All-purpose news and politics thread: Two Steps Beyond!(Part II)

[Tendrin]

Double post

[Tami]

Unless the Provisionals change things, it looks like Balderson edged out O'Connor, however, being a special election, this race will repeated again in November. Almost makes no sense to have a Special, since whoever wins will have to fight again to hold on to it.

[Tazirai]

Unless the Provisionals change things, it looks like Balderson edged out O'Connor, however, being a special election, this race will repeated again in November. Almost makes no sense to have a Special, since whoever wins will have to fight again to hold on to it.

Dude ran as a Milquetoast candidate.He should have run a better campaign.

Tonight Justice Democrats, founded a little less than two years ago is running pretty well. 5 Victories, 4 Defeats, and 4 races to go.

Brent Welder is doing well in Kansas 3rd District against the Establishment choice who came in at the last minute. But I'm going to bed. context tomorrow.

[Tendrin]

Dude ran as a Milquetoast candidate.

*siiiiiiiiigh*

Honestly, Taz.

For a long time, whenever a conservative lost for his extremism, we heard 'he wasn't conservative enough' as the excuse. You've been reminding me of that for a while.

[zinderel]

Had a talk with my dad today. He's a pretty hardcore Republican, but not a Trump fan. He listens to Right Wing talk radio outlets like Mike Fuckabee and Lars Larson and the like, and owns several Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Michele Malkin and David Barton books, so...

Anyway, we were talking about the Manafort trial, and he was rolling his eyes at the Russia stuff - much like it seems the judge is - and I mentioned that the 'Russia stuff' is important because it proves that Manafort was taking money from Russian operatives and laundering it, and since he was Trump's campaign manager, that raises a lot of questions. He says that if Trump goes down, then they better damn make sure to take down Obama and Clinton. I look at him for a second, and say, "Uh...for what?" So he brings up the old saws about Benghazi and emails, and Whitewater and Marc Rich. So I remind him that Republicans have been trying to get her for over 30 years and never gotten a thing, which means one of two things - Either she is a brilliant supervillain on par with Norman Osborne (In which case, why isn't she President right now...?) or...there just isn't any THERE there...

So he pivots. "What do you think of that Democrat senator...Elizabeth...Elizabeth Warren. She wants to tax the rich at FIFTY PERCENT. Is she trying to kill America?! We should have a flat tax rate that's the same for everyone!"

I took a moment, collected my thoughts, and said, "Good, but it's not enough. We SHOULD go back to taxing the rich at the rate we did under FDR, post WW2. After all, if I make $1,000 a year, and you make $100,000,000, and we are both taxed, let's say....50%. Who takes a bigger hit?"

Dad: "Well, the rich guy! He loses more money!"
Me: "No...*sigh* He still has $50 million, I now have $500. I took a bigger blow."
Dad: "Why do you leftists hate rich people getting to keep the money they work for?"
Me: "Because most of them didn't DO any work! They got rich off of the backs of people like you and me, working our ASSES off to survive while they sit on piles of money! They don't spend it on anything that stimulates the economy! They don't create jobs, because creating jobs means less money for them!"
Dad: "If liberals get their way, you know what'll happen? The rich will leave America and take their money with them! Then where will we be!"
Me: "GOOD! Let them flee! Where are they gonna go? Russia?! Why should we let the rich continue holding America hostage and blackmail us into continuing to suck their dicks and thanking them for the privilege!?"
Dad: "You sound like you want a civil war! You know who'll win, right? The side with all the guns. And which side is that again...?"
Me: "So, in addition to financially blackmailing us, gaslighting us, and holding us fjnancially hostage to their mands, the rich are threatening us with violence from their thugs if we don't give them everything they want? And you think this is OK?!"
Dad: "Ok, I'm done with this conversation."
Me: "Fine. But lemme just say...I don't WANT a civil war in this country. But maybe we NEED one. Like how I didn't want Trump to win the Presidency because...well, I've paid attention and knew what kind of man he is and was able to extrapolate from that to predict what kind of president he would be, but maybe his presidency is one we NEEDED to wake people up. And maybe a civil war, or a French Revolution style uprising is what we NEED right now to remind people where the power belongs: with us, the people, not them, the wealthy."

So...fucking Republicans, man. Even when they're on our side about Trump, they would still happily kill us or see us dead to maintain the income gap that they think they have a chance of breaching.

"The reason socialism never took root in America is because the poor have been convinced they are merely temporarily inconvenienced millionaires."

[JCAll]

I feel like the idea that the Second Amendment exists to overthrow a corrupt government is starting to die off.
Apparently it was there to keep the poor in line all along. Who knew...

[Tazirai]

*siiiiiiiiigh*

Honestly, Taz.

For a long time, whenever a conservative lost for his extremism, we heard 'he wasn't conservative enough' as the excuse. You've been reminding me of that for a while.

He really did run a Milque toast campaign. The problem with Conservatives is different than Democrats. They try to out Strongman/woman each other. Democrats don't go left, they go center right. There is no if and's or buts about them.
Tonight i'm not trying to be Lefty mcLefty. But dude should have demolished the Republican. Have you looked at his ads?

They were the "Safest" Ads I've seen Since Davids in Kansas District 3. Why is it so hard to be a forceful and unabashed Liberal for these guys? What they've been doing isn't working.

Try something new. There will never be a good time to try something different if nobody tries anything different.

[numberthirty]

He really did run a Milque toast campaign. The problem with Conservatives is different than Democrats. They try to out Strongman/woman each other. Democrats don't go left, they go center right. There is no if and's or buts about them.
Tonight i'm not trying to be Lefty mcLefty. But dude should have demolished the Republican. Have you looked at his ads?

They were the "Safest" Ads I've seen Since Davids in Kansas District 3. Why is it so hard to be a forceful and unabashed Liberal for these guys? What they've been doing isn't working.

Try something new. There will never be a good time to try something different if nobody tries anything different.

Earlier, someone was discussing that the Green Party vote might wind up being almost equal to the difference that the Republican could(emphasis on "Could" at this point) wind up winning by.

What do you think is going to happen when you are essentially running just right of center? How do you expect to appeal to even the most sympathetic Green Party voters if that is the approach?

[Tendrin]

Could a better candidate have pulled it off? Sure, that's possible.

However, a better candidate does not necessarily equate a 'more progressive' one in that district.

[BeastieRunner]

Howdy gang! Sorry for the split update. Here's the final trial notes. It was 113 today and knocked our power out till now. Between forum issues and that, I couldn't finish till now.

The REAL final PM day 6 Manafort notes:

After a 30 minute break, judge admonishes defense for attempting to coerce a witness into giving information about another case.

Judge reminded them that it will have repercussions after this trial is over, whether they win or lose.

Judge said up to disbarment.

Defense resumed questioning.

Gates agreed that if he had been indicted in the Eastern District of Virginia on bank and tax fraud charges, he would have faced a “quite significant” sentence, “in excess of 50 to 100 years.”

Defense stated that it was up to 290 years.

Defense asked about Vegas trips.

Gates said he did spend firm money on those things but that he did not believe it came from offshore accounts.

The Vegas trips were for his movie production venture, not for fun.

Gates said he wrote a false letter claiming his company would be investing a large sum of money in his friend Steve Brown’s movie project, as a favor.

Gates acknowledged receiving a letter from the SEC about an investigation into insider trading as part of his position on the board of an identity-theft protection firm called ID Watchdog.

Gates stated he did not retain a lawyer at that point, nor was he told by the special counsel that he might be prosecuted.

Defense went back to asking wiring offshore money to his company.

Gates testified that he would at times use the same process to cause banks to wire money from an account belonging to Manafort to a company controlled by Gates himself.

Gates testified that he submitted a false invoice for “professional services” to an offshore bank to get it to transfer $65k from Global Endeavor Inc. into a company called Jemina, and from there into Gates’s own account.

Gates submitted a false invoice to cause Global Endeavor to transfer $125k into a different company called Bade LLC, which Gates also controlled.

Gates tripped up as he explained the reason for these transfers, repeatedly agreeing that some of the money was unauthorized but also that some was to reimburse him for business expenses, and some were bonuses from Manafort.

“I was, in essence, living beyond my means.”

“I regret it, clearly. I’m taking responsibility for it. I made a mistake.”

Defense: “Was it for your secret life?”

Gates: “It’s not a secret life. It went to an account my wife knew about.”

Gates and the defense began to argue.

Gates compared his situation directly with that of Manafort's, suggesting that he had taken responsibility for his actions, while Manafort has not.

“At Mr. Manafort’s request, he asked me not to disclose the other foreign bank accounts.”

Defense then asked Gates about the records he had to support his assertions about Manafort.

Gates stated that “a lot of our communication occurred verbally,” though he asserted that there as a “strong record” to support his account of conversations the 2 men had.

“After all the lies you’ve told and fraud you’ve committed, you expect this jury to believe you?” Gates affirmed.

“I’m here to tell the truth. Mr. Manafort had the same path. I’m here.”

Gates added later that he had “accepted responsibility.”

“I’m trying to change.”

Gates said Manafort kept a close eye on his financial affairs.

"Mr. Manafort in my opinion kept fairly frequent updates.”

A discussion of movement between their consulting firm’s offshore accounts occurred with the defense.

“Mr. Manafort was very good at knowing where the money was and where it was going.”

Judge: “He didn’t know about the money you were stealing, so he didn’t do it that closely.”

Defense challenged Gates on his acceptance of responsibility, pointing out that he has not repaid the money he stole from Manafort.

“I spent it over the years.”

-----------------------

A couple of things ... that's the THIRD TIME this trial that the defense as attempted to get a sworn-in witness to divulge information about the criminal case against Manafort and Trump.

Defense went into overdrive trying to prove Gates was a liar but he was corroborated by every single witnesses story AND the paper trails.

Who gets a notary to sign documents that they forged? Only Manafort did that. What a dumbass.

We got a glimpse into the gravity this will have for the rest of Team Trump ... nearly 300 years of prison for most of them.

I think Manafort will be found guilty on 3/5 counts of fraud and 2/3 conspiracy charges. That's 120 years.

[numberthirty]

Could a better candidate have pulled it off? Sure, that's possible.

However, a better candidate does not necessarily equate a 'more progressive' one in that district.

While I cannot prove it, I suspect that those Green Party voters were looking for a more progressive candidate. Never mind the votes that were not cast because the difference between the big two was not particularly stark.

[Tendrin]

While I cannot prove it, I suspect that those Green Party voters were looking for a more progressive candidate. Never mind the votes that were not cast because the difference between the big two was not particularly stark.

They may have. On the other hand, sacrificing who knows how many votes from more conservative democrats in a more conservative district to court 1k green party voters doesn't make a lot of sense. You can't assume a more progressive candidate would keep all of the votes he got.

His mistakes, like swinging off to Greece for two weeks, had little to do with his platform anyway.

[numberthirty]

They may have. On the other hand, sacrificing who knows how many votes from more conservative democrats in a more conservative district to court 1k green party voters doesn't make a lot of sense. You can't assume a more progressive candidate would keep all of the votes he got.

His mistakes, like swinging off to Greece for two weeks, had little to do with his platform anyway.

There is quite a bit of assumption in a scenario where you lose a costly amount of more conservative Democrats but gain only, maybe, one thousand Green Party votes. Never mind that folks don't seem to have any problem with pinning the blame on them even though you've done next to nothing to go after their votes.

As for that scenario, I'd say it doesn't really account for...

- Potential Democrats That You Could Have Got Out To Vote By Running Just Left Of Center
- That Those Green Party Voters Were Probably Not The Entirety Of Potential "Left" Votes That Were Not Really Tapped Into.

[JackDaw]

Try something new. There will never be a good time to try something different if nobody tries anything different.

The problem with leftwing in UK is really that...they seem to have given up on any really radical change.

The last fundamental leftwing change was possibly the creation of the National Health Service, about 70 years ago.

Since then the successful Labour governments (defined purely in terms of winning elections) have just tinkered with the overall system, aiming to make small improvements..that was just about the stated policy of the Blair governments.

The problem, of course, is that it’s difficult to make fundamental improvements. It’s easy to say “overall distribution of wealth is unfair” (it is!)...far harder to make practical changes that actually do result in a fairer society.

[JackDaw]

Try something new. There will never be a good time to try something different if nobody tries anything different.

The problem with leftwing in UK is really that...they seem to have given up on any really radical change.

The last fundamental leftwing change was possible the creation of the National Health Service, about 70 years ago.

Since then the successful Labour governments (defined purely in terms of winning elections) have just tinkered with the overall system, aiming to make small improvements..that was just about the stated policy of the Blair governments.

The problem, of course, is that it’s difficult to make fundamental improvements. It’s easy to say “overall distribution of wealth is unfair” (it is!)...far harder to make practical changes that actually do result in a fairer society.