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  1. #751
    Extraordinary Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catbellysqueezer View Post
    You guys would know about circles, making sure progressives will never win by telling everyone they shouldn't vote for them because they will never win.
    Apparently, it's also 'declare people said things they never said'.

    I voted for Benrie in the primary and vote for a raft of progressive leaning candidates in every primary. My Senator are pretty solid guys in Wyden and Merkley, and I have a pretty solid, if imperfect, governor along with a decent congressman.

    Nobody is saying 'don't support progressives' if they win their primaries, nor saying 'don't vote for them in the general'. We've been over this, but apparently, it needs to be stated again.

    What we /are/ saying is 'be practical in the general if your preferred candidate doesn't win a primary'. If a progressive I like wins the primary, I vote for them. If a more conservative dem I don't like wins the primary, I vote for them. I don't vote Green because the Green party is a joke party. I don't abstain from voting because there are vulnerable people who are likely to be disproportionately hurt by a Republican winning the election as opposed to things simply not improving fast enough.

    Be practical, bear in mind our common interests, and don't piss away gains made because you'd prefer the perfect candidate you think you're entitled to.
    Last edited by Tendrin; 08-16-2018 at 05:59 AM.

  2. #752

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    On this date, in both 2014, as well as in 2015, "Crazy/Stupid Republican of the Day" profiled former New York Congressman Michael Grimm, who was sentenced to eight months in prison for 20 separate charges of fraud in running the New York health food restaurant Healthalicious, which was a decidedly sore subject considering when asked about it by a reporter in Washington, at one point, Rep. Grimm threatened to throw the guy off a balcony and ďbreak him like a boyĒ. With those two factors alone (not that there weren't others), Grimm's political career seemed like it was over. But alas, Michael Grimm decided upon being released from prison to try and reclaim his old Congressional seat from Daniel Donovan. Grimm went right back to his old tricks, being slapped with an ethics complaint for having a former Trump campaign staffer working on his election campaign for free (thatís a no-no), trying to claim Dan Donovan offered to speak to Donald Trump and get him a presidential pardon if he dropped out of the race, and that baseless desperation meant he would go on to lose to Donovan by about a 2 to 1 margin. We think (and hope) this time heís really gone for good.




    In both 2016, and in 2017, that ďCrazy/Stupid Republican of the DayĒ presented our original profile of the U.S. House Representative for New Yorkís 11th Congressional District, Dan Donovan, which is pretty remarkable considering Dan Donovan ditched out on the debates for the election in 2014, and was the district attorney who dragged his feet when tasked with bringing charges against the police officers who were caught on camera using a banned chokehold to attempt to subdue Eric Garner for the crime of selling loose cigarettes, and managed to choke him to death. In spite of digging in for police brutality, and going with the cowardly choice to let the death of Garner stand uncharged, Donovan earned the right to fulfill the role of being Staten Island's newest douchebag in Congress. Of course, looking the other way is something Donovan developed a bit of a reputation for, what with discussions as far back as 2010 in the Village Voice documented how he often failed to act against members of the Genovese crime family, when they operated illegal enterprises virtually right under his nose.

    And wouldn't you know it? Once he got to Washington, D.C., Donovan has racked up a completely partisan record, trying to defund Planned Parenthood, pass 20-week abortion bans, restrict the relocation of refugees fleeing Syria, and an attempt to repeal the Affordable Care Act. He hasnít changed much in his second term in office:

    • March 28th, 2017: Rep. Donovan votes for SJ Res 34, which allowed internet providers to sell the data information of their customers' internet usage to businesses. Well, so much for privacy.
    • June 8th, 2017: Donovan votes for HR 10, the GOPís attempt to repeal Dodd-Frank financial reform, because what the country really needs is to allow the big banks to make the same mistakes that imploded the economy only a decade earlier.
    • October 3rd, 2017: Donovan votes for HR 36, the Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act, that would try to create an unconstitutional ban abortion at 20 weeks (even though medical science tells us fetuses do not have the capability to feel pain until 29 weeks).
    • December 19th, 2017: Daniel Donovan votes for HR 1, the GOPís $1.7 trillion tax cut to benefit the wealthiest Americans and corporations permanently that coincidentally also removes the Affordable Care Actís individual mandate and kicks 13 million people off their health insurance.
    • February 18th, 2018: Donovan and his fellow Republicans decide that poor big businesses are suffering too much at the hands of the Americans with Disabilities Act too much, and vote for HR 620, which would strip most of the civil rights protections guaranteed by it.


    New York's 11th District only has a +2 Republican lean in the Cook Partisan Voting Index and pundits wondered how Democrats have not managed to wrest the last bastion Republicans hold in New York City away from the GOP. Especially because critics have been not disavowing Donald Trump, who most New Yorkers are quite familiar with. But heís not stupid, he knows he doesnít have enough of a gerrymander carved out in his district and thus voted against the American Healthcare Act, one of only a handful of House Republicans who thought kicking 24 million Americans off their health insurance might have repercussions. Thatís probably at least part of the reason that Michael Grimm, fresh out of prison, decided to challenge Dan Donovan for his seat in the U.S. Congress, because he wasnít ďTrump enoughĒ. And, Grimm went with a strategy you wonít see used in many political races, because people who went to prison usually donít mount comebacks. Grimm started put by pointing out that Donovan got his domestic partnerís son out of going to jail on heroin charges, and then when that still didnít help him enough in the polls, started trying to claim Dan Donovan offered to speak to Donald Trump and get him a presidential pardon if he dropped out of the race, and that baseless desperation meant Grimm would go on to lose to Donovan by about a 2 to 1 margin. However, any primary challenge still means that an incumbent has to spend effort, energy, and campaign cash in a primary.

    And now, itís the general election, and Dan Donovan is trying, and failing to come back to the center. Heís been endorsed by Donald Trump himself. Michael Grimm accused him of involvement in two major scandals. Heís also getting hit by his abysmal record on womenís rights in an election year where the vote isnít just trending blue, but more women are turning out to the polls than they have in years.

    So did the Democrats just find some schlub to run against Donovan? AW HELL NO. Max Rose not only has a great name, heís a veteran of Afghanistan who during his service earned a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart. Since returning, heís worked in healthcare and addiction services, which the latter skill set kind of makes him more than qualified to speak to an issue that voters these days really want addressed, the opioid crisis.

    In other words, New Yorkís 11th looks like itís going to be one of the most likely seats to flip blue in November, and we sure wonít be feeling sorry for Dan Donovan about it.
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  3. #753
    What fresh hell is this? ChadH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catbellysqueezer View Post
    You guys would know about circles, making sure progressives will never win by telling everyone they shouldn't vote for them because they will never win.
    What people are actually telling you is to vote for either a Democrat or Progressive candidate who has an actual chance of winning.

    That is all.
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  4. #754
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Excellent story, Tami. IMO that's what this is all going to boil down too. Trump was shut out at the major financial institutions in the U.S after his near billion dollar bankruptcy. The term "The Donald Risk" was coined as a reference to his bankruptcies and failures to pay off loans. Jared was also starting to have problems related to getting financing. He and Trump have gone to Deutsche Bank for finanacing and Trump even has had problems there and struggled paying back a $640 million dollar loan with Deutsche Bank

    Now here are the intesting parts from that article:

    • Trump once told The New York Times he considers investigating his and his family’s finances “a red line” and “a violation”, but Mueller has not stopped looking into the Trump Organization.


    • One move in particular seemed to trigger an outsized response: After multiple outlets reported that Mueller had subpoenaed Deutsche Bank’s records on Trump’s accounts, Trump reportedly attempted to fire Mueller, only to pull back when Mueller’s team told him those reporters were inaccurate. A U.S. official has, however, told Reuters that Mueller is investigating whether Deutsche Bank may have sold Trump Organization debts to sanctioned Russian banks. (Neither Deutsche Bank nor the Russian banks contacted by Reuters commented on whether such a transaction was made.)
    So chances are Trump owes money to Russians...big time. And he's doing their bidding. If the pee tapes exists that would be extra insurance that he will obey.

  5. #755
    Guardian Empress of Earth Tami's Avatar
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    Omarosa releases secret tape of Lara Trump offering her $15K/month campaign job

    Omarosa Manigault Newman, the former reality TV star who became a top White House aide to President Donald Trump, on Thursday released exclusively to MSNBC a secret tape of campaign official Lara Trump offering her a $15,000-a-month job after she was fired from the administration.

    The tape — which, according to Manigault Newman was made on December 16, 2017, just days after she left her White House job — appears to corroborate claims she made in her new book about receiving an offer from the president's re-election campaign. Manigault Newman wrote in her book that the job offer came with the condition of signing a non-disclosure agreement; she said she did not accept it.
    In an interview with MSNBC's Craig Melvin following the airing of the excerpts, Manigault Newman said the recording was proof of "an attempt" by the Trump team "to buy my silence, to censor me, and to pay me off."

    Asked by Melvin if she saw it as "hush money," Manigault Newman responded, "Absolutely."
    "And that all the money that we raise and that pays salaries is directly from donors, small-dollar donors for the most part. So, I know you, you were making 179 at the White House. And I think we can work something out where we keep you right along those lines," Trump continues. "Specifically, let me see, I haven't even added up the numbers. But we were talking about, like, 15K a month. Let me see what that adds up to. Times 12. Yeah."

    "So that's $180,000. Does that sound like a fair deal for you?" Trump is heard saying.
    Using political donations as 'Hush Money' is possibly illegal.
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  6. #756
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post
    Omarosa releases secret tape of Lara Trump offering her $15K/month campaign job






    Using political donations as 'Hush Money' is possibly illegal.
    Not possibly illegal. Totally illegal.
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

  7. #757
    What fresh hell is this? ChadH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post
    Omarosa releases secret tape of Lara Trump offering her $15K/month campaign job






    Using political donations as 'Hush Money' is possibly illegal.
    I suspect their main objective was to get her signature on the NDA.
    The Cover Contest Weekly Winners Thread So much winning!!

    "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
    "Being politically incorrect shouldn't be a matter of pride. It's the last gasp of the wrong side of history." - Unknown
    "By all means, compare these s**t-heads to Nazis." - Mike Godwin referring to the protesters in Charlottesville.

  8. #758
    Incredible Member Adset's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    Apparently, it's also 'declare people said things they never said'.

    I voted for Benrie in the primary and vote for a raft of progressive leaning candidates in every primary. My Senator are pretty solid guys in Wyden and Merkley, and I have a pretty solid, if imperfect, governor along with a decent congressman.

    Nobody is saying 'don't support progressives' if they win their primaries, nor saying 'don't vote for them in the general'. We've been over this, but apparently, it needs to be stated again.

    What we /are/ saying is 'be practical in the general if your preferred candidate doesn't win a primary'. If a progressive I like wins the primary, I vote for them. If a more conservative dem I don't like wins the primary, I vote for them. I don't vote Green because the Green party is a joke party. I don't abstain from voting because there are vulnerable people who are likely to be disproportionately hurt by a Republican winning the election as opposed to things simply not improving fast enough.

    Be practical, bear in mind our common interests, and don't piss away gains made because you'd prefer the perfect candidate you think you're entitled to.
    you think Merk is going to run in 2020? his campaign against gordon smith in 08 was brutal. he's always seemed like a guy who would relish standing up to trump.

  9. #759
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    *Oregon fistbump*
    Quote Originally Posted by zinderel View Post
    Hey! *Fist bump back*
    Another Oregonian here! *double fist bump*
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  10. #760
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adset View Post
    you think Merk is going to run in 2020? his campaign against gordon smith in 08 was brutal. he's always seemed like a guy who would relish standing up to trump.
    Merkley is definitely running. He spends half his time in Iowa and New Hampshire.
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  11. #761
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    Great story in The Atlantic:

    How to Discuss the Far Right Without Empowering It - A lesson from Germany

    What happens when you do a prime-time interview with a far-right leader—but don’t ask them anything about refugees?
    "How does the Green Goblin have anything to do with Herpes?" - The Dying Detective

    Hillary was right!

  12. #762
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    Quote Originally Posted by catbellysqueezer View Post
    The majority of Americans support higher minimum wages, higher taxes on the rich, universal health care, and many other progressive ideas, so if every American decided to vote for a candidate that represents their opinions, we would have all of those things tomorrow.

    But instead we have every progressive in the country going around telling other progressives that progressives have no chance of winning contrary to what polling says.
    I asked for a realistic solution that does not involve voting for Democrats, not pure fantasy.

  13. #763
    Guardian Empress of Earth Tami's Avatar
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    Let me jump into this fray. There are only three choices currently

    1. Republicans retain control over Congress, which means that Trump will be President at least until 2024, longer of the Republicans change things so that a President can have a lifetime in Office [don't think they wouldn't consider it].

    2. Democrats take control over Congress and actually run Congress the way it was meant to be run, as a check on Trump's power. Which includes letting Mueller complete his investigation, which might lead to impeachment.

    3. Trump does something so insane that even his Base turns against him, and as his Base goes so goes Republicans in Congress. Considering what they have tolerated so far, that red line would have to be pretty extreme.

    Each of those three options put the power in the hands of the people, the voters.

    You can vote for whomever you want, but in the end it boils down to these three possibilities.
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  14. #764
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4saken1 View Post
    Exactly. Simple math escapes these people. Candidate A has a 50% chance of winning and supports 0% of the policies you believe in. Candidate B has a 50% chance of winning and supports 80% of the policies you believe in. Candidate C has 0% chance of winning, but supports 100% of the policies you believe in. Knowing that voting for candidate B will increase their chances of winning by thousands of times more than the same would for candidate C, the choice seems obvious to anybody who got passed basic math. I've often wondered how many statisticians or math majors out there are on board with voting Green. Probably not many!
    Sure if you use made up numbers like that. It's more like one candidate who would have had a 50% chance to win who had 90% of policies I believed in so that someone else could have that same 50% to win who supports maybe 50% of policies I believe in but like the Republican supports another 50% of policies I despise. Oh and the 50% chance to win is entirely contingent on people like me ignoring all of that so they can win, otherwise the party is set up so they have no shot if people don't fall in line

  15. #765
    Fantastic Member catbellysqueezer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    I asked for a realistic solution that does not involve voting for Democrats, not pure fantasy.
    Yeah, people voting for candidates who actually represent their beliefs is a pretty crazy idea when you have half a party telling itself that it can't possibly win.
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