 2 wasn't cancelled, it was still in the cards when Snyder filmed JL. Snyder's version of JL contained at least 3 "teases" of the Knightmare future and Darkseid that I'm aware of that were meant to set the sequel(s). But they ended up being scrapped when WB decided to postponing Darkseid and build first the Legion of Doom as JL's big bad. The end result was a standalone movie (Whedon's) where even Steppenwolf's connection to Darkseid is removed and the tease for the sequel is relegated to a post credits scene (Lex/Deathstroke).

[Godzilla2099]

Overall, I liked Man of Steel.

By far the biggest problem I had with this movie:

Jonathan Kent/Jor El: There is no way in hell would I accept Jonathan Kent being ok with a bus full of kids drowning to protect some secret. MOS Jor El was too perfect (wouldn't surprise me if these were Crowe's Demands) Donner/Reeve's Movies on the other hand nailed both these characters. Jor El educated Clark on his heritage and the universe. Jonathan Kent gave Clark his morals "You were put here to do more than win football games" . Each father figure contributed to Superman being the man he is

As for Zod's Death, I was actually ok with this. The odds were completely against Superman, he was put in a situation where I don't think had other options, and after there was no hope for Krypton, I got the impression Zod wanted to die that way. In battle.

[Agent Z]

Overall, I liked Man of Steel.

By far the biggest problem I had with this movie:

Jonathan Kent/Jor El: There is no way in hell would I accept Jonathan Kent being ok with a bus full of kids drowning to protect some secret. MOS Jor El was too perfect (wouldn't surprise me if these were Crowe's Demands) Donner/Reeve's Movies on the other hand nailed both these characters. Jor El educated Clark on his heritage and the universe. Jonathan Kent gave Clark his morals "You were put here to do more than win football games" . Each father figure contributed to Superman being the man he is

As for Zod's Death, I was actually ok with this. The odds were completely against Superman, he was put in a situation where I don't think had other options, and after there was no hope for Krypton, I got the impression Zod wanted to die that way. In battle.

Jonathan wasn't okay with it.

[Agent Z]

Overall, I liked Man of Steel.

By far the biggest problem I had with this movie:

Jonathan Kent/Jor El: There is no way in hell would I accept Jonathan Kent being ok with a bus full of kids drowning to protect some secret. MOS Jor El was too perfect (wouldn't surprise me if these were Crowe's Demands) Donner/Reeve's Movies on the other hand nailed both these characters. Jor El educated Clark on his heritage and the universe. Jonathan Kent gave Clark his morals "You were put here to do more than win football games" . Each father figure contributed to Superman being the man he is

As for Zod's Death, I was actually ok with this. The odds were completely against Superman, he was put in a situation where I don't think had other options, and after there was no hope for Krypton, I got the impression Zod wanted to die that way. In battle.

Jonathan wasn't okay with it.