Superfoes who need a push

[RepHope]

Henshaw is actually the great technological enemy, given that he's a living computer program. He's highly intelligent, seriously nuts, and completely immortal due to forming a new bodies out of scavenged technology with Kryptonian DNA to boot. He also tends to manipulate the likes of Metallo, or even Skynet on one occasion. The upside to being a younger character is that he's been portrayed consistently when you consider Lex and Brainiac. Although I agree that after #999, I'm not sure where to go with him.

I think it’s the fact that he’s still using his “Superman” disguise and is called “Cyborg Superman” that turns me off. I’d prefer if he just went by Henshaw, and that they leaned more into his “Not-Reed Richards” status. Ultimate Richard’s was an intimidating villain under Hickman, and I could see the potential for an evil DC Reed Richards.

But again he seems redundant to me. Personal hatred of Superman? Lex Luthor. Technology manipulation? Metallo. An evil Superman powers-wise? Bizarro/Zod. Outside of Reign he simply hasn’t impressed me enough to think he works as a long term villain for Clark. Heck I like him more as a GL villain, Hal has a very good reason to hate him, and the GLs benefit from fighting an enemy that isn’t from the other Corps.

[Kuwagaton]

That reminds me of how Composite Superman as he was gets changed around because in one way or another everyone but Loeb seems to find him silly.

I think his best story after Reign was Trial of Superman. Evil Reed from Secret Wars and New Avengers was great, and I'd rather read an existing character like him than see another used to mimic them. But yeah, he might as well go to Hal if Superman trying to help him is a lost cause.

[RepHope]

That reminds me of how Composite Superman as he was gets changed around because in one way or another everyone but Loeb seems to find him silly.

I think his best story after Reign was Trial of Superman. Evil Reed from Secret Wars and New Avengers was great, and I'd rather read an existing character like him than see another used to mimic them. But yeah, he might as well go to Hal if Superman trying to help him is a lost cause.

Bizarro is kind of silly but I enjoy him because he's had some good stories in the modern era like Escape from Bizarro World and Boyzarro Redeath. Hankshaw hasn't imo, and the aspects of him you find appealing I feel are already better used with other villains. Also my main argument against is his redundancy. We have too many Evil Superman clones by my reckoning in Supes Rogues Gallery. I say give him to the GLs if Jurgens is determined to still use him.

[Kuwagaton]

Because comics are nuts, I dunno if you mean literal clones or characters who fit the term in a general way. Hank Henshaw, Eradicator, and Kon-El are literal clones and that similarity was part of the point. Kon is obviously just about the opposite from Hank, and the similarities with Eradicator play into the bond between them. Bizarro's also another literal clone... but at the time of Reign, the only Bizarro to exist died years before, and the second was still over a year away.

Villain-wise, Zod and other Kryptonian characters weren't around at the same time. The Cyborg Superman being Hank seems like it would have been a cool surprise, because it was such a random (to me) revival, but I definitely wasn't reading back then. By the time other Kryptonians came about Hank basically abandoned his costume for that rust colored armor. Metallo had just returned in his Terminator mode, where he didn't use Kryptonite. He was basically just muscle so I wouldn't have called him "technological" until the electric years when Superman also had a funky way about technology. Brainiac just lost his (funny but) tragic angle and became a super tough space alien serial villain. All that just to say that redundancy would have to consider that he was really unique before the others. I always liked this part as a point of Superman's view concerning Hank and again, I think #999 was just full circle:



And then there was Zor-el. Now that Jor-el is back it seems less crazy but Cyborg Superman Zor was pretty bad. And I say that as someone who deeply liked that Supergirl era. I still very much support Silver Banshee as her frenemy, and I think Tyco and the Worldkillers deserved better. So did that space academy. Morrison had the coolest "new" villains, but maybe more than Hank you couldn't just give his characters to others and expect it to be as good. You'd probably have some bad dentist jokes with Xa-Du at least.

[marhawkman]

I think Supes need more rogues who aren't mass-murderers or such like things. It's part of why I like Scorch and Livewire. They're no heroes, but they're not much of villains either. They're people with powers.

[RepHope]

Because comics are nuts, I dunno if you mean literal clones or characters who fit the term in a general way. Hank Henshaw, Eradicator, and Kon-El are literal clones and that similarity was part of the point. Kon is obviously just about the opposite from Hank, and the similarities with Eradicator play into the bond between them. Bizarro's also another literal clone... but at the time of Reign, the only Bizarro to exist died years before, and the second was still over a year away.

Villain-wise, Zod and other Kryptonian characters weren't around at the same time. The Cyborg Superman being Hank seems like it would have been a cool surprise, because it was such a random (to me) revival, but I definitely wasn't reading back then. By the time other Kryptonians came about Hank basically abandoned his costume for that rust colored armor. Metallo had just returned in his Terminator mode, where he didn't use Kryptonite. He was basically just muscle so I wouldn't have called him "technological" until the electric years when Superman also had a funky way about technology. Brainiac just lost his (funny but) tragic angle and became a super tough space alien serial villain. All that just to say that redundancy would have to consider that he was really unique before the others. I always liked this part as a point of Superman's view concerning Hank and again, I think #999 was just full circle:



And then there was Zor-el. Now that Jor-el is back it seems less crazy but Cyborg Superman Zor was pretty bad. And I say that as someone who deeply liked that Supergirl era. I still very much support Silver Banshee as her frenemy, and I think Tyco and the Worldkillers deserved better. So did that space academy. Morrison had the coolest "new" villains, but maybe more than Hank you couldn't just give his characters to others and expect it to be as good. You'd probably have some bad dentist jokes with Xa-Du at least.

Don’t get me wrong I get WHY Hank was like he was. When he was created Supes was the only Kryptonianas per editorial law. He let Supes fight the “evil side” of Krypton and humanity. And yep like you said Hank eventually just became “The Cyborg” for a bit and his tech manipulation was actually fairly unique for his day. But the problem is the things that made Hank special have been finished as the rules that were around during his Creation are gone. Now Kryptonians are plentiful and Zod is the one who represents the flaws of Krypton. Brainiac or Metallo have Hank’s tech manipulation ability.

But honestly it’s kind of a moot point considering Jurgens is the only one who seems to want to use him these days. I doubt Bendis is going to use Hank.

I think Supes need more rogues who aren't mass-murderers or such like things. It's part of why I like Scorch and Livewire. They're no heroes, but they're not much of villains either. They're people with powers.

Oddly enough I don’t think any of Supes Rogues have actually killed someone lately. I guess Lex over in JL? I agree that you have to be careful with the death counts, less you suffer the “Batman Effect” of making the hero look incompetent. However I think someone like Metallo needs to shake off the jobbing aura he’s acquired and actually show how dangerous he is. Killing soldiers to get to San Lane would help show how dangerous an opponent Corbin is.

[Kuwagaton]

They've flipped him around so many times. I guess I'd just disagree with Metallo being a "tech manipulator" since he's always the one who's manipulated, and Hank being like Zod because the "evil side of Krypton" is really Eradicator if one of them. As far as who Bendis uses, we at least know Zod so far but then it's doubtful he'll look like a bigger threat than Zaar in that story.

[Jim Kelly]

I don't like when Luthor and Zod are made into anti-heroes--if not heroes all together--while Mxy and Bizarro get the evll treatment. It should be flipped. Luthor and Zod are evil and I don't want to have sympathy for them. On the other hand Mxyzptlk and Bizarro should be sympathetic characters--who are trying to be heroes in their own way but they mess it up. Bizarro having the equivalent of Superman's powers would be unstoppable--but Supes has a chance if he can figure out the guy's psyche and rein him in. Mxyzptlk has so much power that no one has a chance against him--but he's not really evil, he's simply so far beyond our reality that he doesn't understand the harm he's doing, and Super has to relate to the magical imp on a level where they reach detente.

Brainiac isn't really good or evil exactly, as he's disinterested in biological lifeforms except as science experiments. His main goal is acquiring information and he doesn't care about the niceties. Although, I suppose, he might stop short of killing a thing if it was going to contaminate the sample and make it useless for further study.

[Johnny Thunders!]

I definitely see Luthor, Zod, Mxyxptlk, and Bizarro that way. I do enjoy when Bizarro shows up evil every now and again but the bumbling atom bomb is a a lot of fun. Kids like Mxy and Bizarro! I always push Terra Man! He's not just some Smokey and the Bandit 70's masculine cowboy cliche, I mean not all the way. In my eyes, he's raised by his pa' to be a criminal, born and bred. He robs stage wagons as akid back in the 1800's (cowboy Damian Wayne). One day, aliens show up, murder his father, and being criminals respecting criminality, they adopt the bad seed and raise him as there own little demon. They operate on him to make him tough enough to survive space's emptiness (his lungs, his skin, his muscles, all his organs) and they upgrade his mind so he can make weapons that give him a fighting chance against a Thangarian, a Lantern, or stray Daxamite. His weapons look like Western stuff because that's what he knows. Visually I see him as a round Emiliano Zapata type or Clint Eastwood/Jonah Hex archetype. In my head canon, his low down family had problems with the Kents way back before Smallville was burnt down.

[RepHope]

I don't like when Luthor and Zod are made into anti-heroes--if not heroes all together--while Mxy and Bizarro get the evll treatment. It should be flipped. Luthor and Zod are evil and I don't want to have sympathy for them. On the other hand Mxyzptlk and Bizarro should be sympathetic characters--who are trying to be heroes in their own way but they mess it up. Bizarro having the equivalent of Superman's powers would be unstoppable--but Supes has a chance if he can figure out the guy's psyche and rein him in. Mxyzptlk has so much power that no one has a chance against him--but he's not really evil, he's simply so far beyond our reality that he doesn't understand the harm he's doing, and Super has to relate to the magical imp on a level where they reach detente.

Brainiac isn't really good or evil exactly, as he's disinterested in biological lifeforms except as science experiments. His main goal is acquiring information and he doesn't care about the niceties. Although, I suppose, he might stop short of killing a thing if it was going to contaminate the sample and make it useless for further study.

I see Mxy as someone who can be both a playful nuisance or a serious threat, it all depends on how he’s feeling that day. I’m not really sure I’d classify him as a wannabe hero though. He’s not empathetic enough for that, he sees humans as toys for his amusement.

I definitely see Luthor, Zod, Mxyxptlk, and Bizarro that way. I do enjoy when Bizarro shows up evil every now and again but the bumbling atom bomb is a a lot of fun. Kids like Mxy and Bizarro! I always push Terra Man! He's not just some Smokey and the Bandit 70's masculine cowboy cliche, I mean not all the way. In my eyes, he's raised by his pa' to be a criminal, born and bred. He robs stage wagons as akid back in the 1800's (cowboy Damian Wayne). One day, aliens show up, murder his father, and being criminals respecting criminality, they adopt the bad seed and raise him as there own little demon. They operate on him to make him tough enough to survive space's emptiness (his lungs, his skin, his muscles, all his organs) and they upgrade his mind so he can make weapons that give him a fighting chance against a Thangarian, a Lantern, or stray Daxamite. His weapons look like Western stuff because that's what he knows. Visually I see him as a round Emiliano Zapata type or Clint Eastwood/Jonah Hex archetype. In my head canon, his low down family had problems with the Kents way back before Smallville was burnt down.

I loved Nimrod who was kind of an updated Terra-Man. For years I thought Terra-Man was an earthbender because of his name. I thought his name was stupid when I found out that wasn’t true. I like Nimrod better as a name, too bad like everything else Morrison did he never got used again. Since Tomasi loves using Morrison’s toys I was hoping he’d bring Nimrod back, alas it was not to be.

[RepHope]

While we’re on the subject of Morrison’s additions, what did you guys think of Vyn, Morrison’s “Devil”? I thought he was a much better demonic villain than Blaze and Satanus. Maybe it’s the fact that I’m reading Vertigo’s Constantine series which makes those two look like schoolground bullies, but Blaze and Satanus never seemed like good villains. Very lame imo. Vyn on the other hand manages to be both a credible threat via his murder of the Mars colonists, and an eerie figure always in the background at the start of Morrison’s run.

[Kuwagaton]

Which stories gave you those impressions of Blaze and Satanus?

I don't like when Luthor and Zod are made into anti-heroes--if not heroes all together--while Mxy and Bizarro get the evll treatment. It should be flipped. Luthor and Zod are evil and I don't want to have sympathy for them. On the other hand Mxyzptlk and Bizarro should be sympathetic characters--who are trying to be heroes in their own way but they mess it up. Bizarro having the equivalent of Superman's powers would be unstoppable--but Supes has a chance if he can figure out the guy's psyche and rein him in. Mxyzptlk has so much power that no one has a chance against him--but he's not really evil, he's simply so far beyond our reality that he doesn't understand the harm he's doing, and Super has to relate to the magical imp on a level where they reach detente.

Brainiac isn't really good or evil exactly, as he's disinterested in biological lifeforms except as science experiments. His main goal is acquiring information and he doesn't care about the niceties. Although, I suppose, he might stop short of killing a thing if it was going to contaminate the sample and make it useless for further study.

I do like the fan suggestion of having two different Luthors, except I don't think they can really rival Superman if they can't even get clear of each other.

With Brainiac, I guess the most popular versions are from the 80s revamp and the following TAS version, but I always liked "alive" over "sentient."Like an actual Coluan instead of a computer, with a real son in Vril Dox II instead of a clone even. Not emotional at all but not stiff. And although I say not emotional, I think he should like Koko a lot even if he doesn't admit it.

[Cmbmool]

I second on Terra Man as he needs something to connect to the modern day world.

I would like to see them try to revive the Prankster...I mean between how menacing the Toyman is... The Prankster could use an update or two for the modern times, right ?

[Jim Kelly]

I think you could make a DC/Superman equivalent of Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy (movie version) but as space villains instead of heroes, using Terra-Man as the Star-Lord of the team (so long as he has his original origin story). Throw in Maxima for Gamora, Solomon Grundy for Groot, Grax for Drax--but I'm stuck on an equivalent for Rocket Racoon--Koko the Space Monkey?

[Denirac]

Nuclear Man. He really needs the Push