Red Hood and the Outlaws #25 Preview/Discussion

[Aioros22]

I've been in Reddit's DC Comics, like every wednesday.
We have like six or seven threads about Red Hood right now in the first two pages. Not all are for this month's issue, but they¡re about Jason or the run.

It's great. I wish it sold better, honestly. It's warming how much people are liking it.

Edited: Isn't Willis alias "Solitary"? I keep reading "Solitaire", but I think it was "Solitary"? I don't mean to sound rude, btw. Just wondering.

They`re the same thing, Solitaire is just French.

I am under the impression that Loedbell wrote Solitaire and not Solitary under his introduction issues.

[Zaresh]

It's pretty funny how you get contrary reactions from different places. Tumblr hates everything Lobdell does but Reddit loves RHATO from what I've seen? I think 4chan loves it too.

Re: Solitary. Guilty as charged. Can I tell you about all the times where I very clearly think Solitary and end up writing down Solitaire instead? It's confusing just like his head(s).

I know that feel. I really, really know it.
I keep calling the right left and the left right even if I do know which one is each one. My brother finds it especially amusing when I give directions. And I'm the one with the better sense of direction at home (I rarely get lost, even in new places), but...

[Zaresh]

They`re the same thing, Solitaire is just French.

I am under the impression that Loedbell wrote Solitaire and not Solitary under his introduction issues.

Oh, so it's the same word. I didn't know.

[Zaresh]

This is the ghost
of a double post.

[Aahz]

I liked it, but I was actually hoping that we would see everything wrapped up in this issue and a complete fresh start of the plot with the new direction.

I'm also a little disappointed by the fight between Jason and Bruce I was hoping for something more spectacular (like their first fight in UTRH).

Btw. I have seen that the Wonder Woman Arc with Artemis started today, has anybody read it and can tell if there was any reference to what happend in todays RHatO or is that story set before the current issue?

[Aahz]

Double Post, sorry.

[AJpyro]

My OUTLAW BABIES!!

[Sergard]

(Sorry, very long post incoming in 3... 2... 1...)

I LOVE the first six pages with the flashback. Seeing Jason's unconscious body underwater has some surprisingly aesthetic charm to it. Robin Jason ignoring Alfred's order reminded me of the first time he and Batman met in the Batman issue #408 and Jason saying "I'm my own man! Me, Jason Todd!" - that kid doesn't take orders from anyone, not even Alfred. Also it showed that he cared more about Bruce' life than his own. It's a shame that Bruce and Jason didn't hug afterwards (because I don't think we'll see some hugging between the two in the foreseeable future.

The later reference to Bruce saying "Jason, if you ever leave it'll be your choice not mine." was nice. Bruce dragging Jason's unconscious body by his helmet and seeing the blood trail although was the most brutal scene of the "fight" in my eyes. I don't know if the mentioned reference is meant as Bruce wanting to say that Jason "left" because of his actions or that Bruce still doesn't want to abandon him. At least it didn't look like Bruce wanted to kick Jason out of Gotham. And I still didn't get the feeling that Jason was going to be thrown into prison. Bruce saying "No more Red Hood" felt more like Bruce forcefully trying to make Jason "retire". And some part of me would have liked to see how the confrontation between Bruce and Jason would have continued.

I'm totally fine with Bruce flipping out like that. Jason isn't the only one with anger issues in this family (on the other hand - who in this family doesn't have anger issues?). Jason and Bruce had an important deal and Jason broke it. And don't forget that Bruce has been recently "betrayed" by Catwoman. Having a second family member stabbing him in the back shortly after isn't really helpful in that matter. The fight was pretty one-sided, but I already suspected that. I also suspected that Jason wouldn't tell Bruce the true reason he went after the Penguin. The story of his father is very personal and important to Jason - but Bruce would have probably only waved it off as "excuse".

I'm not a fan of the kiss. I'm not a fan of Jason/Artemis so I'm going to interpret it as platonic goodbye kiss. And Artemis stating "It was okay. For a boy." seems to underline that Artemis prefers women over men. Which is totally fine with me. Her "How much you suffered because of me." feels like she indeed did kill Willis - and she knows that she killed Jason's father. So does that mean that Solitary is something like Willis' ghost?

I don't understand why Bruce had to mention Batwoman - and why the difference is the killing live on TV. Like this is the important point. Not the killing in general. Or that Batwoman killed because she wanted to save a million of people.

Roy coming to the rescue was one of the best scenes in the issue (although I think there was a mistake in the coloring of his outfit. What a shame). That was fast.

Bizarro's comic and his movie from the last issue are a little bit confusing. In the movie he stops Jason from killing the Joker. In the comic he doesn't. On the other hand the comic is a trilogy. Maybe the movie was an adaption of the first volume and the comic shows the real end.

I don't like it that Ma Gunn is Jason's grandmother and Willis' mother. I've read her first appearance in Batman 408 and 409 recently. Her behaviour back then doesn't make sense under the assumption that she knew that Jason was her grandson (There are a lot of things that don't make sense. Why did Jason have to live on the streets when he had a grandmother in Gotham? Why did Willis never talk about her? Why didn't she read Willis' letters although they were written by her son?). "I lied to myself then. I was a different person" isn't good enough. What I really liked about the RHatO rebirth run so far was Jason accidently making friends and forming family bonds with people who are like him - outcasts who don't really have a place where they belong. Jason saved Ma Gunn and gave her a second chance - and in return she trusted him and gave his group a base/home. She and Jason resembled Alfred and Bruce a little bit. Now it makes Ma Gunn's actions more egoistic because Jason is her own flesh and blood and she wanted to keep him around. And why not telling Jason who she is - he would have been more than happy to hear that he had still family left - and it would have given him comfort after reading Willis' letters.

And the sad thing is: Ma Gunn being Jason's grandmother is basically irrelevant for her scene in the issue. She still could have recognized Solitary as Willis by his resemblance with Jason. Solitary could have stuck around with her because she is an important person in his son's life. In my eyes it even takes away some of the tragedy of her cruel fate. Instead of thinking "poor woman who tried to turn her life around" I now think "poor Jason who doesn't know about his grandmother stuck in a bottle somewhere". It takes the pity away from Ma Gunn and pushes it onto Jason.

[KC]

This issue was amazing. It was full of heart (which has become standard for this book), the characters were sympathetic (even Jason who just tried to kill someone) and the action was amazing.

The full page image of Batman kicking Jason was incredible. It looked amazing and it totally sold the fact that Batman kicked Jason really hard.

[Korath]

I liked it, but I was actually hoping that we would see everything wrapped up in this issue and a complete fresh start of the plot with the new direction.

I'm also a little disappointed by the fight between Jason and Bruce I was hoping for something more spectacular (like their first fight in UTRH).

Btw. I have seen that the Wonder Woman Arc with Artemis started today, has anybody read it and can tell if there was any reference to what happend in todays RHatO or is that story set before the current issue?

I think it happens before. It's probably around the time Bizarro was with Luthor, I guess.

[G-Potion]

The full page image of Batman kicking Jason was incredible. It looked amazing and it totally sold the fact that Batman kicked Jason really hard.

I don't know why but this cracked me up.

[Zaresh]

About the blood family stuff. It really isn't important if Ma is or isn't. Jason still chose his familly, a familly that cared for him, in the case of Biz, Art and I'mgoing to say Roy too here, even if he will probably be declared friend only. And even if he didn't knew, he chose Ma too, and I'm going to count Alfred too, as he showed up earlier in a very family-like light.

What's more: Willis and Ma can still very well betray, manipulate and abandom or hurt Jason in many ways (well more like Willis and Faye): we've seen little of them yet.

I think Ma blood relation with Jason ihas some importance not because of Willis, butbecause Faye, actually, and what she can bring to the incoming plot.

[Zaresh]

I don't know why but this cracked me up.

It cracked you, like it cracked his Hood xD

[Aahz]

The thing is that the whole additions to Jasons backstory from rebirth have imo some severe isues when it comes to the over all timeline, and Jasons classic origin.

When Willis went to prison the day after the he visited the circus (while Dicks parents were still alive) that would have happend very early in Batman career, so him having a long career as hechmen of all the different super villains (who were at this point not even all around) isn't really plausible. And that would place it imo much earlier in Jasons live than his other origins.

And in his original Origin Jason is in Ma Gunns care for just one Day, so that Willis could sent him 6 letters doesn't seem plausible (and on top of that he was allready dead at this point).


Btw. I really don't like how easy Jasons helmet brackes all the time.

[Zaresh]

The thing is that the whole additions to Jasons backstory from rebirth have imo some severe isues when it comes to the over all timeline, and Jasons classic origin.

When Willis went to prison the day after the he visited the circus (while Dicks parents were still alive) that would have happend very early in Batman career, so him having a long career as hechmen of all the different super villains (who were at this point not even all around) isn't really plausible. And that would place it imo much earlier in Jasons live than his other origins.

And in his original Origin Jason is in Ma Gunns care for just one Day, so that Willis could sent him 6 letters doesn't seem plausible (and on top of that he was allready dead at this point).


Btw. I really don't like how easy Jasons helmet brackes all the time.

I'm guessing Willis start as a henchman happened before Bruce started as Batman, but then he went working with the rogues later in his life. Except Two Faces, who could have been doing his stuff before Batman too, but then got his moniker later with Batman. In any case, I wouldn't give it too much thought; it's not mean to, not really the focus of the story itself. And I think it's more a play with the batmythos than anything else. Well, in my opinion, I mean.

The helmet breaking so often means we get to see Jason emote, and not just an angry helmet-face despite whatever emotion he feels at the moment, so... It's kind of cheap and a bit unbeliebable, but I'm not going to complaing about it \o/.