All-purpose news and politics thread: Two Steps Beyond!(Part II)

[aja_christopher]

Whatever happens should be done quickly, barring new revelations (ie- new accusers, the other two people at the party coming forward.)

Bet you didn't make that argument when Obama nominated Garland for the position.

Though I tend to forget that sexual assault doesn't seem to be an issue with many Republican voters.

Black ("Kenyan-Muslim") presidents on the other hand are a different matter entirely.

A few years ago Republicans wanted to "wait and let the people vote" on a Supreme Court nominee -- meanwhile their nominee (Trump and his crew) secretly worked with the Russians to illegally influence and steal the election while McConnell and the rest of the Republicans did everything in their power to cover for these traitors.

Now that said Russian and Republican corruption has been exposed and the FBI is handing out indictments and prison sentences to both, suddenly waiting and letting the people vote seems to be their worst nightmare.

Because they -- and you -- know Kavanaugh's vote is essential to getting away with their criminality.

[aja_christopher]

"US Border Patrol agent arrested in 4 deaths described as serial killer"

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/15/us/us...ngs/index.html

"Handcuffs, assaults, and drugs called 'vitamins': Children allege grave abuse at migrant detention facilities"

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/21/us/un...nvs/index.html

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Bet you didn't make that argument when Obama nominated Garland for the position.

Though I tend to forget that sexual assault doesn't seem to be an issue with many Republican voters.

Black ("Kenyan-Muslim") presidents on the other hand are a different matter entirely.

A few years ago Republicans wanted to "wait and let the people vote" on a Supreme Court nominee -- meanwhile their nominee (Trump and his crew) secretly worked with the Russians to illegally influence and steal the election while McConnell and the rest of the Republicans did everything in their power to cover for these traitors.

Now that said Russian and Republican corruption has been exposed and the FBI is handing out indictments and prison sentences to both, suddenly waiting and letting the people vote seems to be their worst nightmare.

Because they -- and you -- know Kavanaugh's vote is essential to getting away with their criminality.

Not to mention keeping articles of impeachment from being brought up on Trump.

[aja_christopher]

Not to mention keeping articles of impeachment from being brought up on Trump.

He's one of the "Republicans" I was talking about -- as much as Mets likes to try to pretend otherwise.

In their eyes, his only crime seems to be that he got caught.

[Mister Mets]

Bet you didn't make that argument when Obama nominated Garland for the position.

Though I tend to forget that sexual assault doesn't seem to be an issue with many Republican voters.

Black ("Kenyan-Muslim") presidents on the other hand are a different matter entirely.

A few years ago Republicans wanted to "wait and let the people vote" on a Supreme Court nominee -- meanwhile their nominee (Trump and his crew) secretly worked with the Russians to illegally influence and steal the election while McConnell and the rest of the Republicans did everything in their power to cover for these traitors.

Now that said Russian and Republican corruption has been exposed and the FBI is handing out indictments and prison sentences to both, suddenly waiting and letting the people vote seems to be their worst nightmare.

Because they -- and you -- know Kavanaugh's vote is essential to getting away with their criminality.

Your impression of my motives seems to be based on the idea that I take for granted conclusions that are currently considered fringe- not stated outright by mainstream left-leaning news outlets like NPR or the New York Times, or mainstream Democratic politicians like Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi. It's not reasonable to expect me to be more to the left-wing fringe than they are. This assumes we define stolen elections the same way (IE- ballot stuffing, hacking of voting machines, intentional efforts to disqualify lawful voters ; all in a manner that changes the outcome of the election.)

I don't like Pence all that much (too much of a holy-roller, seems like an intellectual lightweight) but I'd much rather have him as President than Trump. However, the process by which Trump would be removed has to be done right. Meuller's got his investigation, so we should wait for the results of that, or for Trump to go too far and try to remove him.

Some on the left seem to be under the impression that the nomination of Kavanaugh is unusual, and something only Trump would do. Kavanaugh had been one of the people Romney was speculated to consider back during the 2012 election.

https://www.cnn.com/2012/09/30/polit...ist/index.html

If you want to know my views on Garland, you can use the search function on the old thread. I'll gladly address any question you might have on points I made. McConnell was clear that he would not allow Obama to flip the Supreme Court with less than an year to go before the presidential election, during a time when the Republicans had a majority in the Senate. It was a consequence of the escalation of Supreme Court politics, where Democrats were more vicious than Republicans (Democrats voted overwhelmingly against Bork and Clarence Thomas; Bill Clinton's nominees got overwhelming Republican support; Half the Democrats voted against Roberts; four Democrats voted for Alito) which set the precedent that traditional measures of Supreme Court justices (character, qualifications) weren't as relevant as whether a Senator agreed with his/ her political philosophy. I don't know how we deescalate from here, but it's not going to happen by blaming Republicans for everything and insisting they be there only ones to give up something.

[aja_christopher]

If you want to know my views

At this point, I really don't -- I know what your party has done to our country and that's all I need to know.

My posts to you aren't to "debate" your views -- just to point out the obvious hypocrisy of the party that you support for all to see.

You can "not like" Republican racism, corruption and treason all day, Mets, but in the end talk is cheap and it's still your party that is responsible for this mess.

Again.

Edit: I noticed that you focused on the fact that I said Trump and his team worked with the Russians to steal the election -- whether you feel that said efforts were "effective" or not, that statement is correct: he did work with them -- to steal the election through illegal means.

And you're likewise right in that we should see what Mueller has to say about it, assuming your chosen party doesn't stifle said investigation, as many of it's members (such as Ryan and McConnell) seem to want to protect Trump while others (such as Nunes and DeSantis) are doing their best to end or to block it.

Conversely, others (such as Cohen and Manafort) are already not only listening to what Mueller has to say but also offering their own personal insights into the corruption of said party... so that they can avoid spending the rest of their lives in prison.

So yeah, let's see what Mueller has to report -- assuming the Republicans don't successfully block it -- and let's also see what Kavanaugh's accuser has to say before we make any judgments. With that in mind, there's no need to do this "quickly" as you argued in your initial post, but there is every need to take enough time to do it right, so that we have all of the relevant facts before making a final well-reasoned decision.

[Tendrin]

I'm having a good laugh at Democrats being 'more vicious' for voting against a guy involved in the Saturday Night Massacre and a guy credibly accused of sexual harassment. Bork should never have been nominated and Thomas should never have been seated.

[Gray Lensman]

At this point, I really don't -- I know what your party has done to our country and that's all I need to know.

My posts to you aren't to "debate" your views -- just to point out the obvious hypocrisy of the party that you support for all to see.

You can "not like" Republican corruption and treason all day, Mets, but in the end talk is cheap and it's still your party that is responsible for this mess.

Again.

You might also want to keep in mind how corrupt Democratic politics are in New York. It's the state where the term 'political machine' was coined and I often think that little has changed since then. Andrew Cuomo and his shenanigans with the so called Independent Democratic Caucus can be exhibit A.

It's easier to stay on the right when the left is so bad, although I think those problems have more to do with New York than being right or left.

[aja_christopher]

You might also want to keep in mind how corrupt Democratic politics are in New York. It's the state where the term 'political machine' was coined and I often think that little has changed since then. Andrew Cuomo and his shenanigans with the so called Independent Democratic Caucus can be exhibit A.

It's easier to stay on the right when the left is so bad, although I think those problems have more to do with New York than being right or left.

You'll never once hear me defending Democratic corruption nor claiming that said party doesn't have it's own issues to resolve (as again -- I'm not a Democrat) but only a blind man or a fool would sit here and try to make the argument that "both sides" are equally problematic to our nation -- the very fabric of our democracy -- at this point in history.

War, racism, homophobia, sexism, political corruption, climate change, trade wars, Russian interference, escalating debt -- I know what side of the equation I'm on with regards to said issues and I likewise know what side the Republicans are on based on their legislation, representatives and current and past presidents.

That's reality -- everything else here is rhetoric.

[Gray Lensman]

You'll never once hear me defending Democratic corruption nor claiming that said party doesn't have it's own issues to resolve (as again -- I'm not a Democrat) but only a blind man or a fool would sit here and try to make the argument that "both sides" are equally problematic to our nation -- the very fabric of our democracy -- at this point in history.

War, racism, homophobia, sexism, political corruption, climate change, trade wars, Russian interference, escalating debt (etc) -- I know what side of the equation I'm on with regards to said issues and I likewise know what side the Republicans are on based on their legislation, representatives and current (and past) presidents.

That's reality -- everything else here is rhetoric.

It's easier to think 'both sides are bad' when you live in the worst that the 'better' side has to offer. It took me leaving the state and dealing with worse Republicans and Democrats who weren't trying to figure out how to vacuum up the contents of my bank account to switch parties - and the election of Trump as well. It's easy to overlook what's happening several states over when your own is so bad.

Cuomo switches between claiming he is all-powerful and he has no power at all depending on whether or not taking credit would look good or bad - Very Trumpian.

New York changed voting rules at the last minute this year to blunt progressive activists - very North Carolina of them.

The Democrats in the state senate formed a sub-caucus to work against stuff the governor pushed (weakly), except that right before the primary the governor himself disbanded the group which was supposed to be his political opponents.

I'm not saying that what we have for current Republicans are good (they aren't), but in New York the Democrats (at least on the state level) are pretty bad too, and they are the ones in power, so it affects people who live there more. And they have been bad for quite a long while.

[aja_christopher]

I'm not saying that what we have for current Republicans are good (they aren't), but in New York the Democrats (at least on the state level) are pretty bad too, and they are the ones in power, so it affects people who live there more. And they have been bad for quite a long while.

So vote them out -- or do whatever you think needs to be done to address the problem.

I'm not here to argue relative morality -- you focus on what you think is most important, and I'll do the same.

[Dalak]

Well to demonstrate how bad the R's are in my state, Ted Cruz is sending out illegal mailers desperate to fundraise.



And it's something he's been doing before, though this story mistakenly says it's Legal. Maybe it's because they missed some Texas State Law shown in the tweet.

[Gray Lensman]

So vote them out -- or do whatever you think needs to be done to address the problem.

I'm not here to argue relative morality -- you focus on what you think is most important, and I'll do the same.

I moved to a saner state a few years ago. On one income I am better off than I was under two incomes in New York. I still have friends and my wife's family there, though. So I still keep up somewhat on the happenings over there. Sadly, voting them out wasn't a real possibility where I lived. The Assembly majority leader (who wasn't from my district) had the power to single handedly kill any legislation he didn't like, and had enough power over who got what that the rest of the chamber was truly afraid of the man. And it's a power he used to hold up disaster aid 10 years back to score political points. May his time in jail be as miserable as possible. It's a new guy now, but the system which made him possible remains.

[Malvolio]

I was a Democrat when I lived in Brooklyn because the Republicans have almost zero power in Brooklyn and most local elections in Brooklyn are between a liberal Democrat and a conservative Democrat. However, when I moved to upstate NY in 2006, I found out about the so-called Independent Democratic Caucus, which allowed the Republicans maintain control of the State Senate. So I registered as an independent. But in 2008, I wanted to vote in the Democratic Presidential Primary, but could not because I switched back to the Democratic Party too late to qualify.

All that said, I am certainly glad that most of the IDC members up for re-election lost in their respective primaries. Maybe we'll see less of their type of shenanigans in the years to come.

[aja_christopher]

I moved to a saner state a few years ago. On one income I am better off than I was under two incomes in New York. I still have friends and my wife's family there, though. So I still keep up somewhat on the happenings over there.

Personally I'm more concerned with being shot by dishonest and/or racist cops with an itchy trigger finger or watching from the sidelines as the Republicans systematically disenfranchise anyone (especially "minorities") who might vote against them, while the current Republican President supports white supremacists from his podium, separates immigrant children from their families, and actually encourages foreign powers to interfere in our elections so that the next unlawfully elected Republican administration -- along with a complicit Supreme Court -- can continue the process unhindered.

And that's without even getting into climate change, the devastating effects of which we can already see in many cities around the world.

Again -- you focus on what's important to you, and I'll do the same.