All-purpose news and politics thread: Two Steps Beyond!(Part II)

[Moon Ronin]

I don't think that that is true. There are millions of people that are United States citizens as a result of, not just undocumented immigrants, but legal residents of the United States. If we end birthright citizenship and only extend legal citizenship to those who have at least one parent who is a United States citizen (current naturalization law at works for being born abroad--why Ted Cruz could've potentially been president in spite of his Canadian birth), that places these people in legal limbo. They don't really have a country to go back to (ostensibly their parents are no longer really citizens of that country, as most here with green cards are pursuing citizenship) but are no longer citizens here. Furthermore, how does this situation really work for children of now-citizens who had them while they were merely legal residents? Do these children then have to pursue citizenship tests of their own? Trump obviously would like to make this retroactive--how does that work for people who have now been employed and work in our economic marketplace with legal protections of citizens with all the rights of citizenship? Is it going to be proactive in nature? What separates being born on American soil from being born abroad.

May not be the the case. In the United States v. Wong Kim Ark it was ruled that persons born to persons that are not citizens but are domiciled and working in the country legally (legal residents) are citizens of the US under the 14th amendment. An executive order from a president cannot over turn a Supreme Court ruling. That case would cover any children born here while there parents are or were green card holders. The supreme court has never really held a case where it was a child of some one here illegally so this is here the lines get blurry as the present idea of jus soli has not really been challenged for over 100 years. Trump can technically define his policy on "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" of the 14th amendment to say that people here illegally are not completely subject to the jurisdiction i.e they can't get picked for jury duty or drafted in the military service thus their children cannot be born citizens. This ,of course, will be suspended and challenged in court and we'll just have to see how it plays out there. I also would not think that the order would be ex post facto as that would be a logistic nightmare.

[BeastieRunner]

I agree, however, if it was possible to sneak a peak at Miller's innermost dreams, I wouldn't be surprised if he sees himself that way.

Oh, most definitely. And probably with toothbrush 'stache, too.

[BeastieRunner]

“Birthright citizenship is guaranteed by the Fourteenth Amendment. That birthright is protected no less for children of undocumented persons than for descendants of Mayflower passengers. Opponents of illegal immigration cannot claim to champion the rule of law and then, in the same breath, propose policies that violate our Constitution.” -- Judge James C. Ho, appointed by President Donald J. Trump September 28, 2017 to the United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit.

Yeah, I don't think Trump is going to win this one either. He's got other judges HE appointed already telling him, LOL nope. Rule of Law, buddy ...

[Mister Mets]

You mean the ones who said that a corporation is a person and money is speech? They're capable of anything. They just need an adequate justification in their minds.

Corporate personhood is an old concept dating back to medieval times (the Catholic Church might be the first organization that bought and old property in its own name.) Later, there were advantages for the American economy when corporations had transferability of shares and continued, perpetual existence. The applications of the 14th Amendment to corporations were about ensuring equal treatment under tax law, and ensure that the officers of the corporation don't lose constitutional protections (IE- against unreasonable search and seizure.)

https://www.npr.org/2014/07/28/33528...egal-evolution

There are certainly legal arguments that limitations on how non-profits can spend money to get a message across serve as restrictions on speech. Citizens United was ultimately about restrictions on a non-profit that wanted to release a video critical of a political candidate.

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/15/w...otus.html?_r=0

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/16/u...ics/16ads.html

Birthright citizenship is on much firmer basis.

I'm gonna laugh when this ends with a bunch of people like Trump, Miller, etc. getting deported. Do they not realize that they're not citizens by their own weird ass definition?

This makes several leaps from an announcement by Trump that currently has no legal authority.

He would have to create an executive order that removes citizenship from people who already have it, it would have to apply to children of legal immigrants, and this would have to be agreed to by the courts. Neither seems likely.

[BeastieRunner]

This makes several leaps from an announcement by Trump that currently has no legal authority.

He would have to create an executive order that removes citizenship from people who already have it, it would have to apply to children of legal immigrants, and this would have to be agreed to by the courts. Neither seems likely.

Little slow on the uptake here. Already quoted one of the 11 judges that have commented on it, all Trump appointees.

[JCAll]

Gonna throw out an idea - I think Stephen Miller sees himself as an early Vladimir Putin By this, I mean he sees himself as the man behind the power who is planning on overthrowing the government and undermining democracy then he'll take over.

The way I'm starting to think, I don't think Trump is the alt-Right's guy. They want him to be, he says all the right things, gets everyone fired up, but for all his bad decisions and his raging egomania he doesn't actually do much. He's a gutless wonder, his egomania seems to actually make him care what people think about him, that's why he spends all day self-aggrandizing on Twitter. He's not the tyrant the fascist wing of the party is looking for. If things keep going the way they are now, the NEXT Republican president is going to be a @#$%ing monster.

Maybe Stephen Miller is setting himself up to be that guy.

[BeastieRunner]

Kayne is no longer a Trumper Humper.

He saw the light.

[Raiders]

President Idiot thinks he can change the U.S. Constitution by an executive order?
If SCOTUS let him do this, then America as we know it is gone.

[mathew101281]

The way I'm starting to think, I don't think Trump is the alt-Right's guy. They want him to be, he says all the right things, gets everyone fired up, but for all his bad decisions and his raging egomania he doesn't actually do much. He's a gutless wonder, his egomania seems to actually make him care what people think about him, that's why he spends all day self-aggrandizing on Twitter. He's not the tyrant the fascist wing of the party is looking for. If things keep going the way they are now, the NEXT Republican president is going to be a @#$%ing monster.

Maybe Stephen Miller is setting himself up to be that guy.

Not sure a fringe candidate like Trump would be able to win again. It took a lot of incidental things for him to become a legit candidate this time. He took advantage of the fact that their were so many candidates running. In that kind of environment the extremist usually win because the more moderate voices tend to have their voices divided up between them. I have the belief that their are a lot of people in the GOP that hate Trump, and wouldn’t be in a hurry have his rise repeated. Don’t be supprised if they don’t put measures in place to prove my this in the future. The Dems did a similar thing years back, when they thought they were getting candidates that were to liberal.

[Tami]

In North Dakota, Native Americans Try to Turn an ID Law to Their Advantage

FORT YATES, N.D. — Nobody in the squat yellow house serving as the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe’s get-out-the-vote headquarters knew its address.

It was on Red Tail Hawk Avenue; they knew that much. But the number was anyone’s guess. Phyllis Young, a longtime tribal activist leading the voter-outreach effort, said it had fallen off the side of the house at some point. Her own home has a number only because she added one with permanent marker.

This is normal on Native American reservations. Buildings lack numbers; streets lack signs. Even when a house has an address in official records, residents don’t necessarily know what it is.

[Jack Dracula]

What makes you think we are at a bottom?

I'm aware that the situation may worsen, which is why I stress caution and careful research.
Overall, despite the short-term ups and downs, the markets favor an upward trend. Investing is a long-term undertaking and should be approached as such.

A big Bear is due and Trump is doing his best to crash the economy.

There will undoubtedly be a correction eventually. The key to weathering the down-turns is diversity and investing conservatively in a reputable, tax deferred IRA. You can adjust your portfolio after the storm has passed.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Kayne is no longer a Trumper Humper.

He saw the light.

Welcome to the club, homie. All it took was for West to get suckered by Trump and his cronies like everyone else.

President Idiot thinks he can change the U.S. Constitution by an executive order?
If SCOTUS let him do this, then America as we know it is gone.

Should the Supremes subvert the Constitution to kiss up to Trump, there would be rioting in the streets. Even the cowardly Republicans in Congress would grow a collective pair and tell Dolt45 to pound sand.

[Tendrin]

So timeline on twitter is full of people talking about the president's sycophantic fan, Jacob Wohl. Apparently, Whol tried to fabricate a tale of Robert Mueller sexually assaulting women as part of an effort to discredit the Mueller investigation only to have it backfire spectacularly. The whole matter has now been referred to the FBI and the special counsel for reals.

Yikes.

[Tami]

So timeline on twitter is full of people talking about the president's sycophantic fan, Jacob Wohl. Apparently, Whol tried to fabricate a tale of Robert Mueller sexually assaulting women as part of an effort to discredit the Mueller investigation only to have it backfire spectacularly. The whole matter has now been referred to the FBI and the special counsel for reals.

Yikes.

Yikes? More like eyeroll. This is like bringing a water pistol to a machine gun fight. This guy, Wohl, is beyond dumb.

[Tendrin]

Yikes? More like eyeroll. This is like bringing a water pistol to a machine gun fight. This guy, Wohl, is beyond dumb.

Oh, he's definitely a moron. There are so many great threads on this guy now and it's just killing me. Dude is in deep doodoo. xD