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  1. #9781
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by worstblogever View Post
    I remember in '08 there were people who dragged Obama for not being friendly enough to the LGBTQ community.

    Then, five years later, he's jogging laps around a rainbow-colored White House with Biden to celebrate Obergefell vs. Hodges.

    How much "enough" is "enough" for Democrats to fall in love with a candidate, you know?
    Obama's 'evolution' on gay rights is a primary example that a president doesn't have to be perfect on an issue you care deeply about to deliver progress on it. Criticizing from the left is good but one must keep their eye on the ball.

  2. #9782
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    Obama's 'evolution' on gay rights is a primary example that a president doesn't have to be perfect on an issue you care deeply about to deliver progress on it. Criticizing from the left is good but one must keep their eye on the ball.
    Namely, not supporting someone with obvious issues when you could nominate someone without those issues.

  3. #9783
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    Obama's 'evolution' on gay rights is a primary example that a president doesn't have to be perfect on an issue you care deeply about to deliver progress on it. Criticizing from the left is good but one must keep their eye on the ball.
    Obama strikes me as a guy who kept his real feelings quiet, or downplayed them, because he thought the country wasn't as accepting of it as they might really have been.

  4. #9784
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    Obama strikes me as a guy who kept his real feelings quiet, or downplayed them, because he thought the country wasn't as accepting of it as they might really have been.
    No one running for President in the 2008 field was openly in favor of gay marriage. It's telling that the second-tier candidates didn't try to use that as a way to stand out from Obama, Hillary and Edwards (and that Edwards didn't use it as a way to distinguish himself from the top two.)

    The 2020 race is a bit different in that there will always be candidates willing to address most controversial issues.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  5. #9785
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lammasu View Post
    Why exactly did people vote for Brexit to begin with? Were people that upset about immigration that they chose a path with big potential for disaster.
    Xenophobia played a role, but by far the greatest impulse behind the Brexit vote was just the desire to Make Britain Great Again, with the continued reliance on the EU being the most potent symbol of the country's diminished power and prestige on the world stage. Of course, nothing that anyone can do at this point will be able to resurrect the British Empire and we should all be thankful for that, and so until the British are able to come to terms with that we can enjoy watching them flail about impotently, demanding to be taken seriously.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    Obama strikes me as a guy who kept his real feelings quiet, or downplayed them, because he thought the country wasn't as accepting of it as they might really have been.
    Meh, I seriously doubt that there's some kind of radical lurking beneath the surface there. Obama's views on gay marriage largely lined up with those of the country as a whole, in 2008 it was still one of those issues that most people knew would probably win out one day, but were anxious about openly supporting because gays are icky and what not. I don't think it was a coincidence that he happened to evolve on the issue just as public opinion started to turn dramatically in its favor.
    Last edited by PwrdOn; 01-15-2019 at 08:21 PM.

  6. #9786
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Namely, not supporting someone with obvious issues when you could nominate someone without those issues.
    Everyone has obvious issues. Get over them. Yes, even Warren.

  7. #9787
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    Everyone has obvious issues. Get over them. Yes, even Warren.
    Please throw out a couple of Warren's issues that are even remotely in the same league as Harris'.

    It's not like we are talking about a couple of lousy votes or a stumble of some kind.

    It's also not like Harris has been in any hurry to right/seriously address them.

  8. #9788
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Democrats are getting more aggressive on expanding healthcare, which I am totally in favor of.

    They also need to get incredibly aggressive on climate change. And UBI. And other important issues.

  9. #9789
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    Democrats are getting more aggressive on expanding healthcare, which I am totally in favor of.

    They also need to get incredibly aggressive on climate change. And UBI. And other important issues.
    While this is pretty much just Illinois, the current Governor ran on letting folks buy into public insurance at cost.

    It's one of the big reasons that I voted for him.

  10. #9790
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Please throw out a couple of Warren's issues that are even remotely in the same league as Harris'.

    It's not like we are talking about a couple of lousy votes or a stumble of some kind.

    It's also not like Harris has been in any hurry to right/seriously address them.

    I assure you, given that the campaign is just getting underway, we'll be hearing more about all those things, just like we'll hear talks about Warren's handling of the native american issue and medical device loopholes she inserted into bills.


    In the meantime, I'm not ruling anyone out or pretending that any of them are free from baggage. Harris stands a good shot at winning the nomination as it sits, certainly better than Gabbard and with a more natural constituency than Gillibrand. Castro is gonna be the O'malley of this thing, I think. I already outlined why I'm not supporting Harris outright, soooo...

  11. #9791
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    I'm not ready to throw my support behind any candidate beyond NOT GABBARD.

  12. #9792
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    I'm not ready to throw my support behind any candidate beyond NOT GABBARD.
    Yeah, pretty much where I'm at. They all have work to do. Gabbard is the only one I'm truly not open to.

  13. #9793
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    I assure you, given that the campaign is just getting underway, we'll be hearing more about all those things, just like we'll hear talks about Warren's handling of the native american issue and medical device loopholes she inserted into bills.


    In the meantime, I'm not ruling anyone out or pretending that any of them are free from baggage. Harris stands a good shot at winning the nomination as it sits, certainly better than Gabbard and with a more natural constituency than Gillibrand. Castro is gonna be the O'malley of this thing, I think. I already outlined why I'm not supporting Harris outright, soooo...
    Look, I sure hope it doesn't come down to Garbbard or Bloomberg(assuming he attempts a run). I don't want to even think about a situation where I have to try to justify a vote for one of those two.

    That said, it shouldn't be "We'll Be Hearing About..." when it comes to those kinds of issues. You need to be trying to deal with them before they wind up dealing with you.

  14. #9794
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Look, I sure hope it doesn't come down to Garbbard or Bloomberg(assuming he attempts a run). I don't want to even think about a situation where I have to try to justify a vote for one of those two.

    That said, it shouldn't be "We'll Be Hearing About..." when it comes to those kinds of issues. You need to be trying to deal with them before they wind up dealing with you.


    It's January 2019, 30.

  15. #9795
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Hahaha.

    The supine Repiblican lead senate will do no such thing.

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