All-purpose news and politics thread: Two Steps Beyond!(Part II)

[numberthirty]

We are not going to have a revolution, but I think trying to move the needle is a good thing, rather than just accepting things because ''that's the way its always been''. If people are willing to question things like militarism, the current health care system, mass incarceration, and other such things, then maybe people will want to change these things.

If people just accepted the status quo in the past, we wouldn't have social progress like the end of Jim Crow and marriage equality. I think this stuff is worth fighting for personally and think these changes would be good for society, but I think there does need to be some changes to the system.

The question that you have to ask yourself is a simple one.

How long will it take to actually see any sort of real change if you just throw the lever for "Status Quo" Democrats every single time?

Once you've seriously considered that...

- How long do you honestly believe it will take them to seriously address United States immigration policy?
- How long do you honestly believe it will take them to seriously address if the wage an Amazon employee makes is enough to afford basics?

Does anyone actually believe that "Status Quo" Democrats will actually get serious about addressing those things in an even remotely timely fashion if they believe they have support whether they do or not?

[TheDarman]

The question that you have to ask yourself is a simple one.

How long will it take to actually see any sort of real change if you just throw the lever for "Status Quo" Democrats every single time?

Once you've seriously considered that...

- How long do you honestly believe it will take them to seriously address United States immigration policy?
- How long do you honestly believe it will take them to seriously address if the wage an Amazon employee makes is enough to afford basics?

Does anyone actually believe that "Status Quo" Democrats will actually get serious about addressing those things in an even remotely timely fashion if they believe they have support whether they do or not?

I actually believe they won’t set these objectives back to a point where the status quo eventually becomes the new goal. Imagine how quickly the ACA almost died last year. That’s what happens when one side has purity tests...and the other doesn’t. People argued that Trump didn’t share Conservative priorities but they got judges, tax cuts, and almost repealed the ACA. Hard to argue that the guy hasn’t upheld his end of the bargain. That’s what happens when politicians understand who they owe their victories too. It usn’t A case of not voting for them, it’s a case of not being silent after you do.

[Tami]

Martha McSally conceded the race.

There's gonna be a Senator Kyrsten Sinema from Arizona.

Trump and other Repiublicans wanted her to fight it, claim voter fraud. McSally refused. Though, it is possible that she may be eyeing the other Senate Seat.

The Tale of Two Arizona Senate Seats - Aug. 29, 2018

Arizona Republicans selected second-term Rep. Martha McSally on Tuesday as their nominee for the open U.S. Senate seat being vacated by Jeff Flake.

The passing of John McCain leaves the state's other U.S. Senate seat suddenly open as well, creating an unprecedented circumstance and a weighty decision for the Grand Canyon State's GOP governor, who also faces voters in a volatile midterm year.

It means in the span of the next several months, Arizona will usher in two freshman senators – a scenario that hasn't occurred since the state was admitted to the union in 1912.

One will be its first female – either McSally or Democrat Kyrsten Sinema, a third-term congresswoman who also clinched her party's nomination on Tuesday night – elected by voters in November in what's expected to be one of the most competitive contests on the map. (The most recent pair of polls have shown Sinema with a 4 point lead.)

The other will be appointed by Gov. Doug Ducey in the coming weeks.

Ducey's decision, which won't come until after McCain's burial and the Labor Day holiday, could potentially impact the battleground Senate race as well as his own re-election. But only if it proves hapless or controversial.

Could both McSally and Sinema end up as Arizona's senators?

After John McCain's passing in August, the responsibility fell to Arizona Republican Gov. Doug Ducey to appoint an interim replacement for the beloved senator in Washington. Ducey made a safe choice in former Arizona Sen. Jon Kyl, who retired from office in 2013. Kyl, however, only committed to serve in the role until early January, after which Ducey will once again have to choose a replacement until Arizonans make their choice to fill the seat in a 2020 special election.

So who are the potential candidates? There was speculation over the summer that Ducey might appoint his own chief of staff to the role or even Cindy McCain -- the Arizona senator's widow. But should Sinema eek out a win after ballot counting is completed, McSally will be out of a job, having vacated her seat in Congress to campaign.

If Ducey decides to appoint McSally, that could leave both candidates serving in the Senate until at least 2020. After that, the Republican appointee will have to decide whether or not to run in the special election.

[Emperor-of-Dragons]

. That’s what happens when politicians understand who they owe their victories too. It usn’t A case of not voting for them, it’s a case of not being silent after you do.

I totally agree, however I'm reminded of all the people who tried to hold Obama's feet to the fire over the things he promised only for other portions of the base to tell people to be quiet.

[Kevinroc]

Trump and other Repiublicans wanted her to fight it, claim voter fraud. McSally refused. Though, it is possible that she may be eyeing the other Senate Seat.

The Tale of Two Arizona Senate Seats - Aug. 29, 2018



Could both McSally and Sinema end up as Arizona's senators?

I absolutely think McSally is going to be appointed to McCain's seat. That's a big reason why McSally hasn't given in to the conspiracy theories that Trump and others have spewed.

[Tazirai]

I forgot...there IS another path to breaking the Two Party system, but it's a lot less photogenic than pussy hats at protest marches, and is a LOT more risky than gradual change.

We, the people, could rise up in rebellion and tear the entire corrupt system down. It would cost a lot in lives, it wouldn't be a sure victory for progress and would, in fact, set progress back quite a bit in the rebuilding, and would be a world-altering event with far-reaching repurcussions no one could plan for, however it went. I know that's a lot harder to justify for some than just going to a protest march after hitting up a Starbucks, and then stopping to get a new sweater afterwards. Looking at how Antifa is talked about in supposedly progressive circles tells me that, while lots of leftist self-identifiers talk the talk, the thought of actually risking their lives - and their comfort - for the change they claim to want is too scary.

So if actual uprising and revolution are off the table for most leftists, then the only reasonable option left that I can see is the one I outline above: gradual, internal change leading to progress.

Imagine that...

People are getting sick of Gradual though, as we need change NOW!

[InformationGeek]

Ummmm... someone pointed this out to me. Fox News and WikiLeaks have gone dead silent for the past few days on Twitter. Matt Drudge deleted his entire Twitter feed. National Enquirer and Rudy Giuliani are also quiet.

I'm not a conspiracy end of guy but... ah, think something is up?

[Kirby101]

[QUOTE=InformationGeek;4018546]Ummmm... someone pointed this out to me. Fox News and WikiLeaks have gone dead silent for the past few days on Twitter. Matt Drudge deleted his entire Twitter feed. National Enquirer and Rudy Giuliani are also quiet.

I'm not a conspiracy end of guy but... ah, think something is up?[/Quote

[Tendrin]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...cid=spartanntp

President Trump has decided to remove Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen, and her departure from the administration is likely to occur in the coming weeks, if not sooner, according to five current and former White House officials.
Trump canceled a planned trip with Nielsen this week to visit U.S. troops at the border in South Texas and told aides over the weekend he wants her out as soon as possible, these officials said. The president has grumbled for months about what he views as Nielsen’s lackluster performance on immigration enforcement and is believed to be looking for a replacement who will implement his policy ideas with more alacrity.

ICE is holding a record 44,000 people in daily detention and Trump is saying that the concentration camps aren't large enough.

[Mister Mets]

A Politico/ Morning Consult poll on the 2020 Democratic presidential primary has Joe Biden in first place with 26 percent, Bernie Sanders in second place with 19 percent, and Beto O'Rourke in third place with eight percent.


No one else has more than five percent.

[zinderel]

People are getting sick of Gradual though, as we need change NOW!

I get that, I do. And if we lived in a world where 'I want it now!' was how things worked, that'd be great! But in the real world, the only way you get everything you want in politics, right now, without delay, is to have a revolution. Since no one seems to seriously want that, we have to work within the bounds of reality as it is, not how we want it to be. And the reality is, gradual change, pushed by loud demands for change, is how **** gets done. Keep proteating, KEEP demanding change and progress! But don't get in the way of the gradual work being done to support your continued right to protest just because it isn't moving fast enough for your taste.

Otherwise, you end up coming across as Veruca Salt, demanding what she wants now, and damn all consequences.

[Tendrin]

Revolutions tend to hurt the most vulnerable people a great deal. They're sexy, though, you know?

[Tazirai]

For sure. I think actual revolution is a pie in the sky fantasy. That's why it's an afterthought to my longer post. And it's why I went back and edited wording, to make that a bit more clear. It's a thing people talk about, but will never actually do, so lets focus on what has been proven to work instead of a fantasy that will never happen.

The left wing uprising fantasy is on the same level as the right wing militia fantasy of taking up arms against the gub'mint and winning. Both make the fantasizer feel good, neither accomplishes anything substantial, and neither has any concept of wha comes after.

Except that Revolutions have happened all through History, so not sure where' youre getting that from. I don't think The Zulu Uprising failed, nor the American Revolution, nor the Assyrian Uprisings, etc. Have some failed yes? There will be failures and victories. The Milita Fantasy is a fantasy. The left wing Political revolution is real.

[Kirby101]

You say you want a revolution, well you know we all want to change the world.

[numberthirty]

Revolutions tend to hurt the most vulnerable people a great deal. They're sexy, though, you know?

So does a garbage status quo that will only change even a little when politicians are afraid of losing a position that benefits them.