All-purpose news and politics thread: Two Steps Beyond!(Part II)

[jetengine]

It's time to stop feeling "sorry" for these politicians and also to start placing the blame exactly where it belongs -- on the voting public.

Granted -- both the Americans and the English have been victims of a long campaign of misinformation (via Russia and largely directed by Putin) and xenophobia (via homegrown politicians and political representatives) but at the end of the day, it's the people (i.e. the voters) who are responsible for things like Brexit and Trump rising to prominence in our respective countries.

I understand what you're saying in that, despite her cool demeanor May is just as human as anyone else, but it's also important to remember that most of this is happening because we are letting it happen by not being more active in our political process.

Not saying we should be tearing and burning things down like the French, but we certainly can become more informed -- and do our best to keep others informed -- and vote accordingly, because information warfare is not going away anytime soon, especially in the age of the internet.

I'd personally say 50/50. Yes the public are stupid and uninformed but who feeds them the lies and chooses the worst options ? The politicians.

May (much like Cameron) gambled tremendously in her own leadership vote and had to bribe Irish Fundamentalists to keep her in power, said Fundies realised rapidly they were the king makers and also all their lunatic ideas had to be appeased or else.

[ZombieHavoc]

Easily rectified...

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/08/k...torney-general

I subscribe to Jacobin but I love Kamala Harris. They're just gonna have to deal with it.

[aja_christopher]

I'd personally say 50/50. Yes the public are stupid and uninformed but who feeds them the lies and chooses the worst options ? The politicians.

Which is why I say it's up to us as individuals to counter their lies and xenophobia directly -- I know for a fact that many of us have relatives, neighbors, friends (etc) out there who parrot these racist, homophobic, Islamophobic, anti-immigrant (etc) sentiments and prior to this wake-up call maybe we could look the other way and accept it as business as usual, but this is a different era and if the forces of bigotry and prejudice are organizing and assuming power over our populace, then it's up to those of us who are informed to counteract their efforts to drag us back into the past rather than lead us towards the future.

Those politicians are only there because enough people vote for them to keep them in place -- in America we recently countered the lies of the Republican party with thorough analysis of their corrupt and hypocritical behavior and as a result had a historical midterm election turnout. Millions of people got motivated and active -- they made calls, knocked on doors, marched, protested, and actively spoke truth to power, but most importantly they voted in record numbers and took steps to turn things around in our nation, at least for the time being, though hopefully for the long-term.

Many Republican politicians lied and misled voters throughout the campaign, but we learned from the mistakes of the past and responded accordingly.

Granted, it's an ongoing struggle to enlighten people about things like climate change, sexism, racial bias (etc) I don't see where we have any other options given what we've seen of the alternative -- especially given the fact that with regards to issues like climate change, it may already be too late.

[Tami]

I subscribe to Jacobin but I love Kamala Harris. They're just gonna have to deal with it.

I would actually be interested in a Harris/Booker team-up. I don't see Booker as Presidential material, but I do see him as a potential VP. Harris, I think she can possibly appeal to a wide range of voters.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

I would actually be interested in a Harris/Booker team-up. I don't see Booker as Presidential material, but I do see him as a potential VP. Harris, I think she can possibly appeal to a wide range of voters.

Any ticket with Booker completely loses the Sanders/Progressive crowd. They areblovif with him. He has no chance. Harris isn’t going to fare much better with them, but at least their isn’t the bad blood

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Here’s the issue with May. She has been give a directive that she has to serve the UK a steaming pile of **** for dinner called Brexit. UKIP promised alchemy that could turn the **** into gold and it’s former leaders will crucify anything less. So May has the unfortunate job of trying to cook the ****, add spice and seasoning to the ****, maybe throw some ketchup on it, and wrap it in bread. Her hope is that she can make enough bargains and lower the portion size of the ****. But at the end of the day she is going to be there when every citizen of Britain is forced to eat ****. And she knows it. And since nobody wants to eat ****, they are voting down all her plans to minimize it because it’s never going to be enough.

[Tendrin]

Any ticket with Booker completely loses the Sanders/Progressive crowd. They areblovif with him. He has no chance. Harris isn’t going to fare much better with them, but at least their isn’t the bad blood

A lot of the hate directed at Booker is pretty bizarre.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

A lot of the hate directed at Booker is pretty bizarre.

It doesn’t surprise me. He often was lumped in with Gillibrand as a watered down centrist establishment type who doesnt have the charisma or teeth of a more skilled politician. Then he was instrumental in one of Sanders drug price bills failing and had a very shitty excuse. That plus he has so much corporate money tied to him (and some of can explain why he voted how he did).

So he’s kinda dead in the water with that crowd. Gillibrand made a huge effort to ingratiate herself to them and she is still struggling.

The party needs someone that both sides will be comfortable with. Sanders has the same problem as Booker. One side holds a massive grudge against him.

[Tendrin]

It doesn’t surprise me. He often was lumped in with Gillibrand as a watered down centrist establishment type who doesnt have the charisma or teeth of a more skilled politician. Then he was instrumental in one of Sanders drug price bills failing and had a very shitty excuse. That plus he has so much corporate money tied to him (and some of can explain why he voted how he did).

So he’s kinda dead in the water with that crowd. Gillibrand made a huge effort to ingratiate herself to them and she is still struggling.

The party needs someone that both sides will be comfortable with. Sanders has the same problem as Booker. One side holds a massive grudge against him.

Booker not having charisma makes me laugh.

He does seem to've had some 'Elizabeth Warren Drinks a Beer' cringe moments himself, though.

[ZombieHavoc]

I do want a candidate that pleases the Bernie side, though, because they are the ones that are gonna hold their vote hostage.

I'm pretty confident that the side that is pushing for Harris or Booker or anyone like that will still vote for a Bernie-like candidate, because they seem to understand more the importance of Trump not winning.

The Bernie side doesn't really seem to care about that if their person is not who makes it through primaries, and I'm okay with catering to that side if it means getting a dem elected in 2020.

It helps that I am left wing AF...but I'll still be voting for whoever the hell wins the primaries, which is really how it should be. Not pack up your **** and go home because your candidate didn't win the votes, but whatever. No changing that ****, especially in 2019 when everyone is childish as hell.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Booker not having charisma makes me laugh.

He does seem to've had some 'Elizabeth Warren Drinks a Beer' cringe moments himself, though.

He really doesn’t. Bill Clinton and Barrack Obama had charisma in the sense that you felt that they really emphasized with their constituents. **** Bill Clinton could make you feel like his heart was breaking at every single American sob story. Booker’s pretty generic. He’s well spoken. Charismatic... nah. He sounds like most politicians

[Kevinroc]

It doesn’t surprise me. He often was lumped in with Gillibrand as a watered down centrist establishment type who doesnt have the charisma or teeth of a more skilled politician. Then he was instrumental in one of Sanders drug price bills failing and had a very shitty excuse. That plus he has so much corporate money tied to him (and some of can explain why he voted how he did).

So he’s kinda dead in the water with that crowd. Gillibrand made a huge effort to ingratiate herself to them and she is still struggling.

The party needs someone that both sides will be comfortable with. Sanders has the same problem as Booker. One side holds a massive grudge against him.

Gillibrand has the biggest Anti-Trump voting record in the Senate. 11.9%

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...-e-gillibrand/

Bernie's at 14.3%

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...rnard-sanders/

And Warren's at 13.1%.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...zabeth-warren/

(Booker's at 15.5%)

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...cory-a-booker/

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Gillibrand has the biggest Anti-Trump voting record in the Senate. 11.9%

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...-e-gillibrand/

Bernie's at 14.3%

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...rnard-sanders/

And Warren's at 13.1%.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...zabeth-warren/

(Booker's at 15.5%)

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...cory-a-booker/

You do realize being anti Trump isn’t the primary driver of progressives and Bernie voters? They have bigger issues with corporate interests and big banks. Problems Gillibrand and Booker have.

The Democrats could offer up 90% of the party and get a strong anti Trump record. That’s not the major concern for them. I really don’t think some Democrats get that.

The strategy probably shouldn’t be “Trump’s the enemy, let’s stop him”. It already didn’t work once.

[aja_christopher]

You do realize being anti Trump isn’t the primary driver of progressives and Bernie voters? They have bigger issues with corporate interests and big banks. Problems Gillibrand and Booker have.

The Democrats could offer up 90% of the party and get a strong anti Trump record. That’s not the major concern for them. I really don’t think some Democrats get that.

The strategy probably shouldn’t be “Trump’s the enemy, let’s stop him”. It already didn’t work once.

That wasn't the strategy -- this was the strategy.

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/

Of course, if you want to go down the road of misrepresentation again -- much to the detriment of all -- you can but it would probably be best just to stop rehashing your perspective of 2016 and just focus on what's going to happen if the Democrats don't take the White House and the Senate in 2020.

The "left" has already lost a Presidency, two Supreme Court judges and numerous other federal positions as a result of these divisions -- at a certain point it makes a lot more sense to focus on stopping the bleeding than it does to repeatedly pick new fights and reopen old wounds.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

That wasn't the strategy -- this was the strategy.

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/

Of course, if you want to go down the road of misrepresentation again -- much to the detriment of all -- you can but it would probably be best just to stop rehashing your perspective of 2016 and just focus on what's going to happen if the Democrats don't take the White House and the Senate in 2020.

That wasn’t her strategy. That was just bullet points on her website. When she went on campaign it was all about Trump. What did she bring up in all her debates? What were her national ads about? Sorry that’s just misleading and not accurate to what she presented to the voting public.

Why don’t you just make a decision and stop trying to have your cake and eat it too? Either say that you really like jumping into all these rehashes about 2016 (because quite frankly one minor point in my post made you go off on a tangent about it) or stop complaining about it.

Sorry for most progressives economic policies and taking corporate interests out of politics is more important than an anybody but Trump mantra.