All-purpose news and politics thread: Two Steps Beyond!(Part II)

[catbellysqueezer]

MAN, you are so right. We haven't made any progress as a nation in a century. Not even a little.

OH WAIT...

I don't consider wages stagnating (or declining if you account for productivity and inflation), taxes on the wealthy greatly decreasing, steady deregulation of industry and banking, skyrocketing healthcare and education costs, outsourcing of jobs, rapid decline in union membership, and so on progress, but I guess if you consider Collin Peterson a suitable candidate you might.

[Tendrin]

I have health care that doesn't cost me thousands annually that I don't have but yeah sure no progress.

[numberthirty]

Let alone that framing it in "Century" terms will allow for progress that likely happened because of things that will be almost totally impossible to repeat.

[zinderel]

Women can vote, Black people can vote, gay people can get married, trans people are allowed to exist outside of freak shows and mental hospitals, unions exist, weekends exist, the 40 hour work week exists, maternity leave exists, we had a black president, we had a serious female candidate, we've got atheists and socialists and Muslims in positions of power around the country, we have female Supreme Court justices, we got the ACA, DADT was repealed, public schools and infrastructure got a huge boost thanks to socialist policies, abortion is legal and so on.

SURE, it's not all perfect, and sure, regressives in either party try to repeal and destroy these progressive wins at every opportunity when they win over their more progressive opponents, but I guess that if perfect is the goal and anything less is failure, the way some here seem to be saying, then I guess we really have accomplished nothing and made no progress and only people who garner a fraction of the electorate's support and the heroic loners who vote for them can save us...

OH WAIT...

[catbellysqueezer]

I have health care that doesn't cost me thousands annually that I don't have but yeah sure no progress.

We got a health care bill that fines people who can't afford insurance that even Obama admitted was an idea stolen from the conservative think-tank Heritage Foundation.

[catbellysqueezer]

Women can vote, Black people can vote, gay people can get married, trans people are allowed to exist outside of freak shows and mental hospitals, unions exist, weekends exist, the 40 hour work week exists, maternity leave exists, we had a black president, we had a serious female candidate, we've got atheists and socialists in congress/the senate, female Supreme Court justices, we have the ACA, DADT was repealed, abortion is legal and so on. SURE, it's not all perfect, and sure, regressives try to repeal and destroy these progressive wins, but I guess that if perfect is the goal and anything less is failure, the way some here seem to be saying, then I guess we really have accomplished nothing and made no progress and only people who garner a fraction of the electorate's support can save us...

OH WAIT...

And most, if not all of those accomplishments were made by people fighting for the perfect (e.g. black people not settling for segregation just because it is better than slavery).

[Jack Dracula]

Oh I heartily agree, but some people demand instant and unwavering adherence to their wishes in defiance of how reality works, and that behavior grated on me when I was babysitting and hasn't gotten any better with time.

Maybe we just all need to remember who the real enemy is and that we're all looking for the same fundamental changes in our society. The only actual differences are in the degree and expected amounts of time needed to accomplish our goals.

[Tendrin]

And most, if not all of those accomplishments were made by people fighting for the perfect (e.g. black people not settling for segregation just because it is better than slavery).

Has anyone suggested that people stop mobilizing?

Again: all that's been repeated, ad nauseum, despite all the strawmen and deflections you wanna toss out, is that a moderate Democrat who may be sympathetic and persuadeable to your aims as part of a governing coalition, is better than a Republican who is a solid vote against it.

You need a majority. It's all about having a majority.

[zinderel]

And most, if not all of those accomplishments were made by people fighting for the perfect (e.g. black people not settling for segregation just because it is better than slavery).

So fight. KEEP fighting. BUT...also try winning, once in a while. Try not running from blame when your actions help get a lunatic regressive elected and you get called out for it. Try not splitting the left by supporting people who win the primary, even when they aren't perfect. Try supporting people during the primary that you WANT, and support the winner in the general when you don't get 100% of your demands met instead of throwing a tantrum and tossing your vote at losers like Stein, Johnson, Nader, and so on.

You know...like people here have been actually saying, versus whatever fever fantasy you THINK we are saying.

[Tendrin]

So fight. KEEP fighting. BUT...also try winning, once in a while. Try not running from blame when your actions help get a lunatic regressive elected and you get called out for it. Try not splitting the left by supporting people who win the primary, even when they aren't perfect. Try supporting people during the primary that you WANT, and support the winner in the general when you don't get 100% of your demands met instead of throwing a tantrum and tossing your vote at losers like Stein, Johnson, Nader, and so on.

You know...like people here have been actually saying, versus whatever fever fantasy you THINK we are saying.

Exactly. Militancy is important. Fight like hell. Organize. Mobilize. Elect your candidates, but when you can't, make sure the worst doesn't happen. The lesser evil is still less evil.

[Dalak]

Maybe we just all need to remember who the real enemy is and that we're all looking for the same fundamental changes in our society. The only actual differences are in the degree and expected amounts of time needed to accomplish our goals.

It's an idealistic dream at this point as far as I can tell, but it's one I could get behind. I think of perfection as the ever-distant goal on the horizon like the end of a rainbow - A great thing to strive for even if it isn't ever attainable. It is a great spur for a society to progress, but it should never be used to impede it like a rabid gun nut saying that no potential gun law can ever be allowed because it doesn't go far enough and criminals would get guns anyway.

[catbellysqueezer]

Or you can vote for someone who actually agrees with you.

[numberthirty]

And most, if not all of those accomplishments were made by people fighting for the perfect (e.g. black people not settling for segregation just because it is better than slavery).

Never mind that unions paved the way for government to actually get around to doing the right thing later when it comes to at least two of those things.

[Dalak]

Has anyone suggested that people stop mobilizing?

Again: all that's been repeated, ad nauseum, despite all the strawmen and deflections you wanna toss out, is that a moderate Democrat who may be sympathetic and persuadeable to your aims as part of a governing coalition, is better than a Republican who is a solid vote against it.

You need a majority. It's all about having a majority.

So fight. KEEP fighting. BUT...also try winning, once in a while. Try not running from blame when your actions help get a lunatic regressive elected and you get called out for it. Try not splitting the left by supporting people who win the primary, even when they aren't perfect. Try supporting people during the primary that you WANT, and support the winner in the general when you don't get 100% of your demands met instead of throwing a tantrum and tossing your vote at losers like Stein, Johnson, Nader, and so on.

You know...like people here have been actually saying, versus whatever fever fantasy you THINK we are saying.

Exactly. Militancy is important. Fight like hell. Organize. Mobilize. Elect your candidates, but when you can't, make sure the worst doesn't happen. The lesser evil is still less evil.

I feel like we're all one of those masochistic monks from Monthy Python and the Holy Grail right now.

[numberthirty]

Never mind that Congress didn't iron out marriage equality.